Going through all these salvia posts here on the forum, it becomes clear to me that most writers consider the salvia spirit shy. A view based on what? I get the impression that if someone says so it becomes ‘true’ and others feel ‘obliged’ to confirm this. But I could be wrong. As far as I remember I have not read a post yet in which the dmt spirit is depicted as such. Obviously a salvia characteristic.

Although in the salvia experience the ‘spirit’ manifests itself different than in the dmt experience, there is a spirit present in both. Hard to explain how I notice the difference but in my opinion not due to shyness. The salvia spirit seems to be more understanding.

I would like to hear from others why and how they experience the spirit as shy. Or not shy at all .

Thanks for reading.

It took me some time and a lot of chewing Salvia leaves before she opened the doors.. Also the spirits in my sense are not so in your face as when you use dmt.. they are more like hiding behind the curtains.. and whisper..

She also have a very gentle and calm energy in my sense.. Dont get me wrong she can be very powerful.. but powerful in a gentle way.. Smoking is another matter but that route I dont use.. It feels wrong with her..

And also with DMT.. there we monkeys have mixtured with the things and taken a part the toys to choose one molecule.. And with that molecule blast through the front door no matter if the spirits wants or not.... haha.. Monkey style!

When you work with Ayahuasca the shyness can be present as well.. and a lot of work often needs to be done before you go anywhere.. but when you have a gentle, respectable and humble approach with very strong medicine you can have experiences beyond anything imaginable.. Beyond all smoked DMT in the world..

Maybe I'm just too insensitive or left-brained or something, but I've never really felt the spirit of any molecule, plant, fungus, etc.

I'm open to the idea of it and tried, but it just hasn't worked out that way for me. So I give the tools proper respect and hold them sacred, but have kind of given up on hoping to meet the spirits of the medicines myself. I'm very happy for others that do get to have that experience, though :-)

Of course, repeated use of any substance brings familiarity, but because Salvia specifically is just so different, repeated use is needed to understand what is happening while in salvia space.

Once familiar, one can more expertly work with the tools that salvinorin offers more. I think chewing the leaves or working with low doses of smoked/vaped leaf allows for learning this space much quicker and easier than smoking large doses of extracts.

IMO, salvinorin is like a key (or hack) that lets one experience themselves from a deeper level and different perspective than our everyday perspective. It's like putting on glasses to see better, but these glasses are for your awareness/perspective/mind rather than for your eyes. There are specific and practical abilities that are gained while it is in your system, and they are repeatable from trip to trip, and generally from person to person.

The "shy deer" reference comes from Mazatec lore. Traditional use was not with smoked extracts. What I recommend to those unfamiliar with the SD head space, is to initially use smoked extract. Once, so initiated, the less extreme quid or tincture ROA seems more effective. The gentler, yet obvious consort with SD is better appreciated after being introduced via smoked extract. Many, myself included, find the traditional ROA more ergonomic, practical and pragmatic henceforth. Smoked extract is really too discombobulating for an ongoing relationship with, the Shepherdess. Quid and tincture are definitively the "shy deer" analogy. Smoked extract...not so much!

Peace

Three responses give three completely different views on the matter. Thank you. I appreciate this.

Good to hear these perspectives.

Other salvia users? Input is more than welcome .

The "reverse tolerance" effect often mentioned re SD is likely more of a psychologic familiarization as opposed to a true physiologic/pharmacologic response. Excluding SD "hard heads", most individuals will experience the intense, bizarre psycho-somatic response to smoked extracts(enhanced leaf).

Using less "severe" ROAs ie, smoked plain leaf, quids or tincture, the effects are shallow, yet profound once habituated to the SD head space. A trance can be induced during which it is quite possible to volitionally return to consensus reality if disturbed or chosen. To me at least, this describes the "shy deer" metaphor, not so much an "entity" or "spirit".

The effects so engendered with gentler ROAs are somewhat subtle and typically easier to appreciate in a dim, quiet setting. It is this head space that is rather ergonomic and can be incorporated into an ongoing consort with, Ska Maria Pastora. Again, using the reference metaphorically, for me at least.

As a side note, in our non-traditional, Western paradigm, we recognize the psychic effects from hallucinogens is the result of particular, well described molecules interacting with CNS receptors in specific neural pathways. This allowed, we are no closer to explaining the "why" of these deeply mysterious consciousness modifiers than were our more "indigenous" brethren who described the effects as arising from concourse with particular "spirits"!

Peace