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Using a pressure cooker (PC) Options
 
benzyme
#21 Posted : 8/24/2012 5:07:17 AM

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use jars with lids loosely held in place with aluminum foil (similar to sterilizing substrate).
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SnozzleBerry
#22 Posted : 8/24/2012 2:59:07 PM

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aetherbound wrote:
Please be careful with pressure cookers. Don't used powdered MHRB as it could clog the relief valve. Thats why you cant pressure cook beans, the hulls can come off and clog it. then kablooey..

What benz said...

Whether with powdered bark or with beans, put 'em in a jar and cover with a loose lid; whether you use foil, or a ring that's only screwed partway down, it keeps your material in the jar and prevents any valve issues.

Half-gallon mason jars are great if your pressure cooker is big enough. They hold a bunch of material and water and save on time spent cleaning your pc.
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Explorateur
#23 Posted : 11/21/2016 9:13:55 AM

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This sticky topic talks about putting a glass jar inside a pressure cooker.
But putting the plant material and an acidified solution straight in the pressure cooker works also, isn't it ?
 
ijahdan
#24 Posted : 11/21/2016 10:15:11 AM

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I always just put shredded bark or shredded vine straight in and cover with acidified water. Works fine. I do have a stainless steel cooker though. Wouldnt use an aluminium one with acid solutions as the aluminium will dissolve in your solution. Ingesting aluminium has been linked to serious health issues, including alzheimers.

Using powdered material would probably cause your steam vent to block up, so stick to shredded bark and stainless steel cooker if you dont want to use jars.
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#25 Posted : 11/21/2016 11:07:50 AM

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Here in Central Europe personally I haven't seen any aluminum dishes in stores since the late 80s. There was this huge scare about aluminum leaching into food, I think mainly due to the protective oxide layer getting dissolved by acidic foods. Nobody I know uses aluminum cookware since, really.
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Brennendes Wasser
#26 Posted : 7/24/2018 12:05:46 PM

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Quote:
This sticky topic talks about putting a glass jar inside a pressure cooker.
But putting the plant material and an acidified solution straight in the pressure cooker works also, isn't it ?



I also want to post this question.


As far as I understand you put water in the bottom of the cooker and in that jars you ONLY put the plant material.

Is this true?

Then after cooking there is a tiny amount of water in each jar and this is what will be your aqueous extraction soup?



Well I only rarely do extractions, but then to a large amount.

I guess 500 g of Mimosa will not be able to be placed within Jars in a regular 5 - 6 L PC.


Therefore I also need to know the answer to the above question:

Can I just place my 500 g Mimosa FULLY COVERED in HCl-Soup at pH 3 in a stainless steel PC and cook the hell out of it?

I guess the Bark has to be at least fully covered ... but that will be like 3 L of acidic water and therefore about 50 % Volume of a 5 - 6 L PC. Will this be a problem?


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Rock.0
#27 Posted : 12/18/2019 10:53:45 PM

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Does using a PC completely eliminate the need to reduce the acidic liquid down before basification? Given that you'd be using a lot less water (in a jar) than in a whole pot. Or would you still need to do that?

Thanks Smile
 
benzyme
#28 Posted : 12/19/2019 2:50:43 AM

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Rock.0 wrote:
Does using a PC completely eliminate the need to reduce the acidic liquid down before basification? Given that you'd be using a lot less water (in a jar) than in a whole pot. Or would you still need to do that?

Thanks Smile


not necessarily, as you'd require less base.
I don't know how you'd feel about adding straight lye crystals, but that's how I do nowadays...add lye crystals (gradually, because it's exothermic, and will bubble up) to acidic phases, swirl, notice the color/opacity change (which signifies the pKa has been effectively exceeded) and pour in the sep funnel, then extract with organic.
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Jees
#29 Posted : 12/19/2019 10:34:05 AM

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Rock.0 wrote:
Does using a PC completely eliminate the need to reduce the acidic liquid down before basification?...
Once you get into boiling plant materials, it usually isn't just one boil but several boils (aka washes), collect the waters, reduce volume etc etc

If you take on with a PC to also eliminate the several washes, and head for just one boil, you might not need to reduce volume later on since it's only one boil. But mind that the efficacy (yield) might suffer from using just one boil.

As soon as you're doing more washes than one, say 3 or 4, you will end up with a volume that is going to need reducing to make the pulls on (with the non-polar) just because it's too much a volume and making pulls on a more concentrated liquid is better imho.

I can see reason for just one boil in the case of fine powder bark, it gives it's actives away more easily. But as soon it's (finely) shredded I'd go for more washes.

my 2 cents.
 
Rock.0
#30 Posted : 12/19/2019 11:14:21 PM

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Ok yep, I forgot about the multiple cooks being required.
For reference, I've never done an extraction before, and slowly gathering up as much knowledge and equipment as I can. I'll be using powdered A. Floribunda phyllodes.

I've got an 8.5L stainless steel PC already, and from reading here it sounds like the best way for acid cooking in a home domestic kitchen to avoid a very acidic mess, and the reason I'm curious about reducing the liquid is because I'm not that confident in my shitty apartment sized rangehood's ability to adequately ventilate.
Are there any good methods of reducing while minimising the risk of acidic steam messing up my kitchen?

Quote:
I don't know how you'd feel about adding straight lye crystals

I'm not sure if I follow...do you mean you add lye to the acid cook while it's on the stove? I thought you had to reduce the liquid before adding base.
 
coAsTal
#31 Posted : 12/19/2019 11:35:47 PM

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RE: the boil not stinking up your place,

You just slow-boil with the lid on man-- the steam will leak out slowly, and it doesn't smell too bad.
 
downwardsfromzero
#32 Posted : 12/20/2019 9:34:55 PM

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Rock.0 wrote:
Are there any good methods of reducing while minimising the risk of acidic steam messing up my kitchen?
With MHRB it's not strictly necessary to add acid as the tannins and other organic acids which are present serve that purpose at PC temperatures anyhow.

In a recent post I've described a way of minimising steam escape - albeit for cactus brew but it would apply to MHRB as well - for exactly the crappy rangehood situation you face:
Quote:
If you are willing to stand beside your pans the whole time, there is a technique for indoor boiling down of the tea that avoids producing huge amounts of steam, which can be an issue in areas with cold/damp winters. By having three sets of lids for each pan it is possible to use the lids as erstwhile condensers.

After allowing a maximum amount of condensation to build up before dripping occurs, the water can be wiped off the lid (lid 1) with a silicone spatula and saved for later use - it is distilled water, after all. Meanwhile, a previously water-cooled lid (lid 2) has been placed on the pan already. The freshly wiped but still hot lid (lid 1) is placed, preferably floated, on cold water. The third lid (lid 3, of course) has been removed from the cold water and dried so that it will be ready to place on the pan when the next lid (lid 2) is removed, wiped dry and placed on the cooling water. The cycle continues as long as necessary.

Why go to all this trouble? One benefit this procedure offers is prevention of a crusty build-up of drying cactus goo which slowly creeps up the side of the pan when evaporating without a lid. This goo also forms a thin crust on top of the cactus soup which slows evaporation. IME, the forced condensation onto a cold surface sped up the volume reduction quite noticeably, as well as greatly reducing the amount of steam escaping into the kitchen. If you have the time to commit, I would suggest giving it a try. It may be a viable domestic alternative to pilot-scale evaporation equipment you'd need otherwise.

Another alternative might be to fit a suitable condensing apparatus (still-head and condenser) onto a saucepan lid, but I'm not describing that here. A modicum of one's own research would be of benefit to anyone wanting to proceed in that direction.
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Rock.0
#33 Posted : 12/23/2019 12:15:29 AM

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Thanks mate, that is helpful.
It is Summer here now, so I'll pick a nice hot day to do the acid cook, and open up all the windows as well as run the range-hood on it's highest fan setting, plus try your multiple lid condensation method. I'm sure this will all be very adequate.

On an unrelated note...
Quote:
- lid(s) of the jar(s) should be loose** but tightly wrapped with foil.

Is there any chance of the aluminum foil reacting with the acid and ruining the DMT solution?
 
Jees
#34 Posted : 12/23/2019 12:15:53 PM

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On a side note:
the PC was used for some long boiling of mhrb, quickly cleaned and set away. A week later some food was processed in that PC and by opening there was a smell of mhrb coming off the steam. It was coming from the silicon seal in the lid, this type of PC has a serious sized silicon seal. The smell coming of the seal wasn't immediately gone by washing with soap, it had kind of penetrated.

Luckily the mhrb signature was not to notice in the food.

After cooking bark I suggest to take out seals and cook these in soap or something. A thorough cleaning at least.
 
Rock.0
#35 Posted : 12/24/2019 10:11:25 PM

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Good advice. I haven't used the PC is several years, so I'm going to dedicate it to cooking drugs from now on.
 
Rock.0
#36 Posted : 12/29/2019 11:48:22 PM

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Just following on from my last post about the aluminium foil...I reckon the lids of my jars are also made of aluminium...is this going to be a problem?
 
Rock.0
#37 Posted : 1/2/2020 4:19:24 AM

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I'd like to add some wisdom to this thread.

1. Lid tightness - don't over tighten, but don't UNDER tighten either. The lids popped off during the acid cook and plant matter went everywhere, 100g lost.

2. Prevent jars falling over by ensuring they have enough liquid in them to reduce headspace and minimise buoyancy. They both fell over. On my next attempt I'll be placing 'dummy' jars full of water in the PC so there isn't any room for them to fall over.
 
Rock.0
#38 Posted : 2/24/2020 9:09:29 PM

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One more update here after I finally got around to attempting another extraction.
This time I had much more success using the PC method. As per my previous post, I used two dummy jars full of water as ballasts which prevented my 'live' jars from tipping over.

There was some evidence of leakage from the live jars into the PC, as the water had a murky colour to it after I was finished, so maybe a solution to this is to make the lids a bit tighter?? Although I'm not sure where the fine line is between too tight and not tight enough, risking possible jar explosion or cracking.
 
xvymil
#39 Posted : 3/3/2021 7:18:41 AM

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aetherbound wrote:
Please be careful with pressure cookers. Don't used powdered MHRB as it could clog the relief valve. Thats why you cant pressure cook beans, the hulls can come off and clog it. then kablooey..

Aetherbound


And my mother in law cooks her beans all the time in her aluminium pressure cooker. In Mexico, its the only way to cook beans ! Very happy Go figure... ? I think its a myth...
 
BongQuixote
#40 Posted : 3/3/2021 11:10:43 AM
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xvymil wrote:
aetherbound wrote:
Please be careful with pressure cookers. Don't used powdered MHRB as it could clog the relief valve. Thats why you cant pressure cook beans, the hulls can come off and clog it. then kablooey..

Aetherbound


And my mother in law cooks her beans all the time in her aluminium pressure cooker. In Mexico, its the only way to cook beans ! Very happy Go figure... ? I think its a myth...

Probably safe as long as you don't overfill the pressure cooker. If it wasn't, there would be a lot of injured Mexicans. Just stay under the fill line.

Regarding boiling root bark in general, I started doing pressure cooking as well. I did 4 x standard boil and got a good yield and then put the bark back in the freezer. Some months later, I wondered what would happen if you pressure cooked it, so I took it out and tried. Another 30% yield with just one PC boil. Now I always pressure cook; just right in the cooker without jars. I still do 3 rounds of traditional boils before I switch to PC mode, all using the pressure cooker. First three is lid closed but unlocked and last two lid locked. By keeping the lid on, you don't have to deal with the all day vinegar smell. You will end up with more liquid to reduce, but that's a relatively fast process in comparison.
 
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