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Acacia Confusa + Syrian Rue accidentally taking me on one of my hardest trips - Report Options
 
mooai
#1 Posted : 2/21/2021 9:02:13 PM

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While this trip turned out great I would say, I'm quite experienced and still it could have easily been a lot worse if I got a little unlucky. Made multiple mistakes along the way. Underestimated this combo a lot and my dosage range. In retrospect I should have at least had a sitter on standby, ready to come over if I needed it, if not a sitter there with me the whole time.

Have been doing mostly shrooms the past couple years anywhere from 1-5g dosage ranges. Quite comfortable with that and I have never completely 'lost my head' with shrooms or even come close I feel like. Even with smoked DMT, while I have lost my head at points, it's like I never truly lose it, because I know reality is never going to be far and I will come down soon. This combo was quite different, extremely disorienting, almost full on delusions at points. Felt like almost smoked DMT intensity at points, not breakthrough but very intense and for hours too.

So I had taken acacia twice prior, first time I just ate a small amount of the bark ~2.5g with 3g of syrian rue. Second time I boiled a bit more bark ~5g with 3g syrian rue, but I threw it up right away and so the trip wasn't very intense, but the purge felt cleansing. 3rd time I boiled around 10g of bark 3x and boiled it down, then drank almost all of it, so probably ingested around 8.5-9g I'm guessing, plus my 3g of syrian rue which I ate ground, after taking it many times I almost am not capable of drinking it anymore, the gag reflex has just gotten stronger the more I take it lol, I just grind it well then swallow the powder quickly and give some time to hit before I drink the acacia brew.



The report:

Decided I wanted to make sure I get a solid trip this time, after 2 weaker experiences at lower doses. Eat all my 3g of ground rue by around 10:30 PM, wait 20 mins then start drinking my acacia and finish ~9g by around 11:00 PM and decide that is as much as I will drink. Set my phone to airplane mode and after a bit would set it aside (this was a mistake) so as not to have any distractions/people calling me. Hop in bed and brace myself as I feel it all starting to hit. Wondering if I'm going to purge, kind of expecting it, I purged so quickly last time so I pulled the trashcan up next to my bed. Slowly creeping in on me, pull the blanket over my head as the light was getting overwhelming. Sit there for a few minutes, maybe 5-10 and then I realize it's hitting me hard. The blanket over my head transforms into what looks like some insect queen thing rubbing against my face, it's belly on the right side of my head. It looks so smooth and fleshy. I see other images forming in my blanket, fleshy, carnal, organic, alive. Like little creatures. Getting really intense and at this point I'm like oh man I gotta chill. Pull off my blanket and realize I'm tripping really hard, feels like I just smoked DMT and it's coming on. Swirly stuff everywhere, presences all around my room, same colorful appearance as is common for me with smoked acacia DMT.

Was getting a lot of insectoid and alien vibes. Then also some jester vibes start creeping in. At this point I get up and start feeling kind of scared, can tell already this is going to be extremely intense, with how hard I'm tripping so quickly. The vibes start scaring me a little bit, like the jesters or whoever are fucking with me a bit, "You wanted this, you took a high dose and wanted a strong trip. Now take it." I say no I don't like this feeling at all, it feels sinister, creepy, and I go to the sink and start pouring cold water on myself which relieves it a bit. I wonder if these presences are evil, but I say no, as I have experienced before, it's necessary to dance with the dark parts of it to get the benefit. They aren't necessarily bad. Own it and take it in.

Now I'm on my floor contorting and doing some weird type of yoga, grabbing at my rug, my arms, twisting around trying to ground myself. I worry if anyone can see me through my window doing these wild maneuvers like a madman. I dim the lights a little and stop doing yoga, now I start pacing trying to calm down. Very heavy jester vibes now. Images and feelings of death, and how scary life can be, start thinking of my dead friend who I met in high school, we used to trip together a lot and I felt his presence within the jesters somehow. I think we connected over the jesters in the first place in a way, or maybe we both have some connection to them, not sure, smoked DMT with him multiple times and had one of if not my strongest trip with him. It's hitting me hard, the overwhelmingness of it all, the visuals, the feelings, and I feel like the jesters are here watching me, watching me pace back and forth wanting it to stop at this point. I no longer care about wanting to trip, this was way stronger than I was going for already. I start trying to make myself throw up, start heaving into the trashcan gagging but nothing would come out, it's like the jesters or the experience want to pull me in, won't let me escape it. Sticking my finger in my throat, trying to gag really hard but can't puke. The reflex is happening and seems like I should be able to puke but I can't. Still getting more and more intense. Not sure what time it is but this is probably like 20 minutes in at this point I'm guessing, maybe 11:20 PM or even sooner. Felt like I had a lot of time dilation on this trip.

A lot of the jesters part was about mortality, death and the value of life, how I lost touch with my friend before he died and now I can never connect with him again. Then relating that to how something similar also happened more recently... With another friend last year, didn't die, but I lost touch with him over a fight, now we still don't talk at all. Tried to reach out but we still don't talk. Still have guilt about it and it's a shame that bond was broken. *snip* Decided to edit part of this out cause too personal.

Next part of the trip is going to be hard to write about, because it was the most meaningful and raw emotionally, lot of guilt about who I am came out, and also because it progressively gets more intense. This part is probably the peak. So it switched away from the jester part, but instead of being about death and mortality on a personal scale in my life, it was about death and mortality on a global scale, of all humanity. All the things we have been through as a species, all the suffering, of my ancestors, of other people's ancestors, all the brutal shit people have struggled through, continued through against all odds and opposition, and survived and come out the other end. And all the people that didn't survive, how there were many casualties and how there still are today. Thought about slavery, racism, how privileged I am to not live in a time of strife, to not be a slave or some black dude who got locked up his whole life over bullshit. To not be someone in Africa brutally fighting to survive. Not only about black people but that was a major part of it, and thinking about all that and how I still have prejudices that live within me, I don't consider myself 'racist' or something, or someone to judge anyone by their race, but definitely do have some prejudices in me that I need to reconcile. I also saw all my problems, although in many ways I feel I struggle a lot, I saw them in relation to people like I just mentioned, people in prison, in survival situations, people barely clinging on to survival and all the brutal shit people have powered through. And how I should also power through my own personal problems whether mental, financial, emotional, physical, just the same. I kept repeating "I'm sorry, I am so sorry" at this part of the trip, felt a ton of guilt for anything I had done bad or anything I'd taken for granted.

At this point, I was basically begging for it to stop, just the intense overwhelmingness of how meaningful it was, it felt like I was seeing all the pain of everyone who has suffered that brought us here today. "No no no you don't have to show me this I get it I get it. Please stop. I won't fuck around anymore." As the entities were kind of enjoying putting me through the wringer. Felt like they were showing me all of life and death itself, and its secrets, how real the spiritual realm is, and if I saw it all I might die myself. I was getting heavy visuals here, took me to the same place smoked DMT has, but I don't really want to talk much about that, I think it's only important I talk about the emotional part of the trip. Visuals I don't think mattered that much. At first I was scared to turn off the lights and be overwhelmed by insane visuals, but by the end I did not care at all because the emotional aspect was so intense.

OK now the orderly part of the trip is done, now comes a clusterfuck. That was kind of the peak at least emotionally, but I think I continued to get more disoriented for a while further in the trip. So at some point during all of that, I hear people arguing "hey what the fuck are you guys doing over there" I think I hear someone say outside my window, then, *pop pop pop*, wtf, were those gunshots? Holy shit. Turn all the lights off and was scared shitless for a bit. Should I flush the rest of my bark? What if the cops come and ask me questions? (Found out later this wasn't gunshots... Neighbor has a truck which has some exhaust or something that sounds like this... lol) Needless to say, it added to the whole mortality feel of the trip, took me out of feeling totally safe in my apartment and insulated from any danger in the world. Gave me a taste of fear. Funny timing on this too, and right after that part of the trip, I have never heard that guys truck before and usually people are quite quiet here, especially at this hour... It was still like 11:30 PM at this time too I think. Had no sense of time by this point though. Anyway, heard that, got scared shitless for a bit, ran back and forth trying to find my bark, but I was so confused and disoriented that such a task of searching for something seemed impossible. Anyway, I realized at some point it probably wasn't gunshots because I see people walking outside and it seems fine.

Cooled down a bit but still pacing back and forth wanting it to stop. Try to figure out how I can make myself throw up, I think I tried again but couldn't. Started drinking a ton of water and pouring some on my head, I thought, the most intense part is over, you did it... And poured some cold water all over myself like it was gatorade pouring on my head after I won something lol. Now I started getting some delusions, I for some reason thought my neighbors all knew I was tripping, and even all my friends and parents, like they could sense it or something lol. Started frantically running around trying to make it stop, took off my clothes, put them back on, felt like vague intense pain or maybe it was uncomfortability. A lot of my inhibitions seemed to get released here, and I totally stopped caring to try to hide it or worrying if anyone knew I was tripping, stopped worrying about cops after the gunshots thing, stopped giving a shit about almost anything because everything was coming at me so intense I guess the only thing I could do is totally let go and stop caring. Kept running around, hopped in the shower with my boxers on and turned it on cold to try to ground myself and bring myself out which helped a little bit. Changed again and was frantically pacing, then decided I just needed to talk to someone and I'd be fine. Started looking for my phone and couldn't find it for what seemed like forever. Threw all my blankets off my bed, looked under things, looked on the floor, but I was so high there was no way I was going to find it. Eventually gave up and decided it was too complicated in this state, and thought what other way can I see a person, then I decided to go knock on my neighbors door who is cool and wouldn't care if I was tripping to see if they could calm me down, no answer. Must've been asleep. Also for some reason here I think I thought they were playing a trick on me cause they knew I was tripping and wanted to make me deal with it on my own. In retrospect they definitely didn't know, no one knew, how would they? Even talked to them the next day they just didn't hear me knock. Wasn't having a bad trip but more like I was getting my ass whooped because I was cocky about it and would have to ride it out on my own even if it stung. Go back downstairs continue pacing, then knock on my only other neighbors door who I know well and no answer again. For the best because she's less chill and I'd be worried about her calling an ambulance or something lol, not something I considered at the time, just really wanted someone to talk to.

Back downstairs continuing my saga of desperately searching for someone to talk to using all my brain power to try to figure it out. Can't find my phone so I get on the computer, and decide to try email. Email my dad a barely intelligible message about how I can't find my phone, lol, had to explain that one the next day. Then go online and all caps message someone I know asking if they're awake and saying that I wanted a hug. Finally I get a response and they say something! Though couldn't focus enough to read it. Was about 12:00 AM by this point, almost cannot believe so much happened within an hour, there was more I didn't write about and barely remember. But I think I got the most important parts. Then at this point I remember a purge coming on, run across the room and it's coming out fast, cover my mouth with my hand and run to the trashcan puking a lot before I even get to it, on the floor and on projectile vomiting on to the wall a bit, lol. Anyway glad to vomit and I know I can relax now. Still can't find my phone but I get on discord and start telling all my friends I love them and want to hug them. Then lie down in the fetal position with puke all over me saying gibberish for a while. Tried to play a game on the computer but I ended up taking off a few of my keys somehow while I was playing without noticing. I asked one of my friends to come over and help me out and then I was fine. Watched some TV show for a bit until I chilled out, thanked him, and then he went on his way.



Overall it was actually a great trip and I don't regret it. But I will never be careless with that stuff again. Probably will always just tell at least 1 person I'm tripping from now on, no matter how much I'm taking. Here I planned to drink maybe half of the 10g brew but said fuck it and drank most of it. Led to this wild experience.

Felt great the next day and had an awesome afterglow. Went to bed at 3, woke up at 9 or 10, then went straight to the gym, jogged a mile, and did some lifting.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
titus
#2 Posted : 2/22/2021 11:12:05 AM

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Brilliant report, thank you for posting!
 
Jees
#3 Posted : 2/22/2021 8:40:54 PM

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Hi mooai,
I hear you.

your post makes me reliving my own way-too-much experience, not so much the trip content attributes and storyline of the trip, but the way you dealt with the intensities is remarkably similar: the use of water and the pacing...the pacing...

Oral way-too-much is a world of it's own, especially when full spectrum was on the plate, I know of one other who also got into the pacing madness when things got few notches too much.
Unroasted raw rue is a devil bitch on it's own, then a wack of bark on top of that equals plain torture, I have no other words for it. In my case what presented itself was of lesser concern than the wordless itemless blazing intensity. As if your flesh got sandblasted from around your bones, a kind of suffering that is irrelevant to surrendering or giving in. It simply hurts so darn hard...

We came trough Love
 
ShamensStamen
#4 Posted : 2/22/2021 9:05:56 PM
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Try out 3 to 4.5 grams of Lemon Balm tea with the Rue and Acacia, i think you may find it useful. I've only worked with Mimosa and Acacia as far as DMT-containing plants go, and both are good stuff, but i rather like and prefer Acacia over Mimosa, at least back when i was still into it. With the Lemon Balm in the mix things are quite a bit smoother and it has a different feel/flavor of the medicine/experience/effects. Another thing you can try, which i found interesting, was to drink the Acacia and Lemon Balm tea by sipping on it for 10 to 20 minutes, usually went for about 15 to 20 minutes iirc, and it kicked in much more smoothly and more relaxed. I highly recommend tinkering around and experimenting Razz

Lemon Balm also cleans up how the Rue feels, even to the point where you don't really feel much of the Rue's bodyload or headspace change, like you can still tell there's some Harmala effects going on but it feels quite a bit cleaner than without the Lemon Balm, so i think it's cool that it not only helps the Rue feel better but it can also be used to smooth out the intense DMT come up and reduce anxiety/panic.

Usually with Acacia my dosage was 9 to 12 grams, usually 10 grams, at least with trying to brew it properly so that it would maintain potency but idk if it maintained all potency, but usually 10 grams worth of my teas would be fully immersive for me.
 
Jees
#5 Posted : 2/22/2021 9:57:04 PM

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Hi ShamensStamen,
iirc you also advocate use of limonene (10 drops), how does that compare to the lemon balm tea? Is there a preference? Thanks.
 
ShamensStamen
#6 Posted : 2/22/2021 10:25:19 PM
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Well i use them for different purposes. Limonene i use mainly for nausea/vomiting in relation to the Harmalas, also as a medicine for heartburn. The Lemon Balm i use for smoothing out the come up of Psychedelics, but also for cleaning up how the Harmalas feel. I have noticed that Limonene can also clear up some of how the Harmalas feel, but i definitely notice the Harmalas more when using Limonene vs when using Lemon Balm, so Lemon Balm definitely cleans it up a lot more, like i can take high/heavy dosages of Harmalas with Lemon Balm and still get the benefits of Harmalas without really feeling it, like the bodyload and headspace is way clearer/cleaner. I've also noticed the Harmalas feeling cleaner when i've taken Lemon EO with the Harmalas but overall Lemon Balm seems to do better ime.

With Lemon Balm, it contains Rosmarinic Acid which inhibits GABA Transaminase and raises GABA levels, but also has some Acetylcholinesterase inhibition itself which i'm pretty sure contributes. There may well be other stuff in Lemon Balm which contributes as well to the impact it has on the Harmalas/DMT, idk, but it's the one plant i've stuck with of the few that i've tried as admixture plants.

And yes, 10 drops of Limonene in a capsule taken at the same time as the Harmalas is the way i do it, i've tried up to 30 minutes before the Harmalas but i found it worked best when taken at the same time. Like i can take high/heavy dosages of Rue/Harmalas with 10 drops of Limonene and there's no nausea or vomiting, though at times i mentally feel like i could vomit if i wanted to but i don't have the gut stuff going on, i may have some gas or bloating feeling in the gut sometimes but no real discomfort and no nausea or vomiting.

Some are/were under the impression that something in Lemon EO was acting as a Serotonin 3 antagonist and at first they thought it was Beta-Pinene but through my experimentation i've determined the active anti-emetic in Lemon EO is Limonene and pure Limonene does better than the Lemon EO, and it has nothing to do with the Serotonin 3 receptor, i'm pretty sure. While reading up on Serotonin 1A agonism there appears to be some interaction between Serotonin 1A and a receptor called NK1, and apparently NK1 receptor antagonists seem to be useful as anti-emetics, and i'm pretty sure Limonene has some Serotonin 1A interaction going on so it may be indirectly interacting with the NK1 receptor. Or, it could be somehow acting as a prokinetic agent, maybe Serotonin 4 agonism? I hate that research on natural compounds is lacking because i'd really like to know what exactly Limonene is doing that helps with heartburn, nausea, vomiting, stress, anxiety, depression and mood. Idk what it's Adenosine A2A agonism may be doing though, so that may be something else worth looking into.

Lemon Balm has been reported to have some use in easing gut symptoms, some sources say it helps with nausea, which it may do, idk. When i first started out with it i do think i noticed some positive effects on the gut, and for awhile there i thought it did help with nausea/vomiting but later found out that probably had a lot more to do with the Harmala reverse tolerance. I've tried other remedies for nausea/vomting like Ginger, Peppermint, Zofran, antacids, and some other things, but nothing ever really helped, i mean they may help with some of the nausea but never did stop/counteract/prevent the purge. Only Limonene seems to actually counteract whatever the Harmalas do that triggers the nausea/vomiting, it's like Harmalas send some signal to your gut or your gut thinks it's some sort of toxin or what not and so the natural bodily response is the purge, however with the Limonene added, it's like that signal is blocked out and so the gut processes the Harmalas normally and there's no purge being triggered. Either that or the Limonene gets digestion going and that somehow stops the nausea/vomiting, but i think it could be both. So it would be very interesting to figure out what exactly the Limonene is doing, and see what the Harmalas are doing, and what's really triggering the nausea/vomiting, because i'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with the Serotonin 3 receptor, or Acetylcholine receptors, so my thought is it has something to do with the NK1 receptor, maybe, either directly or indirectly.
 
downwardsfromzero
#7 Posted : 2/22/2021 10:45:02 PM

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Jees wrote:
Hi ShamensStamen,
iirc you also advocate use of limonene (10 drops), how does that compare to the lemon balm tea? Is there a preference? Thanks.

The principal aroma components of lemon balm are geraniol (3-40%), neral (3-35%), geranial (4-85%), (E)-caryophyllene (0-14%), and citronellal (1-44%); thus there is no significant quantity of limonene present.

Depending on the method of preparation and administration, other pharmacologically relevant compounds would include rosmarinic acid and other depsides, flavonoids, and triterpenoids including ursolic acid.

There is also a somewhat spurious claim that lemon balm contains trace amounts of harmine:
https://www.jofsr.org/in...path/article/view/30/21
which, even if true, is unlikely to be significant.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
mooai
#8 Posted : 2/22/2021 11:31:18 PM

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Thanks for the responses guys

Jees wrote:
Hi mooai,
I hear you.

your post makes me reliving my own way-too-much experience, not so much the trip content attributes and storyline of the trip, but the way you dealt with the intensities is remarkably similar: the use of water and the pacing...the pacing...

Oral way-too-much is a world of it's own, especially when full spectrum was on the plate, I know of one other who also got into the pacing madness when things got few notches too much.
Unroasted raw rue is a devil bitch on it's own, then a wack of bark on top of that equals plain torture, I have no other words for it. In my case what presented itself was of lesser concern than the wordless itemless blazing intensity. As if your flesh got sandblasted from around your bones, a kind of suffering that is irrelevant to surrendering or giving in. It simply hurts so darn hard...

We came trough Love


Yes the pacing I was doing was kind of me trying to raise a bit of animalistic aggression in me almost, to forcibly ground myself. I don't often do that, especially with shrooms I'm content just lying on the bed getting my face melted and mumbling. With this I really felt the need to or else something awful might overtake me. Like playing with a lion lol.

Rue can be quite brutal on its own for sure, I think I developed a bit of a tolerance to it or something, I don't seem to be as bothered by the negative effects after a spur of doing it on its own a lot early-mid 2020. 3g on its own just makes me feel kind of stoned and a little loopy. Mixing it with DMT though, especially DMT with NMT too, woah. Almost every time I've got this burning intensity, like this vague burning in all my limbs and my whole body. Another time I recall dosing rue then smoking DMT on top of it, instantly as I hit it all my limbs burned like crazy and I was shaking them off like right after you burn yourself. Might have to give caapi another visit, though I kind of preferred rue from the times I've tried it. I feel like I relate to its personality a bit more, I kind of like how it's a bit darker honestly.

ShamensStamen wrote:

Try out 3 to 4.5 grams of Lemon Balm tea with the Rue and Acacia, i think you may find it useful. I've only worked with Mimosa and Acacia as far as DMT-containing plants go, and both are good stuff, but i rather like and prefer Acacia over Mimosa, at least back when i was still into it. With the Lemon Balm in the mix things are quite a bit smoother and it has a different feel/flavor of the medicine/experience/effects. Another thing you can try, which i found interesting, was to drink the Acacia and Lemon Balm tea by sipping on it for 10 to 20 minutes, usually went for about 15 to 20 minutes iirc, and it kicked in much more smoothly and more relaxed. I highly recommend tinkering around and experimenting Razz

Lemon Balm also cleans up how the Rue feels, even to the point where you don't really feel much of the Rue's bodyload or headspace change, like you can still tell there's some Harmala effects going on but it feels quite a bit cleaner than without the Lemon Balm, so i think it's cool that it not only helps the Rue feel better but it can also be used to smooth out the intense DMT come up and reduce anxiety/panic.

Usually with Acacia my dosage was 9 to 12 grams, usually 10 grams, at least with trying to brew it properly so that it would maintain potency but idk if it maintained all potency, but usually 10 grams worth of my teas would be fully immersive for me.


Really you prefer Acacia? Is Mimosa more shroom like? I imagine the NMT is what makes it so radically different than shrooms but not sure, could be the MAOI too. With shrooms the visuals are crystal clear, astonishingly so, but with the Acacia NMT they are usually rainbow colored, and... yeah I guess a bit less clear even with super high doses. Or maybe it's just that the visuals aren't as much of a focus. Is Mimosa more visual?

I'll check out the lemon balm, rue doesn't bother me so much but if it would stop the burning upon addition of DMT it's worth a look.
 
ShamensStamen
#9 Posted : 2/23/2021 11:10:16 PM
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Well Aya isn't really about visuals, it's more about the body, mind and soul/spirit, it's more about feeling, less about visuals. Some people do get visuals from oral DMT, i don't, whether using Mimosa or Acacia or smoking Changa i don't seem to get much in the way of visuals. Psilocin gives me more visuals than DMT does, especially when Psilocin is combined with Rue for Psilohuasca.

I do think the NMT content and some other stuff in Acacia contributes to the experiences and feelings it provides. Acacia to me seems a lot more mystical/spiritual than Mimosa, but Mimosa is good too, both are capable of good things, i've just had more noteworthy experiences using Acacia.

But yeah definitely check out the Lemon Balm and see how the experiences/effects change.
 
Jees
#10 Posted : 2/24/2021 7:39:56 PM

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Thanks SS and DWFZ for your adds.
ShamensStamen wrote:
Try out 3 to 4.5 grams of Lemon Balm tea ...
Is that fresh picked leaves or dry tea material pls?
Ever combined limonene drops and lemon balm tea afterward?

 
ShamensStamen
#11 Posted : 2/24/2021 8:07:52 PM
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I use dry leaf. Fresh leaves should work too, might even be better than dried leaves, idk, i've never used fresh leaves but i imagine the dosage would need to be figured out.

I have combined Limonene and Lemon Balm while on Rue a few times, but can't really remember what it was like, i know it felt cleaner than the Rue with either by itself though but i think it felt too clean, Lemon Balm already does a good job at cleaning up the Rue, but if you wanna try it out it may be worth trying and experimenting around with imo. If you do, lmk how it goes, i'm always interested in feedback.
 
 
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