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The Ultimate False Dichotomy Options
 
Grey Fox
#1 Posted : 7/8/2020 11:13:21 AM

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An ancient fallacy holds sway, even to modern times. It is a fundamental presuppostion that is also a false dichotomy. Worldviews are built upon this lie.

The lie is that mind and body are separate.

For mind and body are not two separate entities. Rather, the two are one. They can never be divided. Any such division is false. It is a complete misunderstanding of reality.

Consciousness does not exist anywhere other than in the firing of neurons, which are kept alive by and inexorably linked to a beating heart, and breathing lungs, and filtering kidneys, and etc, etc., etc.

"Consciousness" is nothing more than a projection, made by a powerful organ within our bodies, in which we process input from our sensory organs and filter that input through experience and instinct in order to make sense of the world we live in so that we may survive and prosper.

"You" are your body, as it expresses itself and functions through the organ of its brain. "You" and your body are one.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 

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Loveall
#2 Posted : 7/8/2020 12:05:15 PM

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Grey Fox wrote:
Consciousness does not exist anywhere other than in the firing of neurons, which are kept alive by and inexorably linked to a beating heart, and breathing lungs, and filtering kidneys, and etc, etc., etc.


Maybe this is true. But how do we know for sure? There is room for other posibilities, I think. For example, the hard problem of consciousness indicates that conciousness may not arise from a mechanical system such as a biological one. Instead, conciousness could be fundamental and not reducible or emergent from matter (kind of like you need a fundamental new gluon particle to explain the proton and can't explain it using electromagnetism alone).

Some interpretations of quantum mechanics also allow the possibility that conciousness is not one with the biological matter of the brain.

In other models, the brain is only a receiver of consciousness - kind of like a radio playing music even though the radio itself cannot generate it.

There's also the alternative option that we haven't yet come up with the true theory of consciousness (reality is weirder than what we can suppose, etc).

I don't think we know what is the true origin of consciousness. We can contemplate different scenarios, but claiming that we know one particular scenario to be correct is premature in my opinion.
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Exitwound
#3 Posted : 7/8/2020 2:38:30 PM

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Grey Fox wrote:

Consciousness does not exist anywhere other than in the firing of neurons, which are kept alive by and inexorably linked to a beating heart, and breathing lungs, and filtering kidneys, and etc, etc., etc.

"Consciousness" is nothing more than a projection, made by a powerful organ within our bodies, in which we process input from our sensory organs and filter that input through experience and instinct in order to make sense of the world we live in so that we may survive and prosper.


I think that these statements are false.

I think that consciousness, or "observer", is tethered to "you" and your mind-body, but it isn't hiding anywhere inside of our 3D space-time, it's outside of it.

Quote:

"You" are your body, as it expresses itself and functions through the organ of its brain. "You" and your body are one.


Here I agree, but partially. Me (human being/ego) and my body are the one, but what if a procedure to transplant human head to another natural or artificial body is invented. What would I be after such procedure? Different consciousness or different "me"? I don't know.

There has been a very interesting book mentioned here by someone, which I took up to reading: https://en.wikipedia.org...took_His_Wife_for_a_Hat

Medical cases described there show how depended our mind is on proper sensoric input from the body.

Loveall wrote:

There's also the alternative option that we haven't yet come up with the true theory of consciousness (reality is weirder than what we can suppose, etc).


I root for this variant. We just don't know yet what consciousness is and maybe we won't ever get to "know" Smile
 
dragonrider
#4 Posted : 7/8/2020 4:24:26 PM

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I also think we don't realy know.

It could be that grey fox is right, but it could also be that, like loveall sugested, the body is a receiver, though i don't think that is very plausible.

Another option is that the body is an avatar of some kind, and counsciousness is connected to it, just like in here you are connected to your username.

Maybe if you would stay online for long enough, at some point you would forget about the world outside and become your username.
 
Justsomedude
#5 Posted : 7/8/2020 4:55:56 PM

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I can find myself in agreement with this post.

The "me" that is here right now, is shaped and built by the physical experience, I have always viewed my "self" and my body as one and the same. Thus I aimed/aim to build a body that represents my psyche.

I am also willing to believe, as scientifically unfounded as it is, that our "consciousness" can persist after death.
 
Jees
#6 Posted : 7/8/2020 5:26:52 PM

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OP is handling 'mind', 'consciousness' and 'you' as all the same and this is put in relation to 'body' (does that include aura, and how far?). Later posts add 'me' and 'self'.
There is a plethora of possible interpretations for each and every one of them.
Making a fixed and firm THIS is like THAT with such a volatile set of ingredients?

dragonrider wrote:
...I also think we don't realy know...

If we only knew what we're talking about.

Sorry for being a kill-joy Embarrased

 
Kumarajiva
#7 Posted : 7/8/2020 5:41:52 PM

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Both body and mind are localized projections of indescribable process that is going behind the curtains.
There is no dichotomy as both mind and body are synchronized to and modulated by this process. Neither of them has higher priority.
Unfortunately i cannot support this claim by anything other than metaphor, and can only give this obscure reference, as any
attempt to prove my claim would have to be done using facilities that either mind or body operate with,
and the origin of both lies beyond those. Any attempt to factualize this will end in holywar.
Gate Gate Pāragate Pārasaṃgate Bodhi Svāhā
 
Grey Fox
#8 Posted : 7/8/2020 10:01:08 PM

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We all have our own views on these matters. One day death will come for each of us, and then we all will find out what there is or isnt on the other side.

I envision death to be the entering into of a final and complete state of rest, from which I will never awaken. All the striving and hard work of life, all the challenges and hurts, all that will be over, and the deep slumber of finally giving into the weariness will envelop and overtake everything. There will be no more, except for the eternal peace of deep and complete resting forever. And it gives me solace to know that I will be slumbering like that for all eternity with the ones I have known and loved who have gone there before me. We will rest together forever.

For consciousness will not continue on there. It is a product of this body, which will die and go back to the Earth. We cling to it so, but it is not forever. Your mind and body are one, and together they will die.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
 
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