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BE WARNED: It seems for me I became immune to DMT. The Dreaded Lockout has taken me Options
 
coAsTal
#61 Posted : 5/6/2020 9:00:07 PM

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Matoskah wrote:
For the sake of being thorough have you tried it in different forms? Vape, aya, pharma etc.?

Not sure if this might be helpful to you but my general attitude in life is:
What I can do with, I can do without. Hence my long seasonal "breaks" but I don't think of them as breaks, there's no time set in stone and it makes it all the better for me. I hate planning.

Hope your doing well otherwise, read about your food and you do sound like a healthy eaterThumbs up


Yes, I did try the last of the caapi I had with some chaliponga a little over a month ago-- no real effect.

I'm resigned to the wait-- as mentioned above, it's not going anywhere, and being as I feel 100% otherwise, my early fears of serious damage have remained gratefully unrealized-- I'm old enough to look at months as weeks, hehe-- time passes faster in your forties Pleased

It'll all work out as it should-- and I will update this thread when it's warranted to document any changes.

I thank you all once again for your kindness and questions-- if there's nothing else to be happy about, I hope this thread works towards harm reduction in future travelers. It is a gift I certainly didn't seek out, but I give it freely to all that could someday steer clear of my circumstances.


 

Have doubts about your samples? Get trusted results by having your samples tested.
 
coAsTal
#62 Posted : 5/13/2020 8:15:09 PM

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Gave my GVG another try this afternoon-- there's no question the lockout is lessening now. While the visual aspect is still at most maybe 15% what it normally would be, it's subtle but genuinely noticeable now, with a body feel and lovely emotional wave that has become quite a bit more prominent-- I am very happy to say.
At this rate, I'd guess by mid summer I could be fully receptive to the spice again.
I'm happy to wait.

Thumbs up
 
OliverJ
#63 Posted : 5/13/2020 8:21:02 PM

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coAsTal wrote:
Gave my GVG another try this afternoon-- there's no question the lockout is lessening now. While the visual aspect is still at most maybe 15% what it normally would be, it's subtle but genuinely noticeable now, with a body feel and lovely emotional wave that has become quite a bit more prominent-- I am very happy to say.
At this rate, I'd guess by mid summer I could be fully receptive to the spice again.
I'm happy to wait.

Thumbs up


Awesome news mate!
 
Tony6Strings
#64 Posted : 5/13/2020 9:40:57 PM

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Very good to hear Coastal!!!
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Jees
#65 Posted : 5/14/2020 12:07:32 PM

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Good evolution Thumbs up
coAstal, in this period of lock out, how were your regular night dreams, were they affected in some way? Just curious to know if there is a relationship.
 
coAsTal
#66 Posted : 5/14/2020 5:10:19 PM

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Thanks for all the kind encouragement-- it's appreciated very much.

I've not experienced any kind of noticeable changes, cognitively, emotionally, or physically through this whole process.

I'm not a frequent dream-retainer-- I've never been one to remember dreams very often. So that, too, remains the same.

In my further research of others that this has happened to, I am becoming less inclined to think that the serotonin syndrome incident was the actual catalyst to the lockout though-- seeing as nobody else that has written of going through this had any similar experience.

I recall that I had experienced some late extractions (like the 5th or so) from some bark that was all oil earlier in that time frame that didn't work at all-- I'd used heat to pull everything out and it was just like oil.

I've done that many times for tail-end extractions.
I remembered thinking at the time though that it was not quite right-- and even worried after trying it that there could have been naptha still trapped in the clear yellow oils, despite letting it sit for a couple weeks with plenty of air exposure and sitting it on a warm coffee cup heater to evap everything like that out.
After trying it twice I trashed it, thinking it was non-active. It was the first time I had that strange result with the "goo" extract-- but because of the Serotonin crisis, I'd forgotten about that having happened prior to the incident---

Makes me wonder if I maybe damaged my lungs/receptors with whatever was in that inactive oil... though I have noticed no respiratory issues over the last several months.

Could be? I don't know. I post the information to further flesh out the circumstances for those looking to learn from this.

Suffice it to say I will be sticking to crystal forevermore.
 
coAsTal
#67 Posted : 5/20/2020 7:38:52 PM

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Oh, guys-- it was wonderful....

Big grin
 
OliverJ
#68 Posted : 5/20/2020 8:35:14 PM

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Hahaha yes Love Big grin
 
Metta-Morpheus
#69 Posted : 5/21/2020 10:28:44 AM

Fly with the sea birds and sh!t

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coAsTal wrote:
Oh, guys-- it was wonderful....

Big grin


Yay!! Welcome back!
“You think that’s air you’re breathing?” -Morpheus
“Whoa fellas, I’m feeling kinda bowling ball-ish.” -Leopold Butters Stoch
It’s got what plants crave. -Brawndo

Magic is here for us all to feel. Naming it isn’t what makes it real.
Running around for us all to know, noticing isn’t what makes it so... -Avett Brothers
 
potnoble
#70 Posted : 5/21/2020 1:43:34 PM

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Hello coastal

I am very happy to hear that you can enjoy these miracles again.

After the story you told i was worried that you damaged sth.
in your system. So i can only imagine how you must have felt.

I don´t do psychedelics too often but your experience was a reminder for me
to be careful and more respectful.

Thank you for sharing and have a gud one Thumbs up
 
coAsTal
#71 Posted : 5/21/2020 2:33:26 PM

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Thank you all for following me on this long road-- the experience is still very different from the "classic" DMT effect, but it was very strong-- I used passionflower and mugwort as my herbal base, and it was spectacular.
At first I thought it was going to be much like prior attempts, but very slowly it manifested-- almost like when you're cranking over a car that won't quite start until you've tried it a few times. Then incredible 3D images gradually began "echoing" out from the trees and surroundings, becoming holographic. The room became fully lit with a golden glow somehow-- like the there was sunlight on everything... gorgeous and loving. Intimate. Dreamy. So fulfilling. Indescribable...

Audio was slightly strange though-- my music sounded a little warped/changed from what I normally experience, which was notable. Eventually it bloomed into a blissful texture that was very sensual.

I'll wait at least another week before trying again, as I don't want to over-do it.

Very happy/relieved.
 
Tony6Strings
#72 Posted : 5/21/2020 5:34:04 PM

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Awesome, glad to hear it!!

I've had experiences where, right before I break through, the whole room lights up like a high wattage bulb!!!
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
coAsTal
#73 Posted : 5/22/2020 3:56:37 PM

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Man, it was surreal-- just amazing-- I felt like I was ascending to heaven...


 
Ahubaba
#74 Posted : 5/25/2020 10:47:41 AM

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Thanks for sharing your experience Coastal.

I think it is much valuable to share difficult or undesirable experiences like you did since we may catch hints of the neurophysiological principles that govern the trip. In your case, it seems like it took you around 3 weeks to experience noticable recovery in subjective effects and around 5 weeks for a near complete recovery. Since you described a state of anxiety characterized by confusion and awareness of heart palpitations (did your body temperature rise as well or did you experienced periods of unconsciousness?) I would say it is likely that DMT and 5-HTP in combination with harmalas caused an overstimulation of serotonin receptors as you suspected. An the period of 'lockout' here might be a compensatory downregulation of serotonin receptors after overstimulation. The timeframe in which you experienced lessened subjective effects fits the trajectory of 5-HT2a receptor downregulation following heavy MDMA use where serotonin floods the synaptic space causes the said downregulation. The timeline of recovery also matches with the restoration of receptor numbers to the baseline. Overstimulation of 5-HT2 receptors, especially the 5-HT2C subtype, are known to contribute to states of anxiety. This is frequently reported in patients at the beginning of their SSRI treatment schedules
and also in users of various serotonergic drugs. Downregulation of 5-HT2A may also contribute to the depressive state following a heavy dose of a serotonergic drug, although your focus was mainly placed on the lessened psychoactivity and my assumption of mood depression might not hold true in your case.

Either way I am very happy for you since you seem to have recovered the ability to go 'there' again. I suffered from something very similar after a completely blank peyote (?) experience that gave me TMJ and tinnitus, and crippled my trust in psychedelics for 3 years. In that time I also experienced a similar reduction in CEV immersion and crispness while my mental edge was pretty well preserved. I noticed a near complete recovery in my latest cactus experience but the ending of the trip was very rough physically just as you said, but the more I read the more I begin to think that it just might be cactus or even mescaline itself. I noticed I have been comparing how my experiences are now to how they were back then and I can't help but notice this distrustful approach is likely the biggest culprit behind my inability to get immerse in the moment. I remember that these experiences waere never the same, always novel and mind blowing, which attracted me to them in the first place. My advice is that you try not to generate prejudice and attachment to the past in the first place by not thinking apprehensively. If you are already past this by now, I am sure that the rest will be smooth sailing as long as you don't mix too many things Wink

Take care and all the best!
The fool who picked this pen will always be wiser than the fool who dropped it.
-Excrept from Chasing Shadows
 
coAsTal
#75 Posted : 5/25/2020 7:47:33 PM

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Ahubaba, thank you so much for your excellent post-- much good info in there and food for thought.
 
VibeSurfer
#76 Posted : 5/25/2020 8:01:17 PM

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I'm glad you found your way back to the spice somehow Big grin . There really is just nothing like a relationship with DMT
“A game for those who seek to find a way to leave their world behind. You roll the dice to move your token, doubles gets another turn. The first player to reach the end wins. Adventurers beware: Do not begin unless you intend to finish. The exciting consequences of the game will vanish only when a player has reached Jumanji and called out its name.”
 
Woolmer
#77 Posted : 5/25/2020 9:39:59 PM

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Ahubaba wrote:
I suffered from something very similar after a completely blank peyote (?) experience that gave me TMJ and tinnitus, and crippled my trust in psychedelics for 3 years. In that time I also experienced a similar reduction in CEV immersion and crispness while my mental edge was pretty well preserved. I noticed a near complete recovery in my latest cactus experience but the ending of the trip was very rough physically just as you said, but the more I read the more I begin to think that it just might be cactus or even mescaline itself. I noticed I have been comparing how my experiences are now to how they were back then and I can't help but notice this distrustful approach is likely the biggest culprit behind my inability to get immerse in the moment. I remember that these experiences waere never the same, always novel and mind blowing, which attracted me to them in the first place. My advice is that you try not to generate prejudice and attachment to the past in the first place by not thinking apprehensively.


Lots of valuable information in this thread and I am glad that you are feeling better coastal!

Ahubaba, if you don't mind, could you elaborate a bit more on this experience you had with Peyote? I have felt before that I had done some kind of mental damage after a very intense pachanoi experience and suffered terrible anxiety for a few weeks until I came to the conclusion that my thoughts were perpetrating this anxiety and eventually it faded away.

Could mescaline alone have caused overstimulation of these receptors? Some cacti are known to contain some light maoi's, could these have played a role? Or was it really just a sort of prejudice which I decided must be true as you seem to speak of in that last sentence?

Woolmer
 
Ahubaba
#78 Posted : 5/27/2020 6:55:55 PM

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Hi Woolmer,

I personally think that mescaline is a bit of a dirtier substance in terms of its mechanism of action since it is also a strong adrenergic agonist at alpha 1 receptors. This brings in a whole lot of complications from vasodilation to hypertension in the periphery, merely reflecting on which can trigger anxiety or panic attacks. Moreover, in the brain alpha 1 receptors modulate the release of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and glutamate, which may explain how you experienced strong anxiety due to a sudden increase in cortical excitability. I can't explain with confidence how this state of anxiety lasted over a few weeks since I have not previously researched the after effects of adrenergic stimulants, though since I am developing a deeper interest in mescaline I will hopefully be able to come up with an explanation in the future. I believe my experience was something completely different to a mescaline trip, or it was so heavily altered by the rest of the alkaloids in the lophophora, it became unrecognizable to me.

In this lophophora experience 3 dried buttons that were 5 cms when fresh, one 7 cm button and small chunks (total of four dry buttons that were 3-4 cms when fresh) of caespitose were consumed as a raw blended mixture. This was not boiled. This experience didn't induce any classic mescaline effects but instead created a drastic pitch shift where every sound was toned down to lower frequencies. *At some point during the come up I chewed some harsh gum to relieve tense jaw and had an uncomfortable crunch around my left jaw joint. This will be relevant later on. As I got more affected a feeling of vacuum settled in around the left hemisphere of my head, concentrating especially around the ear. Blood pressure was very high and I could feel a quite strong beat pushing against my index finger when I placed it on the carotid arteries in my neck. Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to properly measure my blood pressure. At some point I felt sleepy, laid down and had very convincing dreams of being a gypsy girl of 3 sisters. This fragment of the experience didn't feel profound at all. It just felt like the reality. Also I never really saw classical patterning, felt euphoria or my thoughts manifested themselves. No psychedelia whatsoever. These make me think that what I ate was not L. williamsii, and if there was any in the mixture it must have been an overwhelming minority. After I woke up I was feeling quite disoriented and buzzy in the head. I had a bit of a vague grain in my vision and I had this extremely unpleasant feeling of vacuum in my left ear. There was this soft windblow that I could hear flowing into my left earhole, as if air was constantly beign sucked into my head and it was very annoying, though this dissapeared with the end of the experience. However what I am going to describe now stuck with me for YEARS: I felt like I was seriously deafened in my left ear and had a 2-tone tinnitus, one incredibly high frequency and a pure tone at 2000 hZ. They had both somatic components, meaning that I could feel the shrill sound as some distant mental pain and the mid frequency as a sensation of pressure in my left side. Also I couldn't feel the vibrations in my eardrums, and didn't even notice that it adds so much to hearing experience before I lost that ability that night. It was weird to me that no test indicated actual hearing loss, though I noticed a trend of 10-decibel loss up to 1000 hZ in my left ear indeed. The assembly line called medicine assesses your health in certain situations so that as long as you are well enough to undertake your tasks you are "fine". These tests for subjective hearing threshold usually consider that you have acute hearing until you are unable to hear 15 deciebels at a given frequency, which is ridiculous. A very long story short, I had to spend a year to self-dianose myself with TMJ after ruling out tumors, any bloody ear condition/disease and a host of systemic diseases. The issue, is I got TMJ because of the tense jaw I experienced, which is ultimately a result of peyote consumption. Also to this day I am still not sure if the auditory after effects are because of TMJ or the cactus. I read the literature regarding TMJ and very limited and precious experience reports of peyote and I am convinced that both are capable of inducing these symptoms. This is the conundrum that put me in odds with psychedelics, since I had a perceivable problem and no clear reason behind it. I had a couple of acid and one mushroom experience after that trip. In those I would only see fleeting CEVs that were partial, as if the machinery producing them was not powering up enough to put up a full show. Although I must say that must be my lack of surrendering myself to pretty much any mind alteration afterwards, which might actually be looking at the same thing from different perspectives now that I think about it. In my last mescaline experience CEV intensity was quite nice, but I must note that I made significant progress with the TMJ treatment meanwhile and tinnitus subsided drastically.

I should thank to Coastal again since I am littering his thread with long posts which sometimes come out as a bit off-topic. After reading this thread I decided to put together all the available information on the practices and easily obtainable supplements to combat the bodyload and notorious mental edge inherent to some cactus experiences. It is really inspiring to me when people care to share difficult experiences with relevant details, since these reports provide us with data we can use to have a better grip on the physiology of the experiences which is one of the biggest strengths of this forum.
The fool who picked this pen will always be wiser than the fool who dropped it.
-Excrept from Chasing Shadows
 
dragonrider
#79 Posted : 5/27/2020 7:20:23 PM

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Ahubaba wrote:
Hi Woolmer,

I personally think that mescaline is a bit of a dirtier substance in terms of its mechanism of action since it is also a strong adrenergic agonist at alpha 1 receptors. This brings in a whole lot of complications from vasodilation to hypertension in the periphery, merely reflecting on which can trigger anxiety or panic attacks. Moreover, in the brain alpha 1 receptors modulate the release of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and glutamate, which may explain how you experienced strong anxiety due to a sudden increase in cortical excitability. I can't explain with confidence how this state of anxiety lasted over a few weeks since I have not previously researched the after effects of adrenergic stimulants, though since I am developing a deeper interest in mescaline I will hopefully be able to come up with an explanation in the future. I believe my experience was something completely different to a mescaline trip, or it was so heavily altered by the rest of the alkaloids in the lophophora, it became unrecognizable to me.

In this lophophora experience 3 dried buttons that were 5 cms when fresh, one 7 cm button and small chunks (total of four dry buttons that were 3-4 cms when fresh) of caespitose were consumed as a raw blended mixture. This was not boiled. This experience didn't induce any classic mescaline effects but instead created a drastic pitch shift where every sound was toned down to lower frequencies. *At some point during the come up I chewed some harsh gum to relieve tense jaw and had an uncomfortable crunch around my left jaw joint. This will be relevant later on. As I got more affected a feeling of vacuum settled in around the left hemisphere of my head, concentrating especially around the ear. Blood pressure was very high and I could feel a quite strong beat pushing against my index finger when I placed it on the carotid arteries in my neck. Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to properly measure my blood pressure. At some point I felt sleepy, laid down and had very convincing dreams of being a gypsy girl of 3 sisters. This fragment of the experience didn't feel profound at all. It just felt like the reality. Also I never really saw classical patterning, felt euphoria or my thoughts manifested themselves. No psychedelia whatsoever. These make me think that what I ate was not L. williamsii, and if there was any in the mixture it must have been an overwhelming minority. After I woke up I was feeling quite disoriented and buzzy in the head. I had a bit of a vague grain in my vision and I had this extremely unpleasant feeling of vacuum in my left ear. There was this soft windblow that I could hear flowing into my left earhole, as if air was constantly beign sucked into my head and it was very annoying, though this dissapeared with the end of the experience. However what I am going to describe now stuck with me for YEARS: I felt like I was seriously deafened in my left ear and had a 2-tone tinnitus, one incredibly high frequency and a pure tone at 2000 hZ. They had both somatic components, meaning that I could feel the shrill sound as some distant mental pain and the mid frequency as a sensation of pressure in my left side. Also I couldn't feel the vibrations in my eardrums, and didn't even notice that it adds so much to hearing experience before I lost that ability that night. It was weird to me that no test indicated actual hearing loss, though I noticed a trend of 10-decibel loss up to 1000 hZ in my left ear indeed. The assembly line called medicine assesses your health in certain situations so that as long as you are well enough to undertake your tasks you are "fine". These tests for subjective hearing threshold usually consider that you have acute hearing until you are unable to hear 15 deciebels at a given frequency, which is ridiculous. A very long story short, I had to spend a year to self-dianose myself with TMJ after ruling out tumors, any bloody ear condition/disease and a host of systemic diseases. The issue, is I got TMJ because of the tense jaw I experienced, which is ultimately a result of peyote consumption. Also to this day I am still not sure if the auditory after effects are because of TMJ or the cactus. I read the literature regarding TMJ and very limited and precious experience reports of peyote and I am convinced that both are capable of inducing these symptoms. This is the conundrum that put me in odds with psychedelics, since I had a perceivable problem and no clear reason behind it. I had a couple of acid and one mushroom experience after that trip. In those I would only see fleeting CEVs that were partial, as if the machinery producing them was not powering up enough to put up a full show. Although I must say that must be my lack of surrendering myself to pretty much any mind alteration afterwards, which might actually be looking at the same thing from different perspectives now that I think about it. In my last mescaline experience CEV intensity was quite nice, but I must note that I made significant progress with the TMJ treatment meanwhile and tinnitus subsided drastically.

I should thank to Coastal again since I am littering his thread with long posts which sometimes come out as a bit off-topic. After reading this thread I decided to put together all the available information on the practices and easily obtainable supplements to combat the bodyload and notorious mental edge inherent to some cactus experiences. It is really inspiring to me when people care to share difficult experiences with relevant details, since these reports provide us with data we can use to have a better grip on the physiology of the experiences which is one of the biggest strengths of this forum.

Sorry to hear about your TMJ problem.

Lophophora diffusa contains mostly pellotine. Apparently, pellotine is thought to have sedative properties, though i don't know it's mechanism of action.

The williamsii also contains some pellotine though, and i think that is the main reason i generally find torches to give a more clear-headed experience than peyote's.
 
Ahubaba
#80 Posted : 5/28/2020 7:51:58 PM

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I also read as much as I can about the more than 50 other alkaloids in lophophora and managed to find a single experience report about diffusa where the person also describes a delirium like state. It was sedating I guess, but I would call it more of a stupor. Sad that there are so many potential compounds behind these effects which will probably never going to be properly identified and researched. Better to play safe I guess. Being able to have a pure compound is bliss. The more chemicals on your plate means more room for adverse interactions.
The fool who picked this pen will always be wiser than the fool who dropped it.
-Excrept from Chasing Shadows
 
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