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The Cactus Analysis Thread Options
 
permatrip
#121 Posted : 12/10/2017 6:03:15 PM

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I have TLC plates from bunk Police and Marquis reagent. I need to get another reagent though since I want test cactus and try growing and breeding Illinois bundleflower for increased alkaloids. Probably best to do 2 reagent test even better 3 reagent tests as outlined in one of the booklets that came with the kit.

I got enough cactus powder I made by removing spines, cutting off strips removing the core. I intend on using my soxhlet and extract with either ethanol or methanol , I got both. Yea I bought 10 pounds I now know I can get much better cactus for the money.

I have chromatography paper from a lab supply company. I was hoping to be able to use it since it cost much less. I might find I can't use it though. I can afford to buy 10-20 tlc plates a month but I know others might not be able to, and that's why I asked about using paper. I will experiment with the paper when I do the tlc plates and see if any thing useful comes from trying paper, spraying with the ninhydrin solution.

I feel pretty confident that I will obtain better stock after reading many threads and the very useful info I found in this thread. I think of screening cactus and growing them as an investment in the future that will benefit more than just me. I feel like I'm involved in something much larger than myself. I got about 20 trichs I started from seed and will start another 20 soon. I know that 10 years from now I will be glad I started this project. Thanks to all of you for the ground work you have done that makes this possible for people like me. I am still learning so any advise is welcomed.

put your hands in my hand and together we will take on all the world
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
An1cca
#122 Posted : 12/10/2017 9:24:03 PM

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permatrip wrote:
I took a sample to work with soon, I used a 5mm tube to get the sample, then froze and I think instead of using distilled water I will use the solvent provided with the kit. Methanol/ammonia solution. It seems to make sense to me.


Preliminary data suggest that taking the sample at the bottom 1/5 of the live stem provides the most accurate quantification of M-content.

Be sure that your samples are identical as to surface area of green flesh. Variations in thickness seem less important than variations in surface area.

Using the ammoniacal methanol will convert M to its free-base; lowering its solubility in the water that is contained in the flesh and that gets mixed up in your sample solution. Also, both M-freebase and its salts are soluble in water, why using methanol at this wet stage? It also has a lower boiling point making it boil away in a pressure cooker (while when using water this hardly plays a role).

permatrip wrote:
Instead of pressure cooking I intend on mashing the sample, sealing the eppindorf vial and in a glass container keep warm in a water bath for a lenght of time perhaps 8hr. Then extract using a filter draw into a syringe to load into a cap tube for TLC/test.


If you have a pressure cooker, I would say use it, be it for the sake of complete extraction and elimination of sliminess.

permatrip wrote:
I suppose I should do a second sample by freezing then pressure cooking the sample.

Thumbs up

permatrip wrote:
Has anyone any experience in testing using paper chromatography as paper is less expensive and was widely used and still is today as far as I read.

If you want to semi-quantify your extracts afterwards with ninhydrin, all lab-procedures use TLC. It has a better resolution and thus leaves a more localized and reproducible spot to analyse.

I'm so glad you're willing to peer-review the document.Love I'm sure it has value and together we can only further improve it. Thanks Permatrip and good luck. Be sure to post any results or questions.
 
permatrip
#123 Posted : 12/11/2017 5:36:13 AM

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Thanks An1cca, I will follow your instructions. I hadn't really thought it out, all you said makes sense. I thought extracting straight into the solvent system might help avoid the slimyness & avoid using the pressure cooker. I got a pc I'll put it to good use.

I just realized I am like the newbs I see all the time trying to grow their first mushrooms,not following tried and true methods that work. This was really useful to remind me not to try to innovate until I can create on my own. Don't know why I thought I could skip water extraction or pcing.

I find the separation kits to be inexpensive an a must have for serious cactus cultivators.

I realize I need to make a crystalline sample and get it tested to use as a reference in order to do anything worth posting about. Until then I'll research, read and live vicariously through you guys.
put your hands in my hand and together we will take on all the world
 
endlessness
#124 Posted : 10/16/2018 2:39:02 PM

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Just totally revamped the first post in this thread with a lot of updates, hopefully it will be more useful and organized now!

I'm also hoping more people will post their extraction results here (or here) so we can have better idea on cact yields and best cuttings.
 
Loveall
#125 Posted : 6/8/2020 4:04:26 PM

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Hi, would this kind of paper be more data that can be added? Haven't seen this paper mentioned here before (sorry if it has been and I missed it).

I think they conclude that a good approach is to get cacti from a local shaman's garden and not worry about much else 🙂 Makes sense, they probably tended for and selected plants for hundreds of years.

Ideally one would go to south america, visit with shaman's, and ask them for cuttings from their plants. I guess people have done that already (can anyone share stories of that?). I would love to get some of those cacti 💚🌵
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
coAsTal
#126 Posted : 6/8/2020 4:26:03 PM

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Looks similar to the Keeper Trout list-- I don't think it's new info but here's the Trout San Pedro piece to look at

https://troutsnotes.com/pdf/EGA_2011_SanPedro.pdf
 
Grey Fox
#127 Posted : 6/8/2020 5:20:20 PM

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I've never been to South America. But all the photos and videos I've seen show that the shamans mostly select big fat Pachanois with very small spines. It is the classic short spined Ecuadorian Pachanoi type.

If you ever get a chance to watch the documentary "Eduardo the Healer" by Douglas Sharon, there is a scene in which the shaman says that the strongest San Pedros come from the northern part of Peru. I'm pretty sure he is referring to the short spined Ecuadorian Pachanoi type.

From my experience it is a very good type. Good potency and a very nice quality to the trip. But Bridgesii is still stronger from what I have found.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
endlessness
#128 Posted : 6/8/2020 5:34:34 PM

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Thanks Loveall! Indeed its good data.. I had added it here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=82015 (linked in the first post here)

Unfortunately in the published studies most dont have pic of cact or description of phenotypes to know if lenght of spine is related to potency.. Nevertheless there is quite some interesting data there to check out, stuff that goes against some common myths.
 
Grey Fox
#129 Posted : 6/8/2020 6:41:53 PM

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Its important to compare apples to apples when looking at yields. The 4.7% yield is from the fabled "Ogun" Pachanoi. But that is just the dried outer green flesh from a cutting from a large mother plant. The cutting sat in the dark in a box for months. There are reasons why that number is so high. Ogunbodede talks about it in his article and there has been extensive discussion surrounding that cactus on the internet forums. And it is of the phenotype that I am referring to.

The cacti have been traded and re-planted all throughout the Andes for many centuries. There are many Trichos growing in locations far from the original place of origin for that type. In the wild, in large numbers, the fat, small spined Pachanois originate predominantly in the area of southern Ecuador and northern Peru. They have been a favorite type for many for a long time.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
Chaska
#130 Posted : 6/11/2020 11:45:04 PM

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im just gonna throw this out there

i had acquired severely stressed and aged PC clones, 5+ meters. a friend wanted to make a pedro brew and bought these and then asked for some help (it was a mistake on his part going for a "good deal", bridge was the initial suggestion)

i cooked it as well as i cook anything else, over a meter was required to begin to satisfy the pharmacological response desired. however it was still consderably mild for the friend that drank it and only because of the bodyload/discomfort did he not continue to drink his fill

i call bunk on stress being that much of a potentiator as well as site the instance where stressed plants lost potency. the correlation is vapor to me.



grow plants, make tea, love life
 
coAsTal
#131 Posted : 6/12/2020 12:18:05 AM

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With all respect Chaska, and forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but most PC-type (Predominant Cultivar) pachs are known to be so weak that in some instances they could be considered effectively inactive.
I have heard of exceptions with very old, very thick segments. You could well get almost nothing from meters-worth of PC green flesh, as it's often measured so low in active alks that it still would do little to nothing compared to much shorter segments of non-PC pachs, Bridges, Scops, or many Peruvianus (and others).

Using any PC pach as your basis for "calling bunk" on the stressing effect of alk concentration would not be a great example-- because you're starting off with almost nothing in the first place.

There is quite a large number of people that report strength increases from "darking", or storing away from light for extended periods prior to brewing-- but there needs to be more testing in a formal environment (freshly-cut and after storage for "x" time) to honestly settle the question.

Cool

 
Grey Fox
#132 Posted : 6/12/2020 6:21:27 AM

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Chaska what do you think is the most potent type of Tricho?

For me it has consistently been Bridgesii, regardless of the clone. Although I must admit that one of my most visually stimulating cactus trips was from a tea that was predominantly monstrose Pachanoi. I also find Scopulicola to be quite potent and visual. But Bridgesii has consistently been the strongest for me. What about you?
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
PedroSanchez
#133 Posted : 6/28/2020 10:46:24 PM

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great info, thanks! <3

about a month ago i bought a san pedro, bolivian torch and a peyote to grow. at the moment they are just family, but one day i will no doubt cultivate my san pedro and my bolivian torch. this info is great to have for when it comes to that.

thanks <3
 
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