The Mass of the Phoenix - my final jouney into the abyss Options
#41 Posted : 2/8/2012 7:51:13 PM

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I have seen that a lot of others have gone to this place not through the process that I have used but by others. I think such experiments show the psychological power of mind altering drugs to reset the mind and de condition a person. Many who have lived traumatic lives could be greatly benefited from this. While the body is not lost I feel strongly even to this day that this experiment completely changed my perceptions of the world in a very fundamental way. What people call my distinct perspective did not exist before. I literally see a completely different world and in truth I wish I didnt. It's not pretty to see things without being able to hide at least some of the ugliness that lies in the minds and the hearts of humanity. That's the problem with things like this, you can un experience it.
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#42 Posted : 2/8/2012 8:37:26 PM

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Wow what a beautifully written report, Very moving indeed.

I really just enjoyed how you explained, how things didn't fully register, and everything was almost brand new to you.

And how you described your senses were almost deprived, i could only imagine being in a tank, with no sensory input.

surely things could of been taken safer, but it surely seemed like you had everything pretty prepared, as far as making a struggle to get back to your house, could of been planned, but these things happened, we certainly can't be prepared for everything, because that would mean we know everything there is to expect come or happen.

any who, is was a great read and Thank you for sharing. Smile
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#43 Posted : 2/10/2012 8:19:37 PM

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Got tears reading it all, you are an amazing man! I would love to hang out with people like you

#44 Posted : 6/18/2013 4:17:29 PM

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I'm sorry for re-opening this old thread, and possibly old wounds for the OP, but I have a theory as to what he experienced. It's just a theory, but it's the best I can come up with.

So, in the New Age beliefs (and in a lot of DMT users, from what I've read), God just wanted to "experience" itself, so he created the various realms. Before the time of creation, he existed, but he was not experiencing anything. There was the Big Nothing everywhere he looked. He was experiencing nothingness.

Now, another belief that many people have, is that "we're made of energy". Energy is what created us. In the New Age beliefs, objects can accumulate good or bad energy. In order to clear up energy from an object, you either have to project the opposite energy to it, or to simply bath it in salt. Salt has this attribute, that can weaken/remove/transform energy.

So when you took long bath salts, I think you've weakened your life force, your soul. I'd say that it was the bath salts that created this experience, DMT only made it more visual. I'd avoid bath salts more than anything else in the world...

So I believe that what you experienced was time before the creation. This goes far further than what some people experience: semi-nothingness with the accompany of some evil presence, because for evil to exist, Creation should have already existed too. You went truly too far, at a Time where God didn't experience itself. This is why you had such a hard time integrating back to your sensory inputs of your body, because this was all so new to you. You jumped from Nothing, to 13 billion years in the future (in terms of Evolving Experience).

Anyways, that's my theory... I hope you're feeling better! Any news on your book?
#45 Posted : 6/18/2013 11:32:19 PM


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Handel wrote:
I'm sorry for re-opening this old thread, and possibly old wounds for the OP, but I have a theory as to what he experienced.

i am sure you're not opening any wounds for the OP , as the title states - this is the mass of the Phoenix , this report is to help people understand the seriousness of the path they are choosing ,

not a bad theory , i am sure all that surely happened and perhaps a little more than all of that put together ,

the trip report by Vovin is one of the most brilliant words of wisdom written anywhere , i have read this thread over and over many times , and learned a lot , surely it will help you too
illusions !, there are no illusions
there is only that which is the truth
#46 Posted : 1/6/2018 4:58:00 AM

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Thanks for sharing your experience, Vovin. I realize this thread it quite old now, but I thought I would still comment on it.

As I read through your account I actually got a little scared for you. You really pushed the envelope with everything there, one thing stacked on top of another, stacked on top of another (in terms of the fasting, float tank, computer monitor with imagery, binaural waterproof headphones, sweat lodge, etc. etc.) I wondered what you were looking for, or hoping to find, with such extremes.

Your experience in the black "sea of darkness" (the abyss) is one I vaguely remember myself before I was born, if you can believe that sort of thing (i.e.,vague, pre-birth psychedelic memories, coupled with scattered imagery of past lives). I revisited the lonely sea of darkness in an iboga ceremony where I was sure I'd died, and I found it striking how you called that place the same thing as I experienced: A sea of darkness, infinite and devoid of anything or anyone else but a 'awareness' with no concept of 'I'.

Through my ayahuasca and iboga experiences, I've come to believe that ultimately, behind all appearances of form and "beings," there is really only an infinite, intelligence awareness playing a sincere game of illusion with Itself. We are not separate from this force; we are It. In other words, there is only ever one of us in all times and places whatsoever, and through a process we do not understand nor need to understand, we are a being with an infinite number of points of awareness, only we can only experience them one at a time. I am you, you are me, and we are everywhere. Linear time is a particular perspective that allows us to experience the duality of separateness.

The sea of darkness, or however the experience of aloneness with the 'central self' comes on, is as natural a dimension to being God as sleeping and waking up are to being a human being. We naturally go through phases and we see phases around us everywhere in the cosmos: asleep; awake; alive; dead; duality; non duality. We might describe a shamanic death experience using different words or symbology, but your experience seems to closely mirror my own shamanic death experience with iboga, and places I've gotten to in the Bardo realm with ayahuasca.

You're a good writer. Happy New Year. Namaste!
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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#47 Posted : 11/13/2020 1:02:50 PM

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Old thread but anyway:

I know of a Lakota representative who was very much inclined with protection, healing and purification routines, he lived the red path seriously. He went to South America several times to connect the North with the South, to connect the eagle with the condor flying together.
This he would also express in merging the traditions, so he set up for ayahuasca in a sweat lodge and it was not a success, they had to carry him outside. So there is no blame in failing, it was not fault by lack of preparation or gathering spiritual powers. There just are some limits.

I did modest doses of shrooms in sweat lodge with no problem, but some attendees lost track of the ritual and group energy. No emergencies at all but the group/session vibe got broken up by some drifting away individually. The first 2 rounds were okay, 3 and 4 fell apart sort of.
Redosing in that heat did not worked out well for me, it came across as tolerance. Granted this were lower doses than sober shrooms doses for obvious reasons.

The best co-axing for sweat lodges I found in cacti. Also combines good with sauna's Thumbs up
#48 Posted : 11/16/2020 5:10:57 AM

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Well thanks for reviving it, enjoyed the read. Hope the OP is doing well these days
At the center of this existence, it is everything and nothing, all of us and each of us and none of us. My light is now lit, and it cannot be extinguished.
#49 Posted : 12/18/2020 1:41:38 AM

Hello world!

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Impresive is the ability for you to recover, there is an infinite well of wellness waiting for each pure soul. And new paths to be explored Smile
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