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nutmeg extraction Options
 
vixintrex
#1 Posted : 11/23/2020 9:35:19 PM

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good morning
I want to distill oil of nutmeg, chlorinate (with muriatic acid) I might brominate (aquarium salt, but that's mostly my decision) and then aminate with 26% from the hardware store. there will be lots of shaking. tell me, how do I buy this ammonia confidently? like gimme an alibi.
 

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vixintrex
#2 Posted : 11/23/2020 10:13:45 PM

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ok so that was my first question

my second question is the real question right yeah no I figured the weight of this task was going to be on my head but since I'm here I'll ask this too

and no I really am asking how to purchase a jug of ammonia without garnering attention

but also yeah this oil of nutmeg. I have a centrifuge so I was hoping maybe I could make use of that. what's the junk? terpenoids, right? I should see some like legit bands separating the allylbenzenes from the junk comprising like somewhere around ten percent of the oil so that's all I'm doin there
 
vixintrex
#3 Posted : 11/24/2020 2:07:26 AM

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ack I know I said it's my own head but that's how you do that, right? hCl > NaBr > NH3Oh?

is that backwards? do I go hBr > hCl > NH3Oh? I really don't want to distill hydrobromic acid. I mean, I might would want to distill some nitric for the hell of it but not today. not tomorrow. I really want to do this.

I'm on proxies
 
downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 11/24/2020 2:24:29 PM

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https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...hemicals_and_procedures

Yes the terpenes get in the way of the reaction you're interested in.

How will a centrifuge help? An autoclave and thee right kind of (preparative) chromatography equipment would be momre useful.

Judging by the questions you're asking, you seem not to be ready for performing this type of procedure.

Start growing some Trichocereus cacti instead.



Save yourself time and trouble - make a nutmeg tincture and use it in low doses as a mood and sensory enhancer. It turns out it's quite good to pre-dose with a bit of nutmeg tincture as an enhancer before mescaline, or psilocybin mushrooms, for example.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=151035#post151035
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...p;m=1014056#post1014056
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...p;m=1014053#post1014053

Particularly, check out the links in this post:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=876594#post876594
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#5 Posted : 11/24/2020 7:01:58 PM

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alright so this is going to sound retarded but what about the possibility of using trimyristin as a substitute for aliquat 336? are the ester groupings too weak to stand up to say a reflux?
 
downwardsfromzero
#6 Posted : 11/24/2020 11:36:20 PM

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Aliquat 336 is a phase transfer catalyst. Trimyristin will not do that due to it not being a quaternary ammonium compound. Attempting reflux of trimyristin (at 311 °C, no less) will produce a ton of acrid fumes while it decomposes into carcinogenic acrolein, unless you're refluxing in a pretty hard vacuum, or you're using a refluxing solvent with a significantly lower boiling point than trimyristin - in which distinction your question is more than a tad ambiguous.

PS if one had HBr, one would simply go HBr, then NH3. BTW, did you know, Shulgin's endogenous amination hypothesis for nutmeg psychoactivity is just plain wrong? There is no evidence for it occurring in humans (and it has been looked for, repeatedly); the one reported success by Ulrich Braun using rabbits (or was it rats?) has never been replicated.

Current research points towards nutmeg's psychoactivity being produced through its interactions with the endocannabinoid system and enzymes such as MAGL and FAAH which break down endocannabinoid substances.


You might want to look into why the hardware store might be selling ammonia. Clue: it's not for the convenience of wannabe drug chemists.

This forum is focused on plant-based entheogens. It's not a place for hand-holding you through an attempt at drug synthesis. Besides, if you don't go as far as separating your individual allylbenzenes you'll end up with a mess.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#7 Posted : 11/25/2020 12:10:34 AM

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I have a nutmeg absinthe somewhere around here

yes I'm not sure what they keep it for. I figure it's a surfactant.
 
downwardsfromzero
#8 Posted : 11/25/2020 12:15:59 AM

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I'd love to see a picture of your nutmeg absinthe should you find it! My favourite gin, Portobello Road, has a good amount of nutmeg to it.

Ammonia is a general purpose cleaning agent, largely on account of it's basic properties. For that reason it's often sold mixed with soap. The other reason for putting soap in is in order to annoy home chemists.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#9 Posted : 11/25/2020 1:39:07 AM

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I'm aware

let's see. wormwood, hyssop, nutmeg, cinnamon, anise, marjoram, pumpkin spice, black pepper, basil, well, I mean I'm pretty sure you could come up with cool herbs to throw in on a cheap gin base. absinthe is really the only thing liquor was ever supposed to taste like. after that swim made a pure nutmeg batch like you mentioned. that endogenous shulgin thing is supposed to be like affected somehow by the action of the wormwood on the liver, if it is.

yeah. I'm cleaning a bunch of old ovens or something.
 
vixintrex
#10 Posted : 11/26/2020 7:22:51 AM

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I'm thinking if you chill the oil a 35 celsius then boil the oil at 200 then chill down to 0 you can get chunky allylbenzenes to centrifuge maybe
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 11/26/2020 8:38:21 PM

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vixintrex wrote:
I'm thinking if you chill the oil a 35 celsius then boil the oil at 200 then chill down to 0 you can get chunky allylbenzenes to centrifuge maybe

Ha, nope! It's rather more complicated than that. You'd have more luck recovering myristicin from a parsnip.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#12 Posted : 11/27/2020 6:06:36 PM

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ok
 
vixintrex
#13 Posted : 11/28/2020 9:13:59 PM

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yo he really hates to be back here as he did agree to do this on his own head but he's having trouble finding the stuff

it's supposed to be under the water layer, right? everything is above the water layer

he (him) probably should've used an nps instead of acetone for the extract. or water. so uh is the stuff trapped in the gunk for now?

we are in a sep funnel and the extract was a distillation so assuming that the acetone pulled the stuff and the stuff is insoluble in water it should be somewhere around here
 
downwardsfromzero
#14 Posted : 11/29/2020 12:55:06 AM

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Nutmeg essential oil floats on water, like most essential oils do.

Is what stuff trapped in what gunk?


You need to describe your procedure in full detail, from start to finish.

Acetone is miscible with water. Nutmeg allylbenzenes are somewhat soluble in hot water.

Again, what stuff are you looking for?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#15 Posted : 11/29/2020 2:44:54 AM

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he thinks he found it.

allylbenzenes do not float on water but because nutmeg oil is a mess they join up in the non-polar layer on top I thinks

sassafrass doesn't do that

procedure: nps

yo if you in on this site tell me some things like are my edits stored in a backlog and etc like if I delete this post?
 
downwardsfromzero
#16 Posted : 11/30/2020 5:09:30 PM

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vixintrex wrote:
he thinks he found it.

allylbenzenes do not float on water but because nutmeg oil is a mess they join up in the non-polar layer on top I thinks

sassafrass doesn't do that

procedure: nps

yo if you in on this site tell me some things like are my edits stored in a backlog and etc like if I delete this post?

You're posting on a publicly accessible forum. There's every chance this is already being scraped by a bot. Deleting your posts would make my replies pointless, but if I quote you then it becomes my prerogative.

It's a shame you choose to describe nutmeg oil as "a mess". Perhaps you could use more neutral words, like "complex mixture of terpenoids and allylbenzenes". Seeing as this fact has been public knowledge for decades, it confuses me somewhat that you appear to be complaining about it here.

The density of the oxygenated allylbenzenes in question is around 1.1 or so, meaning they would sink in water, and maybe float in brine. It is also correct to say that the mixture found in nutmeg essential oil principally consists of monoterpene hydrocarbons and as a representative density we have β-myrcene with a density of 0.8 and the terpinenes being slightly higher at 0.84 - 0.85. Sabinene, perhaps unsurprisingly, also falls within the latter density range.

Some have reported separating allylbenzenes from terpenes using differential solubility in particular solvents or solvent systems, so that would be worth looking into. Attached, one example gleaned from the web. Perhaps you have already seen that information, but maybe it will inspire you to develop a similar approach towards attaining your goals.

The information is out there, you just need to look for it.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
downwardsfromzero
#17 Posted : 11/30/2020 6:22:02 PM

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vixintrex wrote:
I'm aware

let's see. wormwood, hyssop, nutmeg, cinnamon, anise, marjoram, pumpkin spice, black pepper, basil, well, I mean I'm pretty sure you could come up with cool herbs to throw in on a cheap gin base. absinthe is really the only thing liquor was ever supposed to taste like. after that swim made a pure nutmeg batch like you mentioned. that endogenous shulgin thing is supposed to be like affected somehow by the action of the wormwood on the liver, if it is.

yeah. I'm cleaning a bunch of old ovens or something.

Aha, so this was a home made formula? Was it distilled as well? I would hope so, as non-distilled wormwood extract is a tad bitter and it's not really correct to call that absinthe.

Who supposes what effect wormwood might have on the liver, exactly? Even wormwood tea has some noticeable effect on one's state of consciousness - if you can manage to drink enough of a strong enough brew Laughing The thing is, there is no known enzymatic pathway for the production of phenylisopropylamines from allylbenzenes in humans - or any other organism, for that matter (not counting ephedrine or cathinone). How would any component of wormwood make this any different?

Personally, I'd use something other than cheap gin as a base for absinthe production. For one thing, the % ABV is too low and for another I prefer absinthe without juniper. Artisan absinthe is a whole other world from the crap that you'd get from just soaking herbs in cheap gin.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
vixintrex
#18 Posted : 12/2/2020 4:54:54 AM

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well you know if we were just talking about distilling solvents

you can raid your local not-walmart for like twelve absinthe herbs for twenty five bucks. probably in the Latin section.a marjoram soak or a hyssop soak is cool or a little wormwood. I like wormwood

wormwood has to be bought online or grown. hyssop too. I like don't even know what fennel is but fennel seed is in the Latin section. my attempt to grow wormwood is suxx

you know I would imagine if the shulgin hypothesis as you refer to it as were true wormwood would prevent an allylbenzene from animating by bypassing the liver. alternatively, it would allow it to pass through to do what it may more effectively as itself

I like juniper berries. from here I pass off to you your probably superior knowledge of essential oils for your own absinthe like I read someone used blue lotus? sweet. and you know that soak
 
vixintrex
#19 Posted : 12/2/2020 5:17:57 AM

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the liver bypass is reminiscent for n me of the harmaline pharmacodynamic property inasmuch as it does perhaps could maybe affect some botanicals in their own manners separately but yo instead of harshing me on the incoherence of such a statement lettuce synchronize such separate world's to produce an endomorphic bioenvironment without liver where all amines run rampant so that the very sight of a cabbage leaf will get you high lol

yes no actual profundities preferred wormwood + banisteriopsis

I have one. the specimin. I want to plant it in Florida and harvest the annual trimmings for you~

please excuse grammatical typos
 
downwardsfromzero
#20 Posted : 12/2/2020 12:51:33 PM

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vixintrex wrote:
well you know if we were just talking about distilling solvents

you can raid your local not-walmart for like twelve absinthe herbs for twenty five bucks. probably in the Latin section.a marjoram soak or a hyssop soak is cool or a little wormwood. I like wormwood

wormwood has to be bought online or grown. hyssop too. I like don't even know what fennel is but fennel seed is in the Latin section. my attempt to grow wormwood is suxx

you know I would imagine if the shulgin hypothesis as you refer to it as were true wormwood would prevent an allylbenzene from animating by bypassing the liver. alternatively, it would allow it to pass through to do what it may more effectively as itself

I like juniper berries. from here I pass off to you your probably superior knowledge of essential oils for your own absinthe like I read someone used blue lotus? sweet. and you know that soak

It's only all not-walmarts in my country. Fortunately, I'm well versed in locating the herbs I require. The tea merchant at my local market (an actual weekly market, with stalls and everything) sells wormwood, hyssop, fennel, anise, (you get the picture) so I can in principle make anything anytime. It's simply a matter of motivation and priorities.

Considering how disappointed I was recently to have finished my bottle of Jade 1901, this will be (yet another) of my winter projects to bring forward. First I need to finish building the 36" double coil condenser for my offset still head, however. It doesn't look like there'll be any absinthe in time for "Christmas" although a supermarket here sells something that almost approaches acceptable. The Jade 1901 is/was about two orders of magnitude better though.

Wormwood is or can be tricky to grow. I've always found wild specimens to be growing onvery stony waste ground in what would be relatively dry, temperate locations. I don't know how that would equate to Florida though.

I've a whole load of documentation about allylbenzenes, plant sources and metabolism which I linked to in an earlier post.
Quote:

the liver bypass is reminiscent for n me of the harmaline pharmacodynamic property inasmuch as it does perhaps could maybe affect some botanicals in their own manners separately but yo instead of harshing me on the incoherence of such a statement lettuce synchronize such separate world's to produce an endomorphic bioenvironment without liver where all amines run rampant so that the very sight of a cabbage leaf will get you high lol

yes no actual profundities preferred wormwood + banisteriopsis

I have one. the specimin. I want to plant it in Florida and harvest the annual trimmings for you
Well, firstly. it's not all amines that have these kinds of effects. Consider salvinorin, for example. Then we have fatty acid amides (ok, nitrogen present there but not technically an amine) and monoacylglycerols. It seems that nutmeg interacts with the systems that process one or the other of these and this in turn has an effect on the endocannabinoid system which is responsible for a large part of the central effects of nutmeg.

After working on these matters for some time, it does seem almost like "the very sight of a cabbage leaf" will get me high. I found that a nice effect can be obtained by eating an egg with tomato ketchup the day after using nutmeg, for instance.

Thanks for the kind offer about the plant. I point you in the direction of the Share the Seeds website.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
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