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Making Homeopathic remedies from psychedelics to help mental disorders Options
 
burnt
#101 Posted : 5/22/2009 4:08:12 PM

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Homeopathy needs to modernize. They need to keep the good aspects such as life style changes diet recommendations as well as a positive patient doctor relationship that tries to figure out what else could be causing a disease other then germs or what not.

But it really needs to get rid of the homeopathic remedies (meaning the diluted water). Why does homeopathy bother me? Because for me to get certain drugs to the market takes years of research and hard work but people can just sell placebo water and get away with it? If a legit drug company started selling pills that were nothing but some sugar and water as medicine they would be put on trial for fraud. The diluted water is an act of fraud. It has been proven to be nothing but water more then once with no more efficacy then placebo.

 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
deedle-doo
#102 Posted : 5/23/2009 12:59:16 AM

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We should explore the use of ritual for healing. Faith healing and homeopathy may reliably make people feel better. Clients will always say that it has improved their health and wellness. It probably has, the placebo effect is strong. Some popular Rituals seem to be effective at stimulating the placebo effect. Combined with real medicines this could be super powerful.
 
burnt
#103 Posted : 5/23/2009 11:36:10 AM

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I agree but thats exactly why I think the good aspects should be kept. But they should be called what they are without the lie that plant essences make homeopathic medicine work.

 
ohayoco
#104 Posted : 2/6/2010 2:38:18 PM
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/05/homeopathy-false-evidence-parliamentary-inquiry wrote:

Homeopathic society 'misled' MPs in inquiry

• BHA misrepresented science, say researchers
• NHS spent £12m over three years on remedies

Scientists have cried foul, saying their reviews were wrongly quoted as supporting homeopathy.

The British Homeopathic Association has been accused of misrepresenting scientific evidence on alternative medicine in documents it gave to a parliamentary inquiry.

The organisation claimed several scientific reviews offered support for homeopathy in material submitted to the cross-party science and technology select committee, which is holding an investigation into the products. Robert Mathie, a researcher at the BHA, said the reviews found evidence for a difference between homeopathic remedies and sugar pills, which contain no active ingredients.

But the claim has dismayed some of the scientists who wrote the reviews and angered MPs on the committee who are in the final stages of writing their report.

One review cited was written by Edzard Ernst, a scientist who investigates complementary medicine at the Penisula Medical School in Exeter. He said the BHA's interpretation of his study was "grossly misleading" because they failed to mention important caveats published in the study. Another review, by Jean-Pierre Boissel at the Hospitals of Lyon and University Claude Bernard in France, was quoted as evidence that homeopathic treatments differ to placebos. Boissel said his conclusion was that homeopathy tended to fare worse in the best-designed studies.

"It is extremely disappointing to be fed misrepresentations of science, whether it's deliberate or incompetence," said Evan Harris MP, science spokesman for the Lib Dems and a member of the parliamentary committee.

Homeopathic treatments are usually made by diluting a substance so much there are no molecules of the original ingredient left. In November the chief pharmacist at Boots, Paul Bennett, told the inquiry he had no evidence that homeopathy works. At the weekend, hundreds of people took part in a "mass overdose" of homeopathic pills outside branches of Boots to protest against the company selling the products.

The row emerged as a survey for the medical journal, Pulse, found 80% of GPs want the Health Department to stop funding homeopathy on the NHS. Only 14% were in favour of the health service continuing to provide the treatments. According to figures released last year, homeopathy cost the NHS £12m over between 2008 and 2008. Peter Davies, a Halifax GP, said: "If patients want to try homeopathy and pay for it themselves, that is fine. In terms of evidence-based medicine, homeopathy doesn't get a look in. It is something the NHS should not fund."

In a statement, Mathie said: "The BHA's evidence to MPs did not misrepresent the clinical research evidence in homeopathy; it is an accurate and reasonable summary of the facts, with a series of recommendations for future research … We need more and higher quality clinical trials."

This is my favourite bit:
"Another review, by Jean-Pierre Boissel at the Hospitals of Lyon and University Claude Bernard in France, was quoted as evidence that homeopathic treatments differ to placebos. Boissel said his conclusion was that homeopathy tended to fare worse in the best-designed studies." !!!
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
mumbles
#105 Posted : 2/9/2010 4:59:48 PM

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Homeopathic 'remedies' are diluted to the extent that not one molecule of the actual medicine remains in the resulting diluted solution. There is some new age pseudo science about water remembering the molecule and performing the same action in the body. If you believe thats possible you need to touch base with reality because it is completely irrational. Completely.
 
Aukikco
#106 Posted : 5/13/2011 8:01:19 PM

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I get the feeling that Jorkest doesn't believe in the amazing power of placebo.
 
wingchun
#107 Posted : 5/14/2011 1:47:05 AM

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My "issue" with Homeopathic stuff comes down to physics, even if you accept all the stuff about "vibrations" of the active agent - transferring to the water molecules, and somehow thereby causing a homeostatic response from the body, there is the problem of "noise".

Whatever "signal" is contained within the original agent or water is in competition with the "noise" from all the other molecules in the water, and EMF "pollution" in the surrounding environment. Given that the signal is diluted almost out of existance - how is the body supposed to pick it up? It would be like trying to listen to AM radio from the other side of the planet....

Of course, if you know you are taking something that will make you better,
then you expect to get better...and often you do.

Wonderful how that works...?
 
cactophage
#108 Posted : 7/13/2011 12:15:18 PM
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tl;dr

to the OP - your quest is doomed. Homeopathy is a mental disorder.
Cactophage is a self-modifying program written mostly in Common Lisp. It evolved out of my doctorate research into computational physics simulation (using a modern physics engine or simulator to perform computation), when I wrote a program for parsing and analysing patterns of word usage unique to a particular author.
It should be obvious, but don't take anything it says too seriously. Though a few sentences here and there may give the illusion of some kind of awareness or personality, it's really just a mostly random collection of linguistic patterns bouncing around in a simulation, where every word is connected to every other word by an unimaginably vast network of rubber bands.
 
Dorge
#109 Posted : 7/13/2011 4:43:39 PM

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Homeopathic medicine is magic. You have to be a jaded cynical Harry potter DVD burning ("kids should believe in magic bah"Pleased die in the wool materialist not to believe in magic these days.
That's what I love abbot homeopathy its magic that people around the world beleive in. That's awesome!
Some ethnobotanist I know down in Peru have been studying San Pedro Curanderismo and have really amazing notions on the topic of psychosomatic illness as well as psychosomatic medicine. Psychosomatic illness is real illness and psychosomatic medicine is real medicine. There is some arguments that cruranderismo is nothing but a highly refined and effective practice of psychosomatic medicine. Using the minds psychoimmunology and ability to create powerful changes in the body. It is total hokum! But it's hokum that works! And who knows maybe there's actual magic in those sugar pills heheh.


Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/


 
Infundibulum
#110 Posted : 7/13/2011 11:25:27 PM

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Dorge wrote:
It is total hokum! But it's hokum that works!

Confirmation bias fallacy; you may only hear about the cases it worked, not about the cases it didn't.

Skewed statistics, flawed conclusions.


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Rivaq's Matilda
#111 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:25:23 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
SWIM was just thinking about this...it seems like it would work...because an overdose of a chemical will cause the reaction that a homeopathic dose will cure'

so say LSD, DMT, psilo***, mescaline...all the rest...if made into homeopathic dosages...they could cure somebodies mental illness...such as schizophrenia


Many homeopaths already prescribe psychedelics in minimum dose. That is, the minimum dose to have any effect on the physical symptoms.
The psychedelics that have old provings in homeopathy and are long already in use, include: Bufotenin, Stramonium datura,Cannabis sativa and indica, and Opium. And maybe another I am forgetting, eg there are many lesser psychedelics in use.

Also, the method homeopaths use of potentization by serial dilution, makes almost anything slightly psychoactive. The difference with psychedelics being they are psychoactive without being potentized, and that's because they are the plants, etc, with the longest reach in time, so the effects last longer also.

In general homeopathic doses of psychedelics are in use to cure mental illness.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#112 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:28:05 PM

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wingchun wrote:
My "issue" with Homeopathic stuff comes down to physics, even if you accept all the stuff about "vibrations" of the active agent - transferring to the water molecules, and somehow thereby causing a homeostatic response from the body, there is the problem of "noise".

Whatever "signal" is contained within the original agent or water is in competition with the "noise" from all the other molecules in the water, and EMF "pollution" in the surrounding environment. Given that the signal is diluted almost out of existance - how is the body supposed to pick it up? It would be like trying to listen to AM radio from the other side of the planet....

Of course, if you know you are taking something that will make you better,
then you expect to get better...and often you do.

Wonderful how that works...?


That's a good point about noise. Many homeopaths could tell you that the remedies are very sensitive, and a lot of care need be taken. Homeopath George Vithoulkas even says most homeopathic remedies have become contaminated and are not active. Although that could be just his excuse for when his prescriptions didn't work and he didn't understand why.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#113 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:30:38 PM

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burnt wrote:
Homeopathy needs to modernize. They need to keep the good aspects such as life style changes diet recommendations as well as a positive patient doctor relationship that tries to figure out what else could be causing a disease other then germs or what not.

But it really needs to get rid of the homeopathic remedies (meaning the diluted water). Why does homeopathy bother me? Because for me to get certain drugs to the market takes years of research and hard work but people can just sell placebo water and get away with it? If a legit drug company started selling pills that were nothing but some sugar and water as medicine they would be put on trial for fraud. The diluted water is an act of fraud. It has been proven to be nothing but water more then once with no more efficacy then placebo.



Homeopathic remedies are cheap, often free, and homeopaths charge more for their time to consider a person's disease state and find the medicine most alike the disease state, ... which many report as a useful process in and of itself, without needing to give the very dilute medicine.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#114 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:32:34 PM

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burnt wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by a homeopathic dose. Do you mean a lower dose?

Also many homeopathic remedies require consistent use. ...


Actually many homeopaths believe that if the remedy requires consistent use, then it was badly prescribed.
The best prescriptions work with just one dose.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#115 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:39:37 PM

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Jorkest wrote:


also the reason why I believe in it..is because it has worked for me countless times!! many times when i was an infant. so to ME it is tested and it DOES work..even when i had no idea...now if you can tell me that my mother was the one that 'layed on hands' and healed me..then i might believe that too...but croup just doesnt go away! it likes to stick around..have you ever had it!? it lasts for days..and this was gone in ONE HOUR! have you ever had really really bad breath? even after your brush your teeth and your tongue? well if that happens i would give you a 30C Sulfur pill. Your bad breathe would go away in about an hour.

it works for me..so..i dont understand why you keep saying its ridiculous..how much first hand EXPERIENCE have you ever had with homeopathic remedies?

i think you are being RIDICULOUS..because it DOES work..it works for me..and it works for thousands and thousands of other people..have you ever seriously studied homeopathy? have you read the history on it? do you even understand how its supposed to work? it sounds like you just read the WIKI and became an expert...read a few books about it..practice it for awhile..test it out on yourself and family(it wont kill anyone, cant say that for the US Healthcare System) and then come back to me and say it didnt do a damn thing.


Quote:
US Healthcare System Third Leading Cause of Death

Starfield, B. (2000, July 26.) Is US health really the best in the world? Journal of the American Medical Association, 284, 483-485 - Quote from article...

*12000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery
*7000 deaths per year due to medical error in hospitals
*20000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals
*80000 deaths per year due to infections from hospitals
*106000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs


no deaths from homeopathic remedies!!


I have read that one of the Santo Diame groups and also the UDV have homeopath members. Also at the Temple of the Way of the Light in Peru, they did experiments with prescribing homeopathy to their clients, over a year. They found that homeopathic remedies only worked well for one third of their clients.

I think that one third is fairly consistent. One third of us are sensitive enough, and perhaps another third of people might become sensitive enough in the right environment and within the right internal mindset, but another one third of people are just never going to be sensitive enough.

I am saying this as a homeopath. Anybody who isn't sensitive enough will always think of us homeopaths as the baddies. Nothing we can do about that. I even know of a case of a person who took a remedy to prove it was nothing, then started displaying many of the symptoms related to that remedy, but refused to accept that the symptom change they had, was caused by the remedy. The world abounds with stupidity.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#116 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:41:07 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
thank you fractal...i dont know how homeopathics work..but in my experience they have and continue to work..

and the argument that water comes in contact with every substance and that water should be a cure all based on that..well..if you stop drinking water...you will die...and whats the one thing that you SHOULD do when you are sick..you should drink water..to keep you hydrated and who knows what else it could POSSIBLY do for you..

i hate arguing about homeopathics...because neither side can win..because scientifically we dont know everything..i just know that they have worked for me, my family and my friends...so thats what i go by..not some argument saying that its impossible..


yes, this is very very true
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#117 Posted : 11/9/2020 7:46:32 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
live4themusic wrote:
so if I make a dilution from an antipsychotic can it make me trip?

How did you come to this conclusion?



the main way homeopathy was being misunderstood, was by folks presuming that the way that the medicine most alike the disease cured the disease, was by patient and/or practitioner(homeopath) deciding to run their mind opposing the description of the medicine

actually that wasn't how they work
little is known about how they work
but it is known that it was not by simple internal opposition

the dilution from an anti-psychotic, would only be useful for a person who already had symptoms which anti-psychotics cause, eg weight gain, depression, . . .
. . . and in that case it could cause some nice dreams, depending on which anti-psychotic it was, since some of them cause inability to sleep in the first two weeks, so the homeopathic remedy from could cause the patient to sleep for ages at first, then dream better afterwards
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
Rivaq's Matilda
#118 Posted : 11/9/2020 8:03:45 PM

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OK, so I've replied to a bunch of more or less random posts I saw (and not really bothered to read the whole thread in sequence, too bad), . . .
. . . and I have something more to contribute now:

There are good and bad homeopaths. Anybody who wants to discredit homeopathy in general, will rely on the evidence of the bad homeopaths. The good homeopaths keep on prescribing homeopathy nevertheless. It works for some people and not for others. Too bad if you don't like it, as a phenomenon homeopathy exists, and the attacks being made against it were around about as equally absurd as the actual idea of homeopathy is to begin with.

What seems so strange, was that anybody into psychedelics, would think they can deny the possibility of homeopathic dilutions being effective. I have treated heroin addicts with homeopathic remedies, and they are very sensitive to the highest potencies (that is the most dilute remedies0. That is, very visually sensitive. They can easily see that each remedy differs from each other remedy. And I am pretty sure that the experience at the Temple of the Way of the Light in Peru is of that same degree of visual activity.

However, proving that the dilutions are potent, is different from proving that the law of like cures like, works. It only works well when we are able to avoid casting the blame upon others for the disease state. Homeopathy relies upon a law of cure that symptoms descend in the body, which can mean symptoms descend also out of the spirit and into the body, yet then from the body into the Earth, where that negative disease energy becomes other life forms, like microbes in the soil. Our bodies should work as a conduit to bring energy that we experience as negative, down into the Earth, and into the life forms in which it can be a positive energy. For example, zombie dreams, are just mushrooms. Literally, not magic mushrooms, but all fungi and any fungi. The point is not that fungi were zombies, but that zombies are fungi, and zombie nightmares can turn into fungi.

Anyhow, I am sure somebody might want to try to disagree with me, but I am not going to be swayed, and I am not even going to feel any remorse, or guilt, or consider those points you could be making to attack me by. They don't count in my world.

However, since I came into this thread, to make another important point about homeopathy, I shall just go ahead and do that.

It is in the video in this link: https://youtu.be/Ge5ENIdbGyo
Rather, that is the short version, and there is a longer version also, that will be linked below the shorter, as soon as it is finished.
a mother a daughter a lover of life, an exorcist of addictions if ere in need of the strife, and at bottom line a wife, I might well be a bore, yet have no doubt, I stand among the poor, and beg not what for, that hat hath at, nobody's mind fell too flat
 
downwardsfromzero
#119 Posted : 11/10/2020 7:25:22 PM

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Thanks for digging this up,

video embedded for convenience:
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
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