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Tepezcohuite is psychedelic but... Options
 
Aeroman
#1 Posted : 12/12/2020 12:45:15 PM

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...only if you consume it as an ayahuasca style brew.

This is the conclusion of my experiments with this readily available and cheap, mimosa tenuiflora (hostilis) tree bark.
Tepezcohuite is sold as a natural beauty ingredient thanks to its well known skin regeneration qualities. It is very cheap but doesn't appear to be considered as an effective psychedelic resource due to its very low DMT content, according to the wiki this is 0.03 % DMT compared to the more potent root bark which is usually 1-2 % DMT.

When you buy tepezcohuite, it is not specified which part of the tree the bark is harvested from although this is most likely to be trunk and stem bark. Perhaps trunk bark close to the roots is more potent.

During the last few months I have exprimented with it, mainly by brewing it and combining it with peganum harmala (Syrain rue) tea to have an oral DMT experience.

The first attempt was with 10 grams of bark and 3.5 grams of rue seeds, to my surprise I ended up having a mild psychedelic trip that lasted 5-6 hours.

The following preparation attempts were made with varying proportions of the ingredients, brewing times, temperatures, etc. One thing I learnt was boiling reduced the effects, allowing all the liquid to evaporate dry and therefore over heating the bark will create a weak brew. Consuming different amounts of rue tea at different times had a major effect on the trip experience.

I eventually perfected my preparation to achieve an intense breakthrough trip that lasts several hours and sends you through multiple dimensions and gets your body buzzing like crazy. This requires 20-25 grams of bark with 5-6 grams of peganum harmala seeds brewed into a concentrated tea and drunk 20 minutes before the bark brew.

So far, I have never purged from my experiments, I usually have ginger tea as a mouth rinse and anti-nausea cure.

The intensity of these trips made me think that maybe there is more DMT conatined in the bark than the expected 0.03 %. So I tried multiple extractions which all failed, I eventually succeeded by brewing and concentrating 450 grams of bark down to 500ml of thick black soup from which I managed to extract 80 mg of DMT xstals (after a re-x) which is less than the 0.03 % DMT mentioned in the wiki.

So I created this thread to get some explanations from some of the knowledgable members here.

An acid extraction appears to release potent pychedelic substances from the tree/stem bark but DMT levels appear to be extremely low when you attempt freebase extractions with commonly used teks.
Could the high amount of tannins in tree bark be trapping the DMT?
Is the DMT contained in the bark converted to substances that can't be extracted using standard techniques?




 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 12/12/2020 10:54:45 PM

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What now seems like aeons ago, I tried extracting from a small amount (25g?) But the results were so vanishingly small I didn't bother recording anything. [This is far from being the only admission of my shortcomings as a scientist that you'll find!] Aaaanyhow, that is very much in accordance with the findings that you report here.

It would be most helpful to hear more details of the brewing methods you've tried - namely, while it's clear that prolonged boils adversely affect the results, which technique brought you the most success to date?
Was it a hot soak, like making a cup of tea or coffee, or did you use a cold soak, or maybe a simmer?
How long were the brewing times?
How much of what acid did you use?

While it does seem likely that tannins could trap DMT as an insoluble salt these types of compounds are only weak acids so even an only slightly stronger acid should be capable of releasing the DMT - perhaps even CO2? It's worth bearing in mind also that the DMT may be bound up in yuremamine or something similar. As we can see, yuremamine is effectively comprised of a DMT molecule bound to a flavanol (this latter could be counted loosely as a member of one of the subtypes of tannins, the phlobaphenes).

https://doi.org/10.1055%2Fs-2005-873131
Quote:
Abstract

Yuremamine was isolated and characterized from the stem bark [emphasis added] of Mimosa tenuiflora [=M. hostilis]. This plant is still used by indigenous peoples in North-eastern Brazil to make yurema, a psychoactive beverage that is used for medico-religious purpose (jurema preta or vinho da jurema, in Portuguese). The characterization of this novel compound by NMR and mass spectrometry introduces a new class of phytoindoles.


Your work on this is much appreciated Thumbs up
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Aeroman
#3 Posted : 12/13/2020 1:23:22 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:


It would be most helpful to hear more details of the brewing methods you've tried - namely, while it's clear that prolonged boils adversely affect the results, which technique brought you the most success to date?
Was it a hot soak, like making a cup of tea or coffee, or did you use a cold soak, or maybe a simmer?
How long were the brewing times?
How much of what acid did you use?

Thanks for your answers again downwardsfromzero, that's the kind of information I was hoping for.
I'm hoping that a technique to extract more goodies from the stem bark might be invented, anyone up for the challenge?

To answer your questions
For an automatic breakthrough, oral DMT trip I usually follow this recipe:

20-25 grams of ground tepezcohuite bark

I usually do 3 brewing phases - sometimes if I don't have time, the 3rd phase will have 1/2 the amount of water/vinegar solution.

Each phase requires:

2 litres of deionised water
8 tablespoons of 8% white vinegar - this gives a ph of around 4

In a stainless steel pasta pot, I heat up the mix to just below the point where simmer bubbles appear, I used a thermometer scanner and the water measured around 75°C, when the water level drops, it is necessary to lower the temperature until the simmer bubbles stop, boiling briefly in a full pot isn't such a problem but at low levels you need to observe regularly the level and heat of the water.

It is time to remove the pot from the heat when the bark becomes visible at the surface of the brew, each phase usually takes 3-4 hours with my equipment. I strain and squeeze in a stainless steel tea strainer using a cocktail muddler to press the liquid out and collect it in a stainless steel mug.

At the end of the 3 brewing phases, I'll clean the pot and pour in the collected brews for a reduction at the same sub-simmer heat setting. I usually reduce to about 80-100 ml, this takes less than 30 minutes (depending on temperature setting etc.) - keep a close eye on it.

At first, I tried egg white binding of the tannins, then I tried activated carbon but I discovered that I won't purge if I just wait for the brew to mix with my gastric juices by staying immobile until I start feeling the effects, so I just drink it as is. Nausea usually occurs when I take too much Syrian rue tea (over 6 grams of seeds) 6 grams is the perfect amount for an intense trip. I usually take it 20 minutes before the bark brew.

Each trip usually lasts about 4-5 hours altogether with around 2 hours at full intensity. It costs below €2 per trip. I can buy all the ingredients locally and legally.
The only disadvantage is the length of time required to prepare it so if a special extraction tek could be developed, that would be perfect.




 
downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 12/13/2020 10:36:22 PM

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Thanks for the details, and congratulations on your promotion to full membership!

Edit: I get the feeling that a slow drip cold brew method might lend itself well here, but that wouldn't make the process any faster. Seeing as you appear to be working with powdered tepezcohuite, it could easily be the case that short simmers would do the job just as well as longer ones. Have you experimented with shorter simmer times?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
doubledog
#5 Posted : 12/13/2020 10:55:56 PM

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If 25g of bark is really active dose, DMT content is probably higher than 0.03%.
I would use STB with toluene or xylene for initial extraction when working with such weak material.
 
Aeroman
#6 Posted : 12/15/2020 12:28:29 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Thanks for the details, and congratulations on your promotion to full membership!

Edit: I get the feeling that a slow drip cold brew method might lend itself well here, but that wouldn't make the process any faster. Seeing as you appear to be working with powdered tepezcohuite, it could easily be the case that short simmers would do the job just as well as longer ones. Have you experimented with shorter simmer times?
Thank you! If you helped with my promotion I really appreciate it.

Interesting that you mention short simmers, I had a fail on saturday after having done 9 hours of brewing, I fell asleep during the reduction phase and when I woke up, it had dried out and burnt, aargh!!!

So on Sunday I experimented with a "Quick brew" that took 4-5 hours.
In my experience, longer is stronger so to make up for the shorter brewing time, I added 10 grams more bark powder, so 35 grams.
I used 2 pots and split the ingredients by half, so 17.5 grams bark + 1 litre water, + 2 tbsp of vinegar in each pot.
That took just under 2 hours until I strained and squeezed, I then combined the bark into one pot added another litre of water + 2 tbsp of vinegar and brewed that for 2 hours while I reduced the first phase brew. I then added the 2nd phase and reduced everything combined to about 100 ml.

The trip was the equivalent in strength to 15-20 grams of bark prepared with an all day long brew. It took me to the breakthrough zone, I kept popping in and out of the breakthrough but I didn't reach the epic, multi-dimensional state that I have previously achieved. I also had a bit more stomach discomfort than usual which didn't help, probably due to increased tannins.

During that epic trip I also experienced stomach pain but once I has phased into the higher frequency, it was instantly cured, this amazed me, it's almost like it is a symptom of inter-dimensional travel sickness. My goal is to perfect the preparation to get me back into that state each time.

doubledog wrote:
If 25g of bark is really active dose, DMT content is probably higher than 0.03%.
I would use STB with toluene or xylene for initial extraction when working with such weak material.
Interesting, I'll give that a go when I can source those solvents.




 
jamie
#7 Posted : 12/19/2020 2:54:44 PM

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I can confirm...sorta.

I have over a kilo of bark, just as you have described-although this bark was sopposed to have been rootbark.

It is spot on with your account. My gf and I both require 20-25g of the bark to get a good solid effect on par with maybe 4-5g of rootbark. We are drinking 5g of rue and 25g of the mimosa bark each. Last experience was a month ago and very powerful, on the verge of a breakthrough. It produced two of the most memorable and spiritual experiences I have had with DMT. I would almost suggest that I prefer this bark, but I cant really say yet.

Extracting the stuff is pointless. It was so low yielding trying to deal with almost nothing from 100g of bark is futile. It does seem to yield much more out of a brew, vs what I expected after seeing the extraction...which worked vaped as it should. This stuff is DMT, whatever the bark is. Months ago I just concluded I have a big old bag of trunk bark.
 
Aeroman
#8 Posted : 1/9/2021 12:10:04 PM

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jamie wrote:
I can confirm...sorta.
I have over a kilo of bark, just as you have described-although this bark was sopposed to have been rootbark.
This stuff is DMT, whatever the bark is. Months ago I just concluded I have a big old bag of trunk bark.


Glad that you discovered this too after that deception. I've found that preparation makes a big difference to the brew potency, I'm still experimenting with different variables. It would be great to hear from others if they had a successful experience.
I'm preparing a 30 gram bark brew currently. It wasn't intentional but I allowed it to boil for several minutes after switching on the heat. My previous attempts didn't suffer too much from this so long as it occurred with a full pot of water at the start, so I'm going to test a slight simmer with a higher temperature setting throughout the 3 phase brewing process.

Compared to vaping freebase DMT, the oral DMT experience is a lot more enjoyable when you hit those high vibe states, you reach the same multi-coloured fractal universes but can linger there for much longer than usual, I would have liked to stay longer in some of those dimensions but I phased into many different frequencies until I reached what I can only describe as being connected with all of creation, the state where you perceive the energetic universe with 360° multidimensional "vision".
I can see how religion would be inspired by this kind of substance, like you say, it's an incredibly spiritual experience.
 
Ramma
#9 Posted : 1/10/2021 5:39:39 AM

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Great post aeroman. bet you caught a good buzz there
 
Aeroman
#10 Posted : 1/10/2021 10:18:20 AM

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DO NOT LET YOUR BARK BREW BOIL AT ANY MOMENT!

I was wrong in my last post, letting the bark brew boil twice for a total of around 5 minutes severely reduced its DMT potency. 30 grams of bark should have resulted in an intense buzz and instant breakthrough but instead, last night's trip was no stronger than a well prepared 10 grams of tepezcohuite bark, it was barely psychedelic. So boiling for so long caused a reduction in strength of more than 60%.

I made the mistake of setting the temperature too high and not staying around to observe. In future I will set the temperature to a sub simmer heat setting, then there is nothing to worry about. The surface of the brew liquid should appear like it is moving (hot currents reaching the surface) but only slight bubbling is acceptable. Every cooker hob is different, on my smallest hob, I require a temperature setting of about 75% max power but on my largest hob the setting is 55-45%, when the brew level is low, it bubbles more so I reduce the temperature.
To work out the optimum setting, just stay in control of the temperature and react quickly if you see bubbling.

If anyone can offer an explanation for why boiling reduces the DMT potency I'd love to hear it.

 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 1/11/2021 8:19:45 PM

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It seems worth a try preparing a brew with tepescohuite in a coffee percolator. I'll report back.

The loss of potency suggests to me that the active material - be it DMT or something else - is prone to thermal decomposition. We know that DMT in root bark is apparently reasonably stable on boiling so this appears to hint that we're dealing with something akin to yuremamine, if not yuremamine itself.

A careful chemical analysis is required, including a comparison between simmered and boiled tepescohuite brews.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Aeroman
#12 Posted : 1/12/2021 12:31:22 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
It seems worth a try preparing a brew with tepescohuite in a coffee percolator. I'll report back.

The loss of potency suggests to me that the active material - be it DMT or something else - is prone to thermal decomposition. We know that DMT in root bark is apparently reasonably stable on boiling so this appears to hint that we're dealing with something akin to yuremamine, if not yuremamine itself.

A careful chemical analysis is required, including a comparison between simmered and boiled tepescohuite brews.
I was wondering if the gasses released during boiling might alter the chemical composition or acidity of the brew, I should have tested if the ph remained close to 4.0.

Percolating the bark is an interesting idea - psychedelic espresso. Love
I might give it a go too, I have a large 5 cup stainless steel percolator.

I was thinking about several experiments to try such as using vinegar, alcohol or water solutions with those liquids. It might be possible to increase the strength by repercolating the bark several times.
 
Aeroman
#13 Posted : 1/13/2021 8:24:20 AM

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Experiment - 1 cup aluminium Espresso "Moka" + 20 grams of tepezcohuite powder + deionized water.

I just learned that my Italian moka espresso maker isn't the same as a coffee percolator, the latter would probably work much better.

I recycled the bark powder to make 3 espressos, the liquid was thick and black. Shredded bark, ground in a coffee grinder would probably work better, off the shelf bark powder gets too dense to let much water pass through. Filling the powder bowl to 80% and only lightly tamping seemed to produce the thickest espresso extraction. It took 30-40 minutes to prepare the 3 espressos.

I reduced the 3 espressos a little and drank with some honey 15 minutes after downing a 4 gram rue tea shot. The espresso wasn't exactly pleasant but much less repulsive than with vinegar

Note: I wasn't expecting to try this last night and for lunch I ate a double cheese and bacon burger with pickles for lunch so the effects I experienced might be due to a MAOi + Tyramine reaction.

I started feeling effects 30 minutes after consuming the espressos and 60 minutes later I started feeling quite high, mildly nauseous and slightly dizzy when standing up. It felt like there was increased pressure inside my head but it wasn't a headache. I felt some body vibrations but at no point did I experience any strong DMT psychedelic effects, I was unable to meditate myself into a breakthrough either.

Next experiment

So I think that an overnight acetic acid soak prior to using the moka would help extract the good stuff. I don't want to use acid in my aluminium moka so I'll use my 5 cup stainless steel version, unfortunately its powder bowl holds a lot more material.




 
ShamensStamen
#14 Posted : 1/13/2021 8:30:37 AM
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Aeroman wrote:
[b] Note: I wasn't expecting to try this last night and for lunch I ate a double cheese and bacon burger with pickles for lunch so the effects I experienced might be due to a MAOi + Tyramine reaction.

I started feeling effects 30 minutes after consuming the espressos and 60 minutes later I started feeling quite high, mildly nauseous and slightly dizzy when standing up. It felt like there was increased pressure inside my head but it wasn't a headache. I felt some body vibrations but at no point did I experience any strong DMT psychedelic effects, I was unable to meditate myself into a breakthrough either.


You're good on the Tyramine front, Tyramine isn't an issue with reversible MAO-A inhibition. The effects you experienced are Rue/Harmala effects. As for the DMT, of course potency of the bark matters, how well it's brewed, and the timing between the Rue/Harmalas (usually 30 minutes to an hour between the Rue/Harmalas and the DMT).
 
Aeroman
#15 Posted : 1/13/2021 8:47:16 AM

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Thanks ShamensStamen, I haven't waited beyond 20 minutes after consuming the MAOI yet, I'll give that a try.
From my brewing experience, longer is stronger but perhaps with the moka, pressure can help squeeze the good stuff out much more quickly, it seems to require some vinegar to extract it though. I'm going to prepare the acid soak today, will probably test it with the moka espresso technique tomorrow evening.
It would be great to find a more efficient preparation method than all day long brewing.
 
downwardsfromzero
#16 Posted : 1/13/2021 3:09:53 PM

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I think espresso/moka jugs will run too hot - steam gets forced through the material. Percolators [edit:] Slow-drip coffee makers are that bit cooler, much more like the simmering you report to be successful.

Aeroman wrote:
So I think that an overnight acetic acid soak prior to using the moka would help extract the good stuff. I don't want to use acid in my aluminium moka so I'll use my 5 cup stainless steel version, unfortunately its powder bowl holds a lot more material.
If you do proceed with using the larger, stainless steel jug you could mix the bark with a coarse inert material like quartz grit to limit the amount of plant material used while filling up the bowl sufficiently for it to function effectively.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Aeroman
#17 Posted : 1/13/2021 5:38:44 PM

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Good point downwardsfromzero, the percolator is more suitable, unfortunately they are quite pricey,

I figured that I would test my moka anyway, I measured the bowl and it comes to around 45 grams of ground bark, so 2 doses. Steam is very hot but perhaps its brief passage through the bowl might do less damage than boiling for several minutes.
 
Aeroman
#18 Posted : 1/13/2021 5:47:21 PM

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.
 
downwardsfromzero
#19 Posted : 1/13/2021 8:08:31 PM

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OK, I've looked into this and it seems I've used the wrong terminology! The thing I was thinking of seems to be known as a coffee maker and I'll admit I've never before in my entire life seen one of these things that show up on a search engine as being a coffee percolator. So, as they say, you live and learn! Embarrased

This is what I thought a coffee percolator was:

but clearly, I was wrong.

[A cheap, simple coffee maker should cost no more than a mid range stainless steel moka jug. It's just a thermal syphon leading into a filter funnel with a jug underneath.]
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Aeroman
#20 Posted : 1/16/2021 11:30:48 AM

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I left the bark to soak in the acidic solution for around 56 hours, shaking/swirling the jar from time to time.

I started wondering if the the solution alone was enough for a cold extraction of the DMT from the bark, so I poured out the liquid without squeezing the pulp to test it, about 200 ml in total.

I added some red grape juice (ph 9) to neutralise the vinegar and improve the flavour, it really works well. It tastes like a sweet, woody flavoured tea instead of the nasty, sour, vinegary taste of a standard brew. There was less belching and stomach discomfort.

The effect was mildly psychedelic, some body vibrations, low intensity fractal visuals and I kept having awake dream like visions.

Perhaps a strain + squeeze would have increased the potency or just leaving it longer like a tincture preparation - from 2 weeks to a month for example.

I'm going to try the moka extraction experiment with the acid soaked pulp tonight, will report tomorrow.

 
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