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WARNING: German MHRB not safe! Stay AWAY! Options
 
Brennendes Wasser
#1 Posted : 11/17/2020 8:58:38 AM

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Hello all, I have an urgent warning:


Obviously in Europe it is possible to order MHRB from Netherlands, but also since quite some years it is simply offered on Ebay also in Germany, stating that there is no conflict in laws if it is only used as a dye.

This way a lot of shops offered MHRB products for regular sale. THIS IS NOT SAFE ANYMORE.

Already in 2018 a Shop was closed and the owner possibly now in Jail. All his clients are now being accused for the possession of controlled substances. They are accused just by the fact that they made an order in this shop.

Now comes the thrilling part:

The amount of DMT, which will exceed the *low volume* and thus will greatly potentiaty any juristic sentence, was stated to 3,6 g of Freebase in 2013. This is highly debatable, because it was not based on scientific data and only based on the inhalation administration, which will create many more doses per total weight.

Still this is then used to determine the height of the shop's customers sentence, converting 100 % of the potential ingredients into substance possession.

A sample of the shop MHRB was sent to the University of Saarland to determine a content.

They grinded it and did an Ethanol soak, afterwards they applied it into Gas Chromatography, which granted a content of 3,09 % of DMT ?!?

This means that even buying a small amount of 120 g treebark now will make you being in possession of more than the *low volume*, which will mean 1 year of jail.

All the people who ordered 1 kg of Treebark from this shop, which seems a very common ordering size, are now accused of possessing more than 8x this critical amount, which equals 1300 LSD Tabs or 1600 XTC tabletts for example.


This is insane and means that if this shop was already raided in 2018, no other shops are safe as the tree bark is directly regarded as the controlled substance.

Also if that shop's customers are now receiving letters from police, even more may come in for other people, who from shops that may have beeen closed since now.

I highly want to warn anybody at least in Germany to not ever buy any bark. The fines are immense and a root bark worth less than 50 € may already cause jail.

Please stay safe, not only due to Corona Virus!


(Too bad my Post #500 is about this topic)
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endlessness
#2 Posted : 11/17/2020 12:13:03 PM

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Thanks for trying to warn others about dangers, this is def important and german people should keep in mind.

That being said, for this and other reasons we've completely removed any talk about sourcing of dried plant material like MHRB.

I edited your post to remove some of the more specific comments regarding the shop, please lets avoid any such mentions and keep this thread as a warning and only for legal discussion.
 
Loveall
#3 Posted : 11/17/2020 1:58:21 PM

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With all due respect, I'm a little confused.

Are people really being sent to jail, or is this just the police sending out strongly worded harrasment letters? Do you have any outside sources regarding this situation?

DMT is generally beneficial for humans when taken responsibly as I understand the current scientific research (for example ayahuasca church members show 40% improved memory over the general population). Are the German authorities really going to destroy people's lives and tear apart families over some 2+ year old plant material?

I understand the answer could be yes and don't want anyone to take the situation lightly. Just looking for clarity on what is exactly happening. Thank you.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
null24
#4 Posted : 11/17/2020 4:37:35 PM

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I'm cofused by the wording of the post as well. If it's a German prosecution, I do not see how anyone outside Germany could be charged. Doubt an extradition order will be signed over something like that.

That said, I have been warning people for some time to only order domestically if they use mail. Having things go through customs is a good way to get caught and in the states, they don't bother testing substances purity, only qualitiative tests are used in prosecutions, meaning 100 grams bark=100 grams processed freebase for prosecutorial purposes.

How useful this advice is is now in question at least for Germans.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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downwardsfromzero
#5 Posted : 11/17/2020 8:15:49 PM

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Quote:
Are the German authorities really going to destroy people's lives and tear apart families over some 2+ year old plant material?

Yes, they really are that petty and wrapped up in the drug law rhetoric. Freedom here to drink alcohol and smoke tobacco only. Of course, anything constituting self-incrimination should be avoided. Do not say anything to the police without legal advice - and any good legal advice will tell you not to say anything to the police. It seems very likely to me that the first step taken by law enforcement is sending a letter of harassment - or is the purchase record being considered sufficient to warrant physical intrusion into people's lives, BW?
The people behind these decisions have names and faces and their role in this perpetuation of injustice deserves to be exposed.


I'm presuming the shop that was closed in 2018 was based in Germany?

Brennendes Wasser - do you have any links to media coverage, court reports and/or the relevant legislation (BtmG, or something else?); also for the Saarland Uni analysis?

Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
fatherseb
#6 Posted : 11/17/2020 8:45:01 PM

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Hí,
this is exactly what happened to me in December 2019. Must be the same vendor in germany.
As you mentioned, harsh letter from the police and so on.
Long story short, I got a lawyer and did not speak a word to the police. After three months charges were dropped.
All in all a bad experience.
Stay save everyone!
 
potnoble
#7 Posted : 11/18/2020 9:17:26 AM

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Hello everybody

Keep in mind if you live in the south of germany they will probably search your house.
They will also charge you for an empty container if there are trace amounts of anything.
Stupidity at its best.
Good friend of mine payed 800 Euros for a bag that formerly contained weed.


Stay safe everybody
Psychedelic drugs don´t change you, they don´t change your character,
unless you want to be changed. They enable change. They can´t impose it.
Alexander Shulgin
 
null24
#8 Posted : 11/18/2020 3:35:31 PM

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Thanks for reminding me of something I have to be grateful for.
null24 attached the following image(s):
81ZYBoCIM2L._AC_UL1500_.jpg (129kb) downloaded 120 time(s).
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KuzeMaf
#9 Posted : 11/18/2020 5:47:45 PM

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Such a waste of law enforcement and tax revenue...

Oregon is proving to be the first state willing to display it's enlightenment. To that I say bravo!Thumbs up
 
Brennendes Wasser
#10 Posted : 11/18/2020 6:22:09 PM

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null24 wrote:
I'm cofused by the wording of the post as well. If it's a German prosecution, I do not see how anyone outside Germany could be charged. Doubt an extradition order will be signed over something like that. How useful this advice is is now in question at least for Germans.


True, this will at the first point only stick to German people, even though people from abroad also bought from that Ebay Shop. I have a lot of information on that specific case.



Quote:
It seems very likely to me that the first step taken by law enforcement is sending a letter of harassment - or is the purchase record being considered sufficient to warrant physical intrusion into people's lives, BW?
The people behind these decisions have names and faces and their role in this perpetuation of injustice deserves to be exposed.


I'm presuming the shop that was closed in 2018 was based in Germany?

Brennendes Wasser - do you have any links to media coverage, court reports and/or the relevant legislation (BtmG, or something else?); also for the Saarland Uni analysis?


Yes the shop was closed in 2018. Ebay gave over any information of people that bought there, 700 people from Germany and 200 from abroad. Based on that 3,09 % a purchase of 150+ g MHRB will be regarded as major volume possession.

I could give quite much information about this case, as I know the facts from the closest possible. But not sure if I should write that down already.
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
Jagube
#11 Posted : 11/18/2020 7:30:26 PM

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IIRC good bark can contain 3% DMT, so that 3.09% is not that far off, although this particular bark may have been less DMT rich. The ethanol soak was probably very impure, but also not 100% efficient if it was just one pull.

Regardless, it's a very sad story.
 
downwardsfromzero
#12 Posted : 11/19/2020 7:13:55 PM

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Thanks for filling in a bit more, BW. I'd be very interested in seeing an anonymised outline of the case and links to publicly available information as this type of cognitive liberty issue relates directly to my ongoing interest in the interface between plants, consciousness, chemistry and society. It's a(n ugly) facet of European ethnopharmacology.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
 
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