I am a professional golfer and it is an absolute must to feel a golf club and golf ball when in alternate dimensions. In fact, I live less than 3 miles from a course and the walk is right through a regional park. I plan on taking a trip with the pup during my next experience...get in touch with the game beyond the game.

I have personally found a balance of nature, your internal rhythm, and your reaction to your environment to slow down. To be at one...with it all.

I also agree with that psychedelics can be use as tools to explore facets of consciousness. My understanding is that traditional ways of using chanting, dancing, movements...etc are ways to enter the trance state so to somewhat remove the egoic barrier when they had no access to active substances. So the 'physical active' component isn't really a necessity as now people have the tools to hack the system without the need to go through those physical routes.

Perhaps the ultimate way is to intentionally completely still the physical movements, then still the mind and completely present in the full awareness with the help of psychedelics to go deeper within, and through that, to the cosmo... just some wild ideas!

In traditional shamanic contexts they still perform these activities. Shamans often perform the activities without taking the drugs, but they do not often (if ever) take the drugs without performing the activities. Using psychedelics is not an innovation for them, they’ve been doing it for a while.

The method you mention is plausible. The Santo Daime perform silent sittings as one form of their rituals. I personally use meditation or yoga, mainly. Yoga is not traditional with psychedelics, but it does in my experience deepen things.

Technique both deepens the experience and makes you more of an active agent in determining the nature of the experience, to the point that shamans claim they can perform magical medical services for clients - which can include hurting other people’s health, if that’s what you want to pay them to do and if they don’t have any ethical objections. Shamans are witch doctors and there are no hippocratic oaths. Many people when they realize this is what they are denounce the whole thing as faith healing. For some reason people have an idea that they are monks whose project is soteriological. This is not accurate. They are not trying to attain Nirvana, Moksha, Theosis, Henosis, or other similar mystical categories. They are trying to deepen the experience and use it for certain utilitarian ends - primarily, healing very particular illnesses or discovering the means of doing so (i.e. what plant should my client consume to feel better?).

Yes, certainly I generalized somewhat about chanting, dancing, movements. They can and have been used other than just tools to loosen the egoic hold of the mind. And yes some rituals and rites has been handed down for thousands of years and with different ways added or subtracted. Who knows how and where these started...

I see perhaps we are mixing the two components within the context of journeying. There is the ritual aspect where there are chants, invocations, dances, movements...etc either before or during by oneself or the shaman, guide or elder. This is more of the setting aspect as I understand.

The set as the journeyman who is partaking the journey with a shaman typically will be in a more passive and receptive mode I suppose. The goal is to go inward, so doing a lot of physical activities seem to be counterintuitive and counterproductive imo. Well, in this day and age there is no need to adhere to what strict rules unless one is in a group with rules. It all comes down to whatever combination rocks the boat and one feels best serves.

Well sure, but what I’m pointing out is that what the shaman does is not reducible to furniture for your trip — and what she or he is doing is not reducible to a passive environment or mindset. So you’re in a mouldy basement and you woke up feeling a little blue? Doesn’t matter. It’s not ideal, but now you drum, or chant, or meditate, or whatever. This is an internal activity not reducible to a passive good-vibes mindset or happy environment. These things are important - but there is a further active component to the development of a trip - or there can be, that is.

One more skillset to add is intentional use of scent. I'm pretty sure there are adepts at this modality in various arenas of non-conventional healing, both psychedelic and non-psychedelic.

Yes, good scent and good music is a must. I like Monarda o Ylang Ylang for the humidifier.

Interesting! I’ve heard shamans prepare “flower baths”.

The first “mystical” experience I had was on 600 ug of orange sunshine when the smell of a joint wafted over... I didn’t smoke it, just smelled it, and knew immediately without a doubt in my mind, “I am God.” Proceeded to crunch my neck into place after not being able to turn it to the right for three years after seeing specialists who could help with nothing. The crunch was so loud people across the room heard it, and my neck has been fine ever since.

I find consuming marijuana is not so great while tripping for me personally (everyone is different), but as an incense I think it is my favorite of all the incenses. Just gotta get a bunch of cheap leaves to burn.

Regarding scent. Burning on a chunk of Palo Santo is one of my favorite smells. I burn some every time I smoalk dmt.

Yes, I quite like that one as well. I’m also fond of Frankincense and Myrrh by Three Kings (same stuff they use at the Vatican), although that stuff may be a little too strong for some people.

Nothing ever strikes me in the way cannabis does though. Hate to smoke it when tripping, but as an incense... it just lights me up. Possibly because of all the smoking I’ve done in my life, but also it’s just so unique.

I’ve heard copal is pretty great as well, but I’ve never tried it.

gotta Sage up the whole house and crack a window open. Sage bundles are cute and smell good

A little bit of Copal mixed with Sage is perfect if you drink Ayhuasca and feel for vomiting

Very happy to read this thread.

I've been on the same train of thought for a bit, and I like the way you call it - 'skill-based tripping'.

It struck me odd for a while - that most psychonauts are seemingly not interested in seriously exploring how to train their mind and body to be effective tools in their journeys.

To me it kind of was close to a waste of time, if this wasn't taken into context, as in my opinion if we want to use psychedelics for growth, both of our selves, and society, we have to train our selves with them.

My idea was that using the methods we already have (meditation, Yoga,...) in combination with psychedelics would lead to an ever deeper understanding of both components, ultimately leading to a holistic system of practice. Looking at the few ancient cultures remaining that use psychedelics in a traditional context it is likely to say that it went down for them in a similar way.

Unfortunately for me following this path deeper, it ultimately meant having to say goodbye to psychedelics. The practices that I originally intended for skillful tripping where too powerful to be combined with tripping for most people (me included). Having had to choose between the two, the new-found practices won in the end, as ultimately I judged them as a more sustainable and safe way to achieve my goals.

Skillset is a another wonderful tool in the closet , be it meditation , yoga , chanting or shamanic singing , dancing and whatever you may have as long as it's used intelligently ,

There are times I had to drop all skillset and just experience whatever the experience was showing me , there are times the set,setting and the skillset does not apply and must be dropped to learn even more

Thus one must use it all wisely and know when to go beyond

I’d love to hear more. I will be ordaining as a monk soon, and after a decade in a monastery, I intend to re-engage psychedelics as a public figure. This will be my life’s work I think. For me, skill-based tripping not only deepened my experiences but led to far greater agency and security in engaging with psychedelics, whereas before I was more prone to just being knocked over. Were you experiencing things that were simply too intense that had never surfaced before?

Cool! Always happy to exchange with a serious practitioner. May I ask which tradition you plan to ordain in? 10 years is a long time to plan upfront, have you had any experience in prolonged monastic life before?

As to your question...
In general the skill I trained for in meditation definitely also made me less prone to being knocked over, but also got me to some very strong and meaningful energy-somatic experiences, which I probably wouldn't have gotten to without the skill.
However, I never fully trusted in the safety of combining the two, which made me kind of hesitant to fully go into meditation while tripping. I tried to intellectually research the combination as much as I could, as I really wanted it to be a good thing, but I never got around to fully trusting it.

Towards the end my relation to trips wasn't that great anymore, as I felt I had touched a limit of what was useful for me at this point. I would have taken a break either way, but at that point I was still interested in taking them up again after a hiatus.

While jumping around different meditation and yoga teachers for most my teen till adult life, in the last year I finally came along a teacher I am willing to commit to indefinitely. The system and techniques he teaches are of Daoist nature and therefor involve a lot of energy work.

The thing is, he strongly advices students to not use any psychedelics, if they are seriously practicing this system, as he says the practice is so effective in itself in inducing change, that combining the two together is like putting gasoline on fire and you can possibly create a lot of damage. As I believe in the power of the practice, and trust my teacher, I have decided to listen to his advice, and accept this restriction of my personal life as long as I stay dedicated to this system.

After studying Chinese medicine with him, which involves some quite esoteric theories, I see how intricate the makeup of our existence is, and how something as powerful as a psychedelic could possibly wreak havoc in there. I still believe in the healing power of psychedelics, mostly plant based. I also don't doubt that at a higher level, it is possible to combine the two. However, I am not sure if someone at a really high level would even still be interested to use them.

The main dangers as far as I understand it, are inducing chaotic change in your body that, will lead energy into places it's not supposed to go, and convert substances at a speed too rapidly.
Also, delusion can be a problem. Especially for the spiritual seeker this is not to be underestimated.
I believe in general the argument of using these practices as a tool to maneuver psychedelic experiences is pretty valid. The part mentioned above is kind of the cooking process, but let's say your fully 'cooked' your skills, and then trip, I believe a lot of potential arises, but also possibly a new set of danger, which I don't fully understand. Maybe read up Hyperspace Fool, if you haven't yet. He was big on skill based tripping, and as far as I see quite well developed.

If for some reason life leads me again to psychedelics, I would probably try to learn the necessary skills from those who have an ancient tradition around it, namely the ayahuasceros in the Americas. My respect for ancient traditions has skyrocketed in the last year, and that's definitely how I would approach it.

Like you, I also planned to make something big out of combining the two. When I started to get into Daoist and Chinese Medicine Models of the energetic and spiritual body, I saw so much untapped potential to combine the two into a field of research and practice. It is the most complete system of these matters I've ever came upon. I will have to see if I'll maybe be able to continue this research without taking psychedelics, maybe in some form of harm reduction lectures.

Any way great topic

I have not engaged in long-term monastic life yet, but I think I read myself pretty clearly. I’ve visited and lived at the monastery I’ll be joining before, and it felt as though there was a deep commitment there to the practice which I have found so centrally beneficial to my existence, and it is something I want to commit to singularly.

With ayahuasca, I did not bring any sort of practice beyond anapanasati breathing for the most part, but it seemed that it never did anything except heal me in ways that were far beyond my discursive mind’s ability to control or know. The knowledge I take to ayahuasca is methodological but not comprehensive of the experience itself: it is a posture which unveils its own activity with higher levels of concentrated awareness. I always felt not only safe, but far safer with ayahuasca guiding me. I would be frightened to engage in exploration that deep without the guidance of ayahuasca. It has never been anything to me but a miraculous healer and guide, whose assistance I can partition more and more with increasing familiarity.

Yooooo, I think there's a chance someone at this organization ( https://medicinalmindfulness.org/ ) read this post! (Wouldn't be too unreasonable, this post got 11,600 views and DMT-Nexus is a very prominent site). If these guys got this from this post, that is COOL AS HECK!!!!! I would LOVE IT if that idea got picked up and absorbed in the psychedelic renaissance conversation! That is exactly the kind of thing I hoped would happen! DMT-Nexus RULES!

From their website:

"Most in the psychedelic community know the concept of “set and setting,” which refers to having the right mindset and the right setting in which to take psychedelic journeys. But what’s missing from this equation, in our estimation, is skill. Journeyers are often not taught how to navigate these experiences, so they are at the mercy of the medicine."