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5-HO-DMT (Bufotenin) from Serotonin Options
 
wikipedia
#1 Posted : 8/31/2020 3:57:24 PM
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Looking at the two molecules, serotonin, a common neurotransmitter and one of the most potent psychedelics in the world, bufotenin aka 5-HO-DMT are very similar, just with the two nitrogens replaced with methyl groups.

Thus, could a substance such as Iodomethane or S-Adenosyl methionine be used to convert this readily available neurotransmitter into bufotenin via methylation?

Legally, of course.
 

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xdragon
#2 Posted : 8/31/2020 7:23:00 PM

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https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...chemicals_and_procedures
Most, if not all, useful methylation agents will give you cancer. You don't want methylated DNA, trust me.

To still answer your question: obviously it is possible (for a trained chemist), but it would require protection/deprotection of the phenol group. Furthermore, tryptamine chemistry can be rough sometimes. So in short: as long as you have to ask about it, forget about doing it. And even if you know the theory, it's still a bit of a way - and this is clearly the wrong site to discuss things like that Pleased

Also, Serotonin isn't easy to acquire in meaningful quantities, unless I am missing something. Getting access to bufotenin-containing plants (or animals) is easier, as far as I am aware.
 
dithyramb
#3 Posted : 8/31/2020 7:31:30 PM

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İs there anybody familiar with the effects of bufotenine in any form of administration? İ would like to be able to differentiate it from the other tryptamines in experiences of plants that are said to possibly contain it together with other tryptamines.
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

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xdragon
#4 Posted : 8/31/2020 7:43:16 PM

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If you have access to suitable pure compounds, TLC (thin layer chromatography) is a very good method to assess the purity of your extracts. As psychedelic experiences will always be very subjective, judging the purity/alkaloid profile of any drug/plant/whatever [by bioassay] is not a clever way to go about things. And it can be very harmful, considering the different toxicity profiles of common tryptamines like bufotenin, 5-MeO-DMT and DMT.
 
downwardsfromzero
#5 Posted : 8/31/2020 9:44:45 PM

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We won't be talking about iodomethane here:
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...chemicals_and_procedures
[EDIT: got distracted during composing this post and someone beat me to it!]

S-Adenosyl methionine is one possibility for a methyl source during biosynthesis. INMT will catalyse the transfer of methyl groups onto the side-chain nitrogen. This likely occurs after the decarboxylation of 5-HTP to serotonin, in analogy with formation of DMT and psilocybin.

Some reading material attached...




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Brennendes Wasser
#6 Posted : 9/1/2020 9:39:34 PM

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Just as a side note: Unlike Tryptophane, 5-HTP gets destroyed when trying to decarboxylate it with any common method. That phenolic OH- really is a bitch!
 
xdragon
#7 Posted : 9/1/2020 9:54:23 PM

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As 5-MeO-tryptophan can be decarboxylated, I would guess that decarboxylation of a suitable protected phenol group is achievable as well. But then again, none of this is the kind of chemistry welcomed here..
 
downwardsfromzero
#8 Posted : 9/3/2020 7:41:04 PM

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Brennendes Wasser wrote:
Just as a side note: Unlike Tryptophane, 5-HTP gets destroyed when trying to decarboxylate it with any common method. That phenolic OH- really is a bitch!

Yep. Living systems do some pretty impressive chemistry with their enzymes that we find hard to brute-force in the reaction vessel.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
 
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