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beginner's question in dmt/maoi Options
 
Keren
#1 Posted : 5/20/2020 9:41:42 PM

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Hi everybody,

I recently acquired 250mg of 5-MeO-DMT freebase. This is not much and I don't know when I will be able to get more. The source is sure. I would like to be able to optimize this 250g as much as possible. Also I have some questions about MAOI.

I'm going to consume the dmt with a Mighty.
Before that, I would like to use a MAOI and I am a bit confused about all the possibilities that are available to me with the Syrian Rue because there are :
- Whole seeds
- powdered seeds
- Harmine HCL
- Harmine Base
(I'm not talking about the harmaline that I don't want to use.)

And also the possibility to consume the Rue in :
- vaporizing
- sublingual
- drink
I read a lot of things on the forum but it makes me more confused than anything else... could you advise me with dosages ?

I also plan to consume the dmt during a mushroom trip, I saw that the synergy was excellent... is it necessary to lower the usual dose (4.5g of dried cubes for me) ?

Thank you in advance for your answers! And sorry if the answers are already in the forum but as I speak French it's not always easy to find things in English, it takes ages... and sometimes even with a translator I do not understand everything...
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Brennendes Wasser
#2 Posted : 5/21/2020 12:01:19 AM

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Yo some questions to understand you better:

You say you have 5-MeO-DMT, but later on and in the title you talk about DMT - so not 5-MeO. Now what of these 2 is the actual stuff that you aquired ;D

IF it indeed is 5-MeO, then you wont need MAOI for this, it works very well without (never done it though).

Then you say you want to either use seeds as a MAOI source or Harmine, but you dont want to use Harmaline.

As seeds contain both Harmine AND Harmaline, you would ingest both nevertheless, when consuming seeds. So are you really sure you dont want to put your fingers on any Harmaline?
Also is there a special reason for this? Both are quite similar and I can clearly say there is nothing to state against Harmaline Wink

For consumption:

- whole seeds
Pro: Just count your seeds and eat them = easy
Con: high possibility of getting illness in your stomach / nausea,
the actual content of alkaloids cant be known and so its not an exact measurement like you would get when using an extract. Not that bad, as the potency will not vary that much, so Nausea is more of a concern.

powdered seeds: Same as whole seeds. If you dont plan on doing an extract, then everything from whole seeds applies.

Harmine HCl: This is the salt form of Harmine, meaning the molecule itself is positively charged and comes in combination with a chloride-ion. These strong molecular forces drastically increase the vaporization temperature, so you will not be able to vaporize/smoke it anymore. Besides from this, there is no different activity to plain Harmine when eaten or prepared in a tea.

Harmine Base: Here the molecule is not affected by ionic forces and the vaporization temp is much lower, still much higher than DMT (and also 5-MeO-DMT). Nevertheless you can vaporize it, therefore Harmine (and Harmaline) Base are used to prepare Changa.

Now regarding the Mighty Vaporizer:

You dont be able to vaporize Harmine with the Mighty - its max setting is 210 °C and this is too low for Harmine. If you have 5-MeO-DMT instead of DMT then you maaaay also get problems, as I think MeO will vaporize somewhere in the range of 200 °C - 250 °C. But then you would have to check it out. Regarding (regular) DMT this wont be a problem, the optimal Temperature for your Mighty is ~ 170 °C.

What I would do:

If you really dont want to ingest Harmaline then you would need to extract the Harmalas (Harmaline + Harmine mixture) from the Syrian Rue seeds and then separate both. Eating whole seeds would be forbidden, as they contain Harmaline, too.
But I think this would not make sense, the easiest way would be just grinding some seeds and putting them in a hot tea for 20 minutes, then drink it - this way you get Harmaline + Harmine again.
But the most convenient would be to extract the Harmalas and then weigh 200 mg of Freebase Harmine, put it in a tea or eat it without anything else.
Then wait ~ 40 mins and then start vaping.

200 mg of Freebase Harmalas are regarded to be the maximum needed amount to get a full inhibition of enzymes = enhancement of Alkaloids (not only DMT, but also Mushrooms in your case). Everything more than 200 mg will just increase the chance for nausea, which is not prominent at 200 mg, but will strongly develop towards 300 mg. 400 mg is a 100 % safe stomach exorcism. Twisted Evil

Eating them is also very convenient as you dont have to smoke them anymore = more chilled vaping of DMT, also they will last 2 h easily and you just needed that 1 dosage for your whole session.

Well I could have said this shorter, but I hope this may clarify some stuff. Thumbs up
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
gogamoga
#3 Posted : 5/21/2020 2:48:34 AM

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Do not take 5-MeO-DMT with MAOI. Very dangerous combination.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=153445#post153445
https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55407
https://erowid.org/exper...T_Health_Problems.shtml
Gate Gate Pāragate Pārasaṃgate Bodhi Svāhā
 
Keren
#4 Posted : 5/21/2020 12:53:34 PM

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thank you very much Brennendes Wasser for all the explanations given, it helps me a lot! and thank you Gogamoga for the warning !
yes I wasn't clear on everything so already I only have 5-MeO-DMT and no DMT... I wrote later to simplify but it's only freebase 5-MeO-DMT.

About harmaline, I read something on this forum that it's a little bit sedative, so I'm less interested in it than harmine. But I'm not absolutely against it either.

You say I don't need MAOI and Gogamoga also warns me against combining the two. And indeed I have read the Gogamoga links but they mostly talk about MAOI drunk or ingested which can actually work for some people, as I saw on the forum and also advice received on FB, but I won't take the risk.
On the other hand, I keep your information on oral consumption of Rue to consume mushrooms - without spraying 5-MeO-DMT.

Now what about a vaporized MAOI ?

I thank you again for the explanations on all the options and I think the best would be the harmine base (as I am also interested in changa).

About the Mighty, I completely messed up: I didn't pay attention to the fact that I have 5-MeO-DMT and not just DMT, thank goodness you're here and thank goodness I didn't buy the Mighty yet!
So I looked up 5-MeO-DMT and I found this:
- Meth pipe.
- Eclipse Vape pipes.
- Healthstone bong with Healthstone Vapor Stone
- Yocan Evolve Plus

To clarify in the meth pipe, one can heat the 5-MeO-DMT as hard as possible or just make clear smoke so leave the flame at a distance?
Would there be a preference for other models? The Yocan seems to me very practical but I haven't read only good reviews on it... an advice ?
 
Brennendes Wasser
#5 Posted : 5/21/2020 2:40:24 PM

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If you are going to vaporize your 5-MeO-DMT then MAOI are definetly totally not needed, so even if you would consider mixing both, if would not really enhance the experience as from what I read the duration of 5-MeO without any MAOI is regarded to be already long enough for a worthy experience.

Meth Pipe: I read that they are not totally effective devices, you would loose a little bit of material, but I actually dont know why. Maybe it does not vaporize completely and will stick to the walls? Dont know ...

Quote:
To clarify in the meth pipe, one can heat the 5-MeO-DMT as hard as possible or just make clear smoke so leave the flame at a distance?


So you want to know if you should EITHER heat it hardcore to make sure everything vaporizes OR if you should be more gentle to only produce smooth vapor, but maybe with a risk of not vaporizing everything? Sadly no idea, but I think a pipe like this is not expensive so you could just buy 1 and test a little bit ...

But this will definetly work, just use it with a torch lighter and heat the complete bottom evenly and you will get a good hit. Load first 5 mg to see if it works, you have 250 mg, which is a huge amount. As I know 20 mg of MeO is regarded a large dose, so you really dont have to worry about spending a few mg in the beginning for testing.

Healthstone with a bong: Will definetly work. Just place it on top of the stone, come closer with a flame to melt it in. Then you can start vaping, but again, it is no guaranteed 100 % effectivity, some material may *get lost* in the stone.

At least from my tests it was like this:

Loading 20 mg of DMT (not 5-MeO) and then started vaping and when I had the flame at the best distance I still was not able to get all the 20 mg in one draw. Nevertheless it works and the material is not lost, you can always recover it by soaking the stone in Alcohol / Isopropanol / Acetone.

Yocan Evolve Plus:

I bought it ages ago, but sadly the vapor was quite harsh ... I gave it away to a friend for free ... Thumbs down

Alternatively you could use this thing, there is a .GIF showing a handheld glass thing - not the thing on the wood plate below. It works well for DMT and should work exactly like this for 5-MeO. Maybe its more effective than a meth pipe, but it also would cost 2x I guess.

Lastly I would not advise to create Changa with 5-MeO, as Changa is always very wasteful, you always burn a lot or leave a lot back on the leaves that cant vaporize, Changa is just *easy to handle*, but vaporizing Freebase alkaloids in any way is more economic in practically all cases. Thumbs up
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
null24
#6 Posted : 5/21/2020 4:08:47 PM

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Quote:
I only have 5-MeO-DMT and no DMT... I wrote later to simplify but it's only freebase 5-MeO-DMT.

You do know what you're getting into right? There is nothing simple about 5meo. You might want to make sure you know the effects of what you have.

I actually did 5meo thinking it was DMT, and look what happened, now I'm here. Be careful.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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Keren
#7 Posted : 5/21/2020 9:52:14 PM

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@null24 : yes i know nearly where i'm going into.. didn't tried it yet but i'll be careful thanks !
i'm already familiar with ayahuasca and big doses of cubensis, peyotl.. so i'll discover more with this new(for me) medicine.

@Brennendes Wasser
thank you again very much for all your precious information!
especially your tip on changa, won't wast my 5-meo with it thanks!

"this thing" is quit interesting but but I don't know if I'm going to find all the parts to buy in the same shop to avoid costs... it also goes for the normal dmt and in case I find some it'll be handy.
it would be more pratictal than the Healthstone with a bong..

About the Yocan Evolve Plus you said that the smoke is harsh but i read somewhere that if you inhale gently it make it smoother.. did you tried that ? and was it effective for a breakthrough ?

 
bismillah
#8 Posted : 5/22/2020 4:38:58 AM

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My fav way to use rue is to boil 3g with lemon juice for half an hour, then filter and reduce. Like Buckley's: tastes awful, but it works.
When I ate the seeds crushed I never got any effect except for a fever. And I would eat as much as 5.5 grams to try getting an effect! A 5.5g tea would absolutely destroy me.

Funny story—I used to think my bark was weak when I'd have a weak experience on a 25g(!!!) mimosa tea and crushed rue. Looking back I shudder at the thought of what could have been if I'd used the rue properly that night.

All that said, donnnn't use an MAOI with 5-MeO. It's very dangerous, as others have pointed out.


I also vape with a Yocan. It's really easy to burn the spice, but it beats fussing with those bloody torch lighters and inhaling fumes any day of the week. With good technique it's a godsend compared to a pipe.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Keren
#9 Posted : 5/22/2020 10:27:20 AM

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thanks for the rue receipe bismillah, i'll use it while eating mushrooms..
how many minutes after rue do you ingest mimosa ? cause i saw some wait for 8 minutes while other wait for 30 minutes..

about the Yocan, could you explain the technique and how not to burn the spice ?
did you used it with 5-MeO-DMT ?


 
Brennendes Wasser
#10 Posted : 5/22/2020 10:56:14 AM

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Quote:
About the Yocan Evolve Plus you said that the smoke is harsh but i read somewhere that if you inhale gently it make it smoother.. did you tried that ? and was it effective for a breakthrough ?


Yes sadly I could not get smooth vapor with it. Placed my material in it and even 10 mg were so harsh I could not inhale these 10 mg. This means I did not get any effect at all, it was just not usable ://

Others tell much better stories, but I at least for myself could not get this working at all ...

Quote:
"this thing" is quit interesting but but I don't know if I'm going to find all the parts to buy in the same shop to avoid costs... it also goes for the normal dmt and in case I find some it'll be handy.
it would be more pratictal than the Healthstone with a bong..


You will only need 2 websites. 1 is from Germany, which should be easy in France and the other one is from a Chinese ebay seller.

Quote:
i'll use it while eating mushrooms..
how many minutes after rue do you ingest mimosa ? cause i saw some wait for 8 minutes while other wait for 30 minutes..


Yes there are indeed different stories ... and both seem to work.
What I can say:
Eating the MAOI first and waiting ~ 40 minutes will make them definetly active when you then eat any other compound.
But on the other hand in Ayahuasca you eat both at the same time and this also definetly works.
As MAOI last for ~ 2 h in my opinion waiting 40 minutes in the beginning does not really cut too much off from your total time, so I would just wait 40 minutes.

But this is more regarding a vaping session. Because if you vape something, it will be absorbed instantly. When you eat MAOI it will take at least 40 minutes for them to be active in your body. So when you would VAPE then you definetly need to wait, otherwise the MAOI are still stuck in your stomach, while the DMT already absorbs in your lungs.

But as you talk about EATING your actives, like Mushrooms, then again it may be possible to just eat both together, as eating your actives will also cause them to take *the longer way* and so they are not likely to be *faster* than the MAOI. Of course this cant be sure, so if you would eat DMT + MAOI at the same time, then maybe some DMT is absorbed faster and destroyed before the MAOI can kick in, but again, when using Ayahuasca it still works. So its more of a personal thing when eating both, but as I told you definetly need to wait 40 mins, when you eat MAOI, but VAPE other stuff.
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
Keren
#11 Posted : 5/22/2020 11:38:49 AM

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@Brennendes Wasser thank you for the additional information on MAOI
before i used to drink or rue 30 to 45 minutes before mushrooms or acacia
but it didn't work well with acacia.. mais the acrb was not a good stuff..
and sorry that the Yocan didn't work for you.. let's wait the answer of bismillah as he seems to know the technique for it..
ohterwise i'll check "the thing" but i can find Yocan in my country for around 25 euros so it'll be the cheapest option and the more practical... if i know the technique ^^.

 
downwardsfromzero
#12 Posted : 5/22/2020 5:56:37 PM

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A couple more things to absolutely emphasise if you are planning on using 5-MeO-DMT:

You need a scale capable of ACCURATELY and PRECISELY weighing amounts as small as 5 mg;

It is highly advised to have an experienced and sympathetic trip sitter with this one.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Keren
#13 Posted : 5/22/2020 6:02:11 PM

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@downwardsfromzero
yes i have a very precise scale that can weight by mg
and i'll be careful, start with low dose

the trip-sitter will be my best friend so that's okay too

thanks for you concern !
 
Keren
#14 Posted : 5/23/2020 5:16:50 PM

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bismillah wrote:

I also vape with a Yocan. It's really easy to burn the spice, but it beats fussing with those bloody torch lighters and inhaling fumes any day of the week. With good technique it's a godsend compared to a pipe.


could you tell me how not to burn the 5-meo-dmt and what is the technique to use the Yocan ?
is a breakthrough easy with a Yocan ?
thanks for your help !
 
bismillah
#15 Posted : 5/24/2020 4:48:29 PM

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Keren wrote:
bismillah wrote:

I also vape with a Yocan. It's really easy to burn the spice, but it beats fussing with those bloody torch lighters and inhaling fumes any day of the week. With good technique it's a godsend compared to a pipe.


could you tell me how not to burn the 5-meo-dmt and what is the technique to use the Yocan ?
is a breakthrough easy with a Yocan ?
thanks for your help !



I think people who complain about burnt spice are holding down the button. What you gotta do is pull very slowly and pulse the button quickly. When you get oxygen hunger (it's like breathing through a straw) you can suck some air in through your nose and keep the toke going. Voila: one massive breakthrough toke.

Rue tea takes about a full hour to reach full effect. When I use it with mimosa tea I leave 30 min in between the brews, since the mimosa takes about 30 minutes to kick in itself.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
null24
#16 Posted : 5/24/2020 6:07:54 PM

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bismillah wrote:
Keren wrote:
bismillah wrote:

I also vape with a Yocan. It's really easy to burn the spice, but it beats fussing with those bloody torch lighters and inhaling fumes any day of the week. With good technique it's a godsend compared to a pipe.


could you tell me how not to burn the 5-meo-dmt and what is the technique to use the Yocan ?
is a breakthrough easy with a Yocan ?
thanks for your help !



I think people who complain about burnt spice are holding down the button. What you gotta do is pull very slowly and pulse the button quickly. When you get oxygen hunger (it's like breathing through a straw) you can suck some air in through your nose and keep the toke going. Voila: one massive breakthrough toke.

.

You could be right, but i don't think I'd use my yocan for spice. I got it awhile back to explore thc concentrates, and i experimented quite a bit with the button to get a good hit, but found it to be too harsh. I also began to experience a really bad wet cough, and stopped messing around with concentrates at all.

I mean go for it if you have enough supply to possibly lose, and if you do report back on how it works for you. It would be a very convenient thing if so.

Quote:
: yes i know nearly where i'm going into.. didn't tried it yet but i'll be careful thanks !
i'm already familiar with ayahuasca and big doses of cubensis, peyotl.. so i'll discover more with this new(for me) medicine.


Big grin you sure will!Thumbs up
Quote:

the trip-sitter will be my best friend so that's okay too

There are some things your friend needs to be aware of and prepared for with this that aren't necessarily the case with 'other' psychedelics.
They need to be aware that you may do some exceptionally weird stuff- vocalizations and body movements that can make it appear as if you are in distress. Unless you are in eminent danger of hitting your head or injuring yourself however, he should be able to observe and not interfere except to prevent injury. In a super rare case, that could be physically challenging for them. Just be aware.
Also, they need to be able to quickly recognize it you are not breathing, and be knowledgeable and able to perform cpr. They also need to know how to place you in a recovery position if necessary.

Seriously, 5meo is no joke. I'm not trying to scare you at all, if done well, it WILL be the most powerfully positive transformation tool you will come across, but it presents with many dangers.

You also may want to have something in place to help you make sense and eventually integrate what is going to happen. What that looks like is up to you, whether it be spiritual or religious or transpersonal psychology, but there is very little in our culture that will inherently help you pull meaning from the void and work it into your life. We see people losing it with this stuff all the time, next thing you know they are posting YouTube videos about being God or deifying amphibians, but with care it can help you become more humble, loving and effective.


Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
MojoCorps Creative Services Bureau
 
Keren
#17 Posted : 5/25/2020 7:05:48 PM

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bismillah wrote:

I think people who complain about burnt spice are holding down the button. What you gotta do is pull very slowly and pulse the button quickly. When you get oxygen hunger (it's like breathing through a straw) you can suck some air in through your nose and keep the toke going. Voila: one massive breakthrough toke.

Rue tea takes about a full hour to reach full effect. When I use it with mimosa tea I leave 30 min in between the brews, since the mimosa takes about 30 minutes to kick in itself.


Okay for the Rue 30 minutes.. good to know that.. me i'll take it whith acacia or mushrooms..
About the Yocan just to be sure : so you pulse the button quickly but you keep pulsing the button all the time or you do it only one time and it's warm enoug ? sorry just to be sure..
So with this method it's not too harsch as others says.. nice !

 
Keren
#18 Posted : 5/25/2020 7:15:35 PM

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null24 wrote:

Also, they need to be able to quickly recognize it you are not breathing, and be knowledgeable and able to perform cpr. They also need to know how to place you in a recovery position if necessary.

Seriously, 5meo is no joke. I'm not trying to scare you at all, if done well, it WILL be the most powerfully positive transformation tool you will come across, but it presents with many dangers.

You also may want to have something in place to help you make sense and eventually integrate what is going to happen. What that looks like is up to you, whether it be spiritual or religious or transpersonal psychology, but there is very little in our culture that will inherently help you pull meaning from the void and work it into your life. We see people losing it with this stuff all the time, next thing you know they are posting YouTube videos about being God or deifying amphibians, but with care it can help you become more humble, loving and effective.


Well.. i'm a bit scared now.. perform cpr ? wouah my friend doesn't knwow that..
maybe we'll watch a tutorial on cpr before 5-meo..
there are seriously problems like this with 5-meo ? i didn't know..

About the Yocan i'm confused, some says it works well others says the opposite..
it's looks the more practical tool so.. and not that expensive.. 30$ where i live.. that's less than an eclipse or a healthstone..
But really thanks for the advices !

To integrate.. be clear about my intentions.. maybe an ayahuasca session the day before ? any advice

 
bismillah
#19 Posted : 5/25/2020 7:54:20 PM

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Pulse till you feel the vapor getting too hot. You gotta get a feel for it really.


CPR? I don't know if this is necessary. That story of a lady taking 550 tabs' worth of lsd (alone!) and turning out fine comes to mind. But definitely look up the recovery position before you embark.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Exitwound
#20 Posted : 5/26/2020 12:32:18 AM

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bismillah wrote:
Pulse till you feel the vapor getting too hot. You gotta get a feel for it really.


CPR? I don't know if this is necessary. That story of a lady taking 550 tabs' worth of lsd (alone!) and turning out fine comes to mind. But definitely look up the recovery position before you embark.


Please don't compare apples to oranges. This kind of attitude can be harmful and is irresponsible imho.
Poster asks about 5meo-dmt substance with known health risks if handled incorrectly, you bring in anecdote about some lady not requiring medical assistance after LSD overdose.

Regarind yocan - OPs question is about 5meo vaporization, I get a feeling that you are responding with information regarding NN vaporization further confusing already confused OP who was planning to use MAOI with 5meo.

@OP What is even the reason wanting to use MAOIs with 5meo?
 
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