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Some TLC with 5-Halo-DMT and 9-Me-beta-carboline Options
 
AlbertChemist
#1 Posted : 1/12/2021 2:52:06 AM

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I don' know if this has been posted yet, but below are the results of some TLC plates I ran for 9-methyl-beta-carboline, 5-chloro-DMT (freebase) and 5-bromo-DMT (freebase).
Also, just FIY, 5-chloro-DMT seems to be orally inactive, at least at 20mg (which is to be expected). Also the fumarate salts of the tryptamines do not move at all (probably too polar).

The stationary phase is silica, the mobile phase is 85% EtOAc and 15% hexane.

The Rf values are just as close as I could estimate, please let me know if you think they should be different since I don't have much experience with TLC.

(Also, sorry for the random order of the pictures, haven't quite figured out how to properly insert images into a post)


9-methyl-beta-carboline: Rf = 31mm/44mm = 0.6888...




5-chloro-DMT (freebase): Rf = 36mm/44mm = 0.8181...



5-bromo-DMT (freebase): Rf = 31mm/42mm = 0.7381...


AlbertChemist attached the following image(s):
5-Br-DMT.png (52kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
5-Cl-DMT.png (54kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
9-Me_TLC_UV.jpg (2,288kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
9-Me_TLC.jpg (2,601kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
9-Me-beta-carboline.png (45kb) downloaded 113 time(s).
Br_TLC_UV.jpg (1,877kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
Cl_TLC_UV.jpg (1,907kb) downloaded 114 time(s).
Halo_TLC.jpg (3,270kb) downloaded 112 time(s).
Al
 

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dreamer042
#2 Posted : 1/12/2021 2:36:05 PM

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Excellent work! Thumbs up

Have you had a chance to bioassay the 9-methyl-beta-carboline?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
AlbertChemist
#3 Posted : 1/12/2021 5:25:12 PM

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dreamer042 wrote:
Excellent work! Thumbs up

Have you had a chance to bioassay the 9-methyl-beta-carboline?



Yes, I have. Mild stimulation and mood lift. I would call this more of a nootropic. But a wonderful substance overall, especially if you keep up a regiment of about 25mg/day for a week or so.
Al
 
Brennendes Wasser
#4 Posted : 1/12/2021 7:05:19 PM

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Cool results!

Quote:
Also, sorry for the random order of the pictures, haven't quite figured out how to properly insert images into a post


Regarding this you need to use the picture function which is the [img ][/img ] from the editor while writing. But the picture has to be uploaded ELSEWHERE and then you just put in the link inbetween this brackets starting with http://whatever.png.

So normally you could use any external picture hoster, but using just our own wiki would be the easiest, as then you dont have the problem of your picture getting deleted at day X.
But so far I havent checked how I can remove them ... so if I have an updated version of a picture, I always have to make a 2nd entry :/
Still the most convenient method, you just have to make a new profile again just for the wiki and then just start uploading.

Quote:
Have you had a chance to bioassay the 9-methyl-beta-carboline?


I would also be interested in that Bromo- Chloro-Tryptamines Wut? so Shulgin it seems potentiated Mescaline by far by replacing the OMe with Cl when migrating to 2-CB. So might there be an analogy of 5-X-Tryptamine to 5-MeO-Tryptamine?
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
endlessness
#5 Posted : 1/13/2021 9:26:40 PM

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Hey!

Thanks for sharing the results of your TLC tests.

A few tips:

1- Play around with concentration. Your sample being spotted seem way too concentrated, that makes measuring Rf not as accurate, and potentially hides impurities/minor spots in case they were there. Dilute them and try again (from having talked to you before I think you also use other analytical methods to make sure there arent other impurities but its good practice anyways to play with concentration of sample and see how they spot on TLC, generally too concentrated samples result in messy plates)

2- Try using larger plates so you can simultaneously run more than one sample in the same plate. That helps to compare substances if you have different samples being tested. You can also run the same sample in different lanes, to get a better view of the spots, you can play around with concentrations in each lane to be able to tell possible adulterants, and also because it makes it easier to compare reagents, which brings me to the next point:

3- It is ideal to drop different colorimetric reagents on the spots after running TLC plates, to get even more information about your spot, to help others who might have the same substance to be able to identify what they have. So say for example you run it 5 times and then use 5 different reagents, one in each spot, taking good pictures and posting online. This info can be shared, sort of like the database we built here

4- Also, what I noticed when playing around with TLC is that measuring Rf is not very useful by itself because different factors affect it (room temperature, saturation of eluent in developing chamber, etc), so it varies too much. It is more useful if you can run the sample of interest plus one unrelated "comparative standard". Say for example you run some easy to find substance like caffeine on a lane next to your sample of interest. Then you write down the Rf of both, and you get a comparative Rf (for example, 5-Chloro-DMT Rf is 0.8 times the Rf of Caffeine). This relational-Rf is way more accurate than the absolute Rf, and it helps other people who can have access to another substance but dont have a reference standard for their sample of interest, they can use the relational Rf to give a better idea if they have what they think they have. After many experiments with this idea, this is how I came up with the TLC spot height calculator. Of course this relational Rf will be specific for each eluent.. which leads me to the next point:

5- Since TLC kits being sold commercially both by bunk police and protestkit.eu use as an eluent methanol:25%ammonia (97.5ml : 2.5ml to make 100ml eluent), I suggest you use this particular eluent because the information of your tests will be useful to a larger number of people.

Hope that helps!

Thanks again for sharing!
 
AlbertChemist
#6 Posted : 1/19/2021 5:57:38 PM

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Thank you for the tips! This is definitely a learning process for me.
I'll try to implement your advice.
The reason i tried to concentrate the sample as much as possible, is that for lower concentrations it's very difficult to see how they spread using UV light. I could of-course try some other staining methods.

I think another problem is that I'm just using silica-OH for the stationary phase.

For polar molecules (such as salts), this doesn't work very well at all. I'll try to find a vendor that offers reverse phase (ideally C18 silica) at a reasonable price, which should allow for the analysis of salts too.

Also, you mentioned before that you have developed a TLC plate method for harm-reduction purposes. Are these currently being sold anywhere? I would be very interested in trying them out.

cheers
Al
 
endlessness
#7 Posted : 1/19/2021 9:08:10 PM

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Hey!

UV light should be suficient, really.. Sometimes its worth checking out both 254 as well as 365nm UV too, some substances have a distinct shine on that higher wavelenght, others not at all..

I wouldnt waste my time with other staining methods really, with the two UVs + reagent afterwards, you'll already have a lot of info.

Silica is not an issue at all with being a stationary phase, but it depends on eluent... It will help a lot using the methanol:ammonia eluent though, you'll see...

As mentioned with the TLC kits, you can purchase them at bunk police or protestkit.eu. They both used the aforementioned eluent and silica plates, and it works very well for most substances.

If you havent seen yet, check this TLC megathread I made, I added a lot of info on interpreting results and common issues people may run into.

Good luck!
 
 
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