Not a coldness, but a hotness in the face and generally feeling weak.

Another thing about tea is that all the goodies are right there for your body to digest, whereas it has to digest the whole seeds and pull the alkaloids out of the shell. Personally I find the tea to hit harder than a grind.

Well as far as hotness goes, Harmalas do cause vasodilation, which can cause a feeling of warmth/hotness, the weakness i experience regardless if i'm using extracts or seed powder (roasted or raw), it's the relaxative, stoning/sedative, body-heavy properties of the Rue, too much and it'll absolutely floor and couch-lock you lol. I've personally had no problem with the digestion of the seed powder, consuming whole seed on the other hand i can see where that'd be slow to break down, but seed powder capsules have always hit me just fine and like clockwork, the same as when using extract in capsules. Tea hits quicker and harder because it's liquid and is absorbed faster in the stomach/gut compared to capsules, apparently, but tea is also quicker to move out of the stomach/gut once it's absorbed, hence why the timing can be wonky with tea compared to capsules of seed powder or extract imo.

I started many years ago with 5g mhrb and 3g rue and experienced light mushy trip; I kept experimenting but was convinced that the product was of bad quality. Years later I reviewed my technique of brewing. The 10g dose I recently took was no walk in the park but a "no walk in the park" is not half of what I'm aiming for. I'm aiming for a paralyzing psychedelic nose-dive here, no seatbelts, no chutes.


Last time I soft-boiled finely shredded/powdered mhrb (went so-so on the mortar and pestle effort). I estimate the time spent on the brewing to be around 30-40m x 4, each time I separated the solids from the liquid through tshirt cloth and a fine mesh, and made a new batch. After 4 turns I discarded the solids and combined the liquids. I took the advice from the "A/B, Boil or Simmer?" thread and I also used egg-whites to reduce the tannin's which worked like pure science btw. I then slowly reduced (no boil) the liquid to a shots-worth.

The rue seeds were boiled whole 30m x 3 then reduced just as with the mhrb.


In the 4g range that I used the last time: I get euphoria, soft trails, fuzzy feels and a stomach discomfort that's only relieved by lying down in an incline position.


From the rue starting 20m in and to the end of the bark effects 2.5h fading then almost 3 hours. The DMT feel was felt for a total of 2.5 hours.


I read about this too before trying the aya again and I read about some food or beverage working well to further the absorption in the stomach.
I did chase the two separate teas with milk which does wonders for the taste-removal; it's something I can recommend.

I appreciate the thoroughly expressed responses.

Its normal in my sense.. Probably what most people would call a strong trip.. Body dissolves and landscapes of other dimensions open up etc etc.. hard to describe... But if you want to get to the other levels then I think 15g would do it.. This is so hard to discuss because people have very different opinions on what is strong and the characteristics of that.. Strong is not even a word that should apply to these medicines..

Maybe strong isn't a suitable adjective for the subject being.

Let me rephrase: I want to go as far as my mind can handle. That is before the blackouts occur but not until the complete spirit of aya has gone through my every essence of living.

I want to enter the shaman and tap into my very core being that's lurking submerged under the deepest layers of my subconsciousness.

Spoken like a true psychonaut

I understand you brother.. then what you do is following: Take 100g Yellow Caapi. And 30g of Chaliponga.. boil it for minimum 12 hours in silence just focusing on the brew and nothing else.. don't eat and don't sleep.. reduce it to 10cl.. drink 5cl.. sit up and hold it down in darkness.. after 30min drink the rest and sit up hold it down don't vomit.. focus breath relax.. when you feel the effects coming lay down press play on your prepared playlist and prepare to die... Connect to your Viking spirit hold on to your sword and focus!

4g is not enough rue , it's the bare minimum

Actually that's around 2, that's the bare minimum, 4 grams is actually pretty strong for most people. I wouldn't recommend going over 4.5 to 5 grams personally, 3 to 4.5 grams seems to be the most common dosage range for people.

I've also read that around 2g is needed to inhibit but IME when consumed as a tea made from raw seeds it's easier to go for 3-4g to be sure you get enough. But then again several users has pointed out that 4g seems low; I'm not sure I agree though.

At 4g I already feel nauseated but I barely feel that way at 2. Beyond 4 and I feel a big risk of vomiting the aya so I usually stay at 4 - 4.5g.

Yeah, it's entirely possible that because Harmalas are metabolized by CYP2D6, and some people have higher amounts of CYP2D6, that some people would need more Rue than the average person, and conversely, people low in CYP2D6 would need a bit less than the average person. Although imo, if i had to pin point it, i'd say maybe people just aren't brewing the Rue efficiently? I've seen some crazy recommended dosages like for Mimosa or Acacia root, and imo that comes down to it being brewed inefficiently. I mean potency of the plants can sometimes vary, but since i found Mimosa/Acacia and Rue in 2012, i've never really had to adjust the dosages for any of it once i found the dosages that work for me, the plants seem relatively consistent ime, at least these plants do. But yeah 4 grams is pretty strong stuff, i've never even really went past 4.5 grams, i'd just take the same dosage and let the reverse tolerance build up which makes the Harmala content stronger and stronger each time but i've read that above 5 grams of Rue is unnecessary, 3 to 4 grams for most people seems to work pretty well. 2 to 2.5 grams can work, but it's a light dosage, definitely makes quite a difference though especially with Psilohuasca, in fact my best Psilohuasca experience to date, came from taking 2.5 grams of Rue with 30 to 35mgs of 4-ACO-DMT with like 4 grams of Lemon Balm tea, powerful and amazing Psilohuasca experience, very similar to Aya with oral DMT but gentler, looser, more relaxed compared to DMT's more serious edginess.

Well in this thread people are talking about 10g of mimosa and still no one wants to go above 5g rue

Vomiting only happens if the rue is drank fast , I drink my rue+mimosa tea over 20 minutes , sipping a bit every 5 minutes until it's finished in four sips

at first 5g might seem like too much but that is when trails start just from the rue , work slowly to increase your rue doseage , this way there will be no need of needing so much mimosa

With a lot of rue the breakthroughs will be of a different character

Here is my technique for brewing the rue tea , I said brewing not boiling ,the temperature will come to a boil at times but must be a lowered regularly for the duration of brewing to a little under boiling temp , simmer the seeds in water for 20 minutes or so until the colour runs from the rue to water , do this 4-6 times untill all the colour runs from the rue , add fresh water for every wash , so total of 100 or more minutes , now add each batch of water together and reduce the tea on the lowest temperature you can , don't boil to reduce fast , always keep the temperature below boiling it may take 5 Hours or more depending on the amount of tea , for the whole process I take almost a day , I brew mimosa separately but in the same way only I add lemon juice to get the most out of it

I drink mimosa and rue together , it's works stronger for me that way rather than waiting 20 minutes between rue and mimosa or anything like that

I would say take 7g rue + 2g mimosa

I use whole rue + powdered mimosa for the tea , shredded mimosa should work aswell

Edit: I had to add this for safety if you are just starting out and have not much brewing experience , work on that first because every gram of rue will increase the strength of mimosa exponentially or so

Hmmm sounds odd because IME and according to Ott.J and Shulgin.A they found no increase in MAO-i activity with dosages above 3-5g of rue (Ott 1994; Shulgin 1997; G&Z 1986); they go further stating that "For use as a MAOI, 3-5 g of seeds (approximately 1.5 mg harmala alkaloids per kilogram body mass) appears to be sufficient to activate oral DMT.

Whereas 2g mhrb sounds really low for my purposes.

Again I'm no expert in the subject but I can't imagine that 5g mhrb with 1-2% alkaloid content giving us 50-100mg DMT would actually give you the effect of 50-100mg vape experience since the duration far exceeds the vaping method and has to be absorbed through a much slower medium while this is only possible as long as the MAO-i is in effect.

I appreciate the advice on the rue-brewing method but I doubt that I'll need more than 4g. I might up the dose once hit the spot at least once before and try to dial in the dosages more precisely.

On my 10-4g dose I did last time I could still move and even stand up which means that I was far from my youths vaped dmt-dosages.

I will post a more detailed post here later on tonight, but i just wanted to say real quick that for the average person, do not take high dosages lightly. Trust me on this, i have a lot of experience with Rue and Mimosa/Acacia, i've taken it daily/near daily for 4 years from 2012 to 2015, and there are circumstances/consequences to excess of both aspects (Harmalas, and DMT). If you're just starting out, work on brewing efficiently, or perhaps go for pure extracts and proper timing, and start low on the DMT side of things, not much harm can come from too much Harmalas except quite noticeable nausea/vomiting, tracers, dizziness, motion sickness, and being sedated, but if one consumes too much DMT, especially on top of a strong/heavy dosage of Harmalas/Rue/Caapi, they will be in for a hell of a terrifying ride lol, oral DMT is very intense and powerful stuff and is not to be taken lightly, you may find yourself overwhelmed and freaking out and panicking, but in the event such a thing does occur, i personally find vomiting to be useful for calming things down, i find music to be good for calming things down, i find breathing to be good for calming things down, and of course, try to let go/surrender and not fight or resist it. I do not recommend Rue dosages above 5 grams, i say stick to 3 to 4.5 grams. If you don't know how strong 4 to 4.5 grams of Rue can be, i highly suggest grinding up the Rue seed and encapsulating 4 to 4.5 grams of the seed powder and consume it, then you'll know lol. Most often with people recommending higher dosages than the generally recommended dosages, it's because people aren't brewing it efficiently or in the Harmalas/Rue aspect they may have higher amounts of CYP2D6 and thus require more of a dosage than the average person. Also it's recommended to boil the plants, not simmer them, hard boiling the plants will not affect potency and will not degrade the actives. Trust me on this. If you do not boil the plants, chances are they're not being brewed efficiently.

In my sense and experience it's all about finding the sweet spot between the Harmalas and the DMT.. And sorry but 7g of rue and 2g of Mimosa is not a sweet spot, it's totally unbalanced.

We did a soft boil last time but I might try hard boiling them this time.

I'd say I'm veryexperienced in hallucinogens from yopo, salvia, mescaline, vaped dmt, 5-meo etc.

I just haven't hit the spot with aya yet hence the topic.

I've read extensively about aya and dosages and no report I've come across with 10g seems to produce the results that I'm looking for.



It does sound odd but to each his own; we are all individuals with different needs and goals.

When I used to hit the sweet spot with vaped DMT I was just not in my lit dinner-room anymore. There's no OEV or CEV to talk about; it just is. That's as good as I can explain it.

I've tried aya a total of perhaps 5 times now and my last experience at the high dose of 10g was by far the strongest albeit not strong enough for me.

I have boiled off rue actives many a times , I have had powdered encapsulated rue , lemon juice brewed rue , boiled rue and harmala extracts

When I say brewing I don't mean it will not reach a boiling temperature I mean control it , I use an induction top , also I have many a times boiled it to a degree where the rue tea is no more active , in the past on many occasions I have had teas that were boiled really well but we're weak , boiling initial washes might be cool but especially while reducing the tea if the temperatures are too high it only weakens it , this has been just my experience

I suppose there was even a thread about boiling the tea to the extent that it would turn harmaline into thh , and I remember I tried this and all it did was make the tea weaker even to the extent that it became totally inactive


https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=31699

Interesting and it does voice concern over my rue-boiling technique. I think that I did a rolling boil with the rue... The rue was definitely active though and it was felt even before I consumed the bark. Not sure how much a boil x time could reduce the activeness of the maoi properties in the rue.

Honestly I would just say please don't start with 10g mimosa if you have'nt got brewing down yet

First get the brewing down you might need to brew a few times before you find the most suitable method for you

Then proceed cautiously with both low amounts of rue and mimosa

and increase as you desire and feel comfortable with

I boil only during washes to get the colour out (4-6washes) , but not rolling boil , a more controlled boiling , each wash can take 20-25 mins

and when reducing I use the lowest temperature possible , reducing at a low temperature can take many hours but it's worth it