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Changa in MRI: need advices! Options
 
Quetzal7
#1 Posted : 12/24/2020 8:42:48 AM

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Hey Folks!

So I got contacted for a study on the effect of ayahuasca on the vision. The study aim to see if there's correlation beetween aya visions and the “hallucination” people have when, for a reason or another, they turn blind. And help with a better treatment for that.
Of course, the study will collect data for wider purposes; the doctor is interested in “spirituality” , and it's relation to serotonin; and many other ideas...
The whose study is based on MRI scans

There plan is to cook ayahuasca down and put it in capsule – so this is
Question 1 : has anybody tried that before? I told them that it's worth a try but that might not work, as the IMAO would dissolve too slowly, the whole cinetic would be a bit messed up.... (why not do the fail proof method of a thick liquid... )

They got the permits to use the substances legally, but they are running late in providing them (providing the plant, cooking it, then biotest + chemical analysis)

So, this is where things get fun ! They asked me if I could smoke changa before going in the MRI (I told them about changa in the first place, they had no idea). I was psychologicly ready to take a moderate dose of aya and spend 20 min in a mri. But smoke changa, then having to enter the MRI room , go in the MRI , all of this as i'm coming up , and cherry on the cake, with a mask on because of Corona magic ! That's a whole new level of epic mission ! The whole thing is “hilarious” because the doctors have no idea about psychedelic in the first place... they never took it! When I told the head doctor that this is a bit crazy thing to do, he responded “no worries, we will have nursses and assistants around” … how in the world is this gonna help ?!!!

Affortunatly, a good friend -transpersonal psychologist - has been hired as a consultant to make sure the whole thing isn't a disaster.

So question 2: as anybody smoked changa or DMT and went into a MRI? Could you describe the protocole?

Question 3 : would YOU do such a thing ? Why?

Thanks for your feedback !

 

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Tomtegubbe
#2 Posted : 12/24/2020 9:06:23 AM

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Nick Sand, the first person ever to inhale vaporized DMT was very critical of Rick Strassman's DMT study. You can read his criticism here: http://psychedelicfronti...ed-world-dmt-nick-sand/

Even Strassman himself admits in the book Spirit molecule that his interest was in the phenomenology of the DMT not the physiology, but studying physiology was the only legitimate way to do research. It's sad that this still seems like the prevailing paradigm.

There's very much pressure in the academia for psychologist to remain in the realm of objective in fear of losing their academic credibility. However, if we are to study mystical experiences and altered states of mind, there's no way we can remain in the world of objective.

William James was pioneering academic in the field of psychology and his book Varieties of Religious Experience is considered a masterpiece even today by wide audience. James' work focuses on the experiences of various people and philosophical conclusions supported by common knowledge. He even touches the subject of mind altering substances by presenting his own experiences with nitrous oxide. I believe this is the approach the research should take if we are willing to progress scientific understanding of these phenomena.
 
Quetzal7
#3 Posted : 12/25/2020 3:45:21 PM

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I totally agree.
 
dreamer042
#4 Posted : 12/26/2020 7:12:58 PM

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I think you will be the first person to have smoked changa in an MRI machine, that's super cool! Cool

I'd suggest doing a sober scan first to establish a baseline. Then take a big fat rip (or 3) and lay down and have em immediately start scanning.

I expect the results will look similar to the psilocybin MRI studies, but I'm very insterested to see what shows up.

Keep up the good work sir, and keep us posted on the results! Thumbs up
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
SynKyd
#5 Posted : 12/27/2020 1:04:29 AM

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Well it doesn’t sound very scientific as far as studies go, nothing personal man. I wouldn’t do that personally just because you never know what your state of mind might be waking up in a MRI tube from a launch, and the dosage administration isn’t measured or precise by any means.

The good news is you’re in a medical facility around trained professionals, and probably safe from any real harm.

Interested to hear how this ends up, please report back!

Love
At the center of this existence, it is everything and nothing, all of us and each of us and none of us. My light is now lit, and it cannot be extinguished.
 
WanderingCat
#6 Posted : 12/27/2020 4:57:30 AM

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Before blasting off I tend to feel like the room I'm in turns foreign, almost like an advanced alien hospitalLaughing. When coming back from a trip, sometimes I tend to forget who I am for a few seconds, thoughts of "Is this the right dimension?" "Is this the future?" come into mind but by the end of it I get myself back together Smile

DO IT!

In my opinion at least. Your choice of course not mine. The thought of it really excites me.
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Phangz wrote:

"this is your height on dmt.."
 
Quetzal7
#7 Posted : 12/27/2020 2:05:14 PM

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Well, it's adventurus to say the least, so i'm tempted to do it ; i think i can manage a small to medium dosage quite good - i breakthrough totally only once a year; for me a breakthrough isn't joke - or it's the BIGGEST joke in the universe. When i say breakthrough, i mean not visual entertainment, aliens and entities, but the last level accessible before complete black out. This is not possible for me in this context.

I just have to convince them to make it possible to smoke at the entrance with everything ready (but that probably breaking some rules, notably covid rules) ; i don't see myself having to go through a whole preparation as the Spice is unspinning me into fractal dimentions...

The odd thing is that i'm rarely a passive oberver in the journeys, i tend to do crazy sounds with smooth arms movements and mutras. It just happens by itself...

We will see, i'm waiting for a repsond from the team to my many questions...

 
der-seemann
#8 Posted : 12/28/2020 5:13:17 PM

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I would try to find another ROA.
Maybe oral harmalas and vaped DMT? Vaping might be possible next to the MRI...
With an e-mesh setup you produce no smoke, and almost no visible vapor, just a little odor...
 
Quetzal7
#9 Posted : 12/29/2020 2:10:10 PM

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Also, they confirmed they want to dry out completly the ayahuasca for the future tests (when they will have it) , to "minimiszed stomach disconfort" ; i beleive it's retarded idea but i never tried it so i cannot confirm. Anybody on this ?

I think i'm gonna go for this changa minidose anyway, just to get to know the researcher better and avoid that they do stupid things with ayahuasca... like not having a proper set & setting, and releasing people in the street or in a hotel after the scan (they offered me a hotel ; i'm fine with that, i can go solo in any journey, but what about less trained people?
 
downwardsfromzero
#10 Posted : 12/30/2020 8:01:27 PM

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Sounds to me like the researcher needs to do rather more background study into the nature of psychedelic experiences. Have you shown him Nick Sand's two articles, which many consider to be items of essential reading - "Moving Into the Sacred World of DMT" and "Just a Wee Bit More About DMT"?

Then there are the researchers who consider it unethical to experiment with psychedelics on human volunteers without at first having had a psychedelic experience themselves.

At least one other Nexus member has been in the MRI scanner under the influence - Bancopuma, iirc. That was with injected DMT, however.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Quetzal7
#11 Posted : 1/9/2021 9:23:47 AM

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Success!

I went for the first session. I first met with 2 doctors and 1 psychologist ; i went through all the formalities about medical history , life habits, psychologic health etc , then we had already great talks about the experiment itself, the psychedelic experience, the set&setting, the protocole...

They were really open minded and interesting people ; but had really little idea of what they getting into - but simultaniously, they were aware of that, and in fact they considered me as "the expert" in the room, which i found really funny. One of them had 1 time ayahuasca, the other one maybe a couple LSD experiences.

then my friend - a transpersonal psychologist , hired as a consultant for the set&setting, - joined in. And also a really interesting old man from an association that reasearch the relation beetween mind and matter. Such a crew =)

They prepared a causy room within the research facility, with a tiny bed, a crash spot with pillows, an "altar" with some crystal and palo santo =) it was nice. But the MRI was like 3 minutes walk from there, in the underground of the nuclear research institute...
Odly enough, i dreamed of going in the underground of a nuclear research center 6 months ago, and remembered perfectly the dream as i enter the space!

the whole team went together to the MRI room. I asked to rehearse the procedure of getting in the MRI first. I kept the energy and the vibe light and relax for everybody. But the main technician of the MRI wasn't that relax - she isn't part of the study and even if she knew what's goin on, she was at loss. Especially when i sat on the ground, made a minimalist altar, prepared the pipe with my miligram scale... it was such a glitch in the matrix. Then i demanded that everybody get cleanse with palo santo. Again, it was quite hilarious to observe the technician , who couldn't compute why in the world she had to do that.

I smoked in the staircase entrance , a most incongruous space to smoke changa ever. 50mg in one big perfect hit. by the time i blew out, the smoke was already tint with irridescent rainbow. 3 second later, as i enter the facility, everything become translucent with bright colors ; my body is loosing boundaries and i'm quickly projected into a trance state ; i danced my way to the MRI bed.
they quickly prep me. as i close my eyes i drift into another dimention, a beautiful cave made of luminescent red and orange colors ; "fortunately" , at this dose, i didn't encounter entities (which sometime can be challenging) , and i was still quite aware of the "normal world". By the time the machine started to make its crazy sound, i was past the peak visual and started to go slowly down. I had still many close eye visual for the next 5-10 minuts.
then i had to open my eyes ; i had a mirror in front of me , on which they projected visuals, like stroboscopic black and white expanding circles and spirals. The tracers they created were pretty cool!
when the MRI started, i got electrical sensations and strange pressure on my skull - maybe just a synestesic effect due to the sound ? maybe just the changa itself?
I stayed there for 50 minutes, so i got plenty of time to come down and meditate.

When i came out, the crew was really happy ; it all went good, and they said i was amazing at keeping completly still. THey were also amaze that my heart beat didn't went up at all. And me too ! it was one of the most relax trip i ever had xD

the trans-psychologist went into the scanner after me. I got plenty of time to discuss with the doctors all the experience, and the future of the experiments. They got quite exited and would like to experiment more with changa. They see how it would be easier in some way than ayahuasca - no bodyload, and no need of taking care of people tripping for 8h. But they also might have got the wrong idea ... i doubt that anybody can smoke changa and enter peacefully into the MRI like this. The come up is so dramatic.

Also, we need to fix the issue of smoking outside. By the time the MRI start, the most interesting part happened already. So for next time, i propose to use the GVG (no smoke) ; blow out in a bag ; and maybe predose with 40mg harmaline to make it last... Only problem, i'm not supposed to remove my mask within the facility (that's a bit absurd, as i will be only inhaling!). So this last problem don't seems to find solution.

Then we got another 2 hours meeting with all the team ; filling up the last questionnaire (one of them was nice! strassman questionnaire rating the "spiritual experience"Pleased. This is another thing they want to investigate : MRI and PET as we undergo a "spiritual experience" (whatever that means...). The issue is, for the 2 of us that day, it was one of the "least spiritual" changa experience we ever had. Of course, it wasn't really our intent to start with (my intent was just to go through the process with an open mind and make sure everything is smooth) ; but also, the collective consiousness surrounding us wasn't supportive of such an experience. The switch level of reality and perception is also a group thing ; the matrix is a collective construct.
They looking for more volunteers ; so i could come with "my crew", and the 4 of us could create our little ceremony, predose with harmala, meditate and rise up the energy before entering the MRI.




 
Tomtegubbe
#12 Posted : 1/9/2021 10:53:12 AM

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Thank you for the update! It's good to hear the people had an open minded attitude to the experience! Maybe you could use a Volcano to make a bag of vaporized changa and inhale the bag when you are inside the MRI machine to record the peak? This way you wouldn't have to worry about the smoke I think, since you only get vapors. You might need to take the harmalas beforehand though, because it might be difficult to get them vaporized in the same temp as DMT with Volcano.

I appreciate that you took care of the atmosphere and everyone respected the molecule. I think this is utterly important if continuing with additional volunteers.
 
 
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