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Is DMT an inner mind experience or an out of mind experience??? Carl Jung? Options
 
Aslan
#1 Posted : 7/7/2013 6:29:10 AM
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I'm curious, I've never done DMT, at least not yet, but I was wondering from those who have: do you think that DMT reveals your inner mind and its subconscious and instinct, or do you believe that DMT reveals a realm outside all your previous knowledge and all instincts.

I'm just curious because I have heard that Carl Jung devoted a lot of time to the idea that humans instinctively have a universal set of symbols. For instance, dragons in caves is men's fear of vaginas...

So do you think that while you are on DMT you are tapping into these universal instinctive symbols, or do you think that you are tapping into a realm outside of the human psyche?
 

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aleph 1ne
#2 Posted : 7/7/2013 7:49:10 AM

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i have had experiences with the Akashic book/record on DMT, as well as other very "out there" experiences that lead me to believe that the smoalk takes me to places that exist with or with out me, showing me info outside of myself.

I have also written trip reports here on the Nexus, only to find that others have visited the same places i have, and come across similar entities. I've even done it with others, in the process, discovering that we were in the same places observing the same scenarios. .

All in all, everything points to "hyperspace" being a place outside of personal experience. As real as any.
There are absolutely universal symbols that many people have reported, but none as simple and plain as dragons in caves meaning this or that. Many of the symbols are more profound and less based in ego (IMO). With roots in the ancient and sacred.

Having said all this, I do believe that upon return to ordinary consciousness, We relate and integrate this universal experience using our inner guidance and intuitions, comparing it to our current state of being and finding meaning.
So to me it is very much both an inner and outer body experience. Sometimes, when I return, I can feel points of tension within the body, where stresses are stored, most of which unravel in the days following a good breakthrough.

Some experiences I've had have been so in line with my daily life that it's scary.. It leaves me with the feeling like the molecule looks inside me and delivers me to the external "place" most suited to shed light on my position.

Of course, all of this is but my humble estimation. please take it as such. I hope it helps Cool
Bless and happy travels!
 
adam
#3 Posted : 7/7/2013 9:55:57 AM

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takes you to the inside, upside, downslide, outside.

I kind of think that talking about where dmt takes you is impossible to explain. But wherever this place is it seems to contain much of what Jung talked about and more. If Jung hit some dmt he probably would have come to similar conclusions as he already did, I feel like he was a pretty far out guy.

But for your question I say the answer is both. You experience universal symbols that also feel outside the human experience ime. I have seen symbols that I havent seen before that seem loaded with meaning in the hyperspace realms. Really though I find smoking dmt akin to discovering a transcendental language, although sometimes the seemingly most valuable aspects of the experience are beyond language or any thought of it, depending on how you define language i suppose.

Also do men actually fear vaginas? lol
 
Jees
#4 Posted : 7/7/2013 10:30:33 AM

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Inner mind and outer world realms, things seem to blend into each other too, very weird.
 
Aslan
#5 Posted : 7/7/2013 3:55:11 PM
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So, you would say that DMT takes both places: inspecting the inside of your mind and exploring outside your psyche.

Which makes me wonder, considering you believe hyperspace is independent of your own mind, are any of you guys atheist after doing DMT?
 
endlessness
#6 Posted : 7/7/2013 4:00:05 PM

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Nathanial.Dread
#7 Posted : 7/7/2013 4:12:59 PM

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I am a firm member of the "it-takes-you-inside" camp.

The fact that we all go to similar places and see similar things says to me that there are a lot of things about us human beings that are the same. We are built the same way, we have the same architecture. We share 99.8% of our genes, so why should this be surprising?

It's a beautiful thing, to me. A reminder that we're not so different, we have the same inner worlds and I like to think that one day it will be the impetus for a more cohesive, unified mankind.

Blessings
~ND
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
tatt
#8 Posted : 7/7/2013 4:58:45 PM
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It's hard to truly say, even after years of journeying.





Smoke it and see... Wink
 
aleph 1ne
#9 Posted : 7/7/2013 10:46:13 PM

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Aslan wrote:

Which makes me wonder, considering you believe hyperspace is independent of your own mind, are any of you guys atheist after doing DMT?


Oh no. Not for me, anyway. Quite the opposite, in fact..


I love what Nathanial.Dread said.. beautiful indeed. I have a few friends who subscribe to the same line of thinking.
I Respect it greatly, and though my intuition leads me in a different direction, it somehow still rings true to me. Hence, feeling like both inner and outer expeditions occur.
Personally, i feel like the entities I meet are truly out there. The unification I feel seems more universal than just humanity. It's all spirituality.

I've connected with the soul of Birds, plants, lizards, GODS, even entities I can't explain... so on.. In these experiences, I feel like I am connected with a timeless energy. Ancient and sacred.. I see the world before Humans.
I sometimes have the impression I am being transported back through evolution, to points in time where great evolutionary jumps have been made. i suppose it is possible that this is part of the human story, and therefore could also be an inward experience.. Regardless of the sensation of traveling outward..

My idea is this.. At the very small is the very big. And vice versa.. So maybe DMT takes you to that threshold. Where the most inward is outward ...
It's just So outrageously difficult to talk about. haha
i hope i haven't added more confusion!!

"smoke it and see" - the best advice yet!! Neutral
 
gibran2
#10 Posted : 7/8/2013 2:37:11 AM

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The question as asked assumes:

--- 1. There is an objective reality.

--- 2. What we experience under the influence of our normal neurochemicals is an “out of mind” experience.

--- 3. There is such a thing as an “inner mind experience”, which may or may not be brought about by altering our normal neurochemical balance.

If there is no solid, physical objective reality here or elsewhere, then the question doesn’t really make sense. It seems to me that it’s impossible to have an “out of mind” experience if all experience is a manifestation of Mind.

It’s possible that everything is what we would call, due to our limited understanding, an illusion. If so, then comparing an “out of mind” experience to an “inner mind” experience is comparing one illusion to another.
gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 
universecannon
#11 Posted : 7/8/2013 2:56:50 AM



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I think the urge to frame things in an over simplified yes or no / x or y format, where there is two options and it has to be either of these two options, is a symptom of our overly left brained state of mind. In hyperspace the question just becomes absolutely absurd and utterly meaningless IME, because inside/outside/everything becomes melted together into one continuum of experience

It could be both

and/or something we didn't anticipate at all

and/or etc etc etc

I like Jung a lot but in some ways he just had one piece of the puzzle... and like all of us he was limited to download ingit into language in a way that related with the terminology and idea systems floating around at the time in his culture. It was a model, but by no means the entire puzzle

anywho, thats just my perspective Smile
The Nexian


<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
aleph 1ne
#12 Posted : 7/8/2013 7:43:31 AM

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universecannon wrote:
the question just becomes absolutely absurd and utterly meaningless IME, because inside/outside/everything becomes melted together into one continuum of experience
_ Yup!! Smile

After reading the thread that endlessness posted, This is just how I felt.. haha.. Most things one experiences in hyperspace are seemingly impossible compared to what we're used to perceiving.. I often hear people speak about perceiving dichotomies..
Things that both are and aren't simultaneously.
infinite space and detail within a finite space..

Or a colour.. Say Blue, But no shade of blue that you've ever seen before. Not a relatable blue, but blue none the less.

After witnessing such things, it's hard for me to put much of anything in a specific category!! haha..
All I know is that there is no use in having semantics limit your experience.

For me the purpose of using such tools as DMT, is to possibly remove such limitations in the first place!!
Of course, the urge to talk about it is very strong, regardless of the outrageousness of the task.
 
tatt
#13 Posted : 7/8/2013 10:34:29 AM
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gibran2 wrote:
The question as asked assumes:

--- 1. There is an objective reality.

--- 2. What we experience under the influence of our normal neurochemicals is an “out of mind” experience.

--- 3. There is such a thing as an “inner mind experience”, which may or may not be brought about by altering our normal neurochemical balance.

If there is no solid, physical objective reality here or elsewhere, then the question doesn’t really make sense. It seems to me that it’s impossible to have an “out of mind” experience if all experience is a manifestation of Mind.

It’s possible that everything is what we would call, due to our limited understanding, an illusion. If so, then comparing an “out of mind” experience to an “inner mind” experience is comparing one illusion to another.


I agree completely with Gibran. In the face of the experience, this whole inner/outer thing completely dissolves. In the face of the experience, this inner/outer question is quite humorous.
 
dharmadhatu
#14 Posted : 2/14/2020 6:00:32 PM
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gibran2 wrote:
The question as asked assumes:

--- 1. There is an objective reality.

--- 2. What we experience under the influence of our normal neurochemicals is an “out of mind” experience.

--- 3. There is such a thing as an “inner mind experience”, which may or may not be brought about by altering our normal neurochemical balance.

If there is no solid, physical objective reality here or elsewhere, then the question doesn’t really make sense. It seems to me that it’s impossible to have an “out of mind” experience if all experience is a manifestation of Mind.

It’s possible that everything is what we would call, due to our limited understanding, an illusion. If so, then comparing an “out of mind” experience to an “inner mind” experience is comparing one illusion to another.


This bit:
Quote:
all experience is a manifestation of Mind.


reminded me of the (Tibetan) Mahamudra aspiration prayer:
Quote:

All experience is a manifestation of mind.
As for mind, there is no mind; by its nature it’s empty.
Empty and unrestricted, mind arises as experience.
By looking into mind deeply, may I be clear about how it is.

 
Jega
#15 Posted : 2/14/2020 10:49:46 PM

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My opinion - what's the difference? I believe the human mind is a portion of the universal mind (the one, God, call it what you will), and with DMT the barriers (ego) come down to a greater or lesser extent.

P.S. I'm not one who sees the ego in a negative light as something foreign to me or something to be gotten rid of. An imbalanced ego or one attached to pathological ideas is of course a bad thing, but the ego per-se is not bad.
 
dragonrider
#16 Posted : 2/14/2020 11:00:12 PM

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Aslan wrote:
I'm curious, I've never done DMT, at least not yet, but I was wondering from those who have: do you think that DMT reveals your inner mind and its subconscious and instinct, or do you believe that DMT reveals a realm outside all your previous knowledge and all instincts.

I'm just curious because I have heard that Carl Jung devoted a lot of time to the idea that humans instinctively have a universal set of symbols. For instance, dragons in caves is men's fear of vaginas...

So do you think that while you are on DMT you are tapping into these universal instinctive symbols, or do you think that you are tapping into a realm outside of the human psyche?

I don't know if dragons in caves by definition have to expres mens fear of vaginas.

Wouldn't that mean that bilbo baggins was meant to represent j.r.tolkiens dick?

So in that case "the hobbit" is a story about overcoming homosexuality...yeah, makes sense.
Bilbo baggins lives in the shire among his fellow hobbits. So that means, with his fellow homosexuals, because hobbits are known to be insular and very much attached to their homes. So that means, to their own gender ofcourse, so that means the shire represents male sexuality, that hobbits don't want to leave.
And then gandalf comes along with some dwarfs.

So gandalf is a wizard. And wizardry is magic, wich is ofcourse sex. So gandalf represents puberty.

And the dwarfs are also small, like hobbits, and they take bilbo with them on a great adventure, so the dwarfs represent women then, because they have to take him out of the shire, out of the world of homosexuals.

And they have to claim the great treasure that is inside the cave. So yeah, that is obviously about sex. I think we can all agree on that one.

So, of all great treasures inside this cave, the arkenstone is the most important one. So that clearly means the arkenstone is a female eggcell.
And thorin wants the arkenstone, but bilbo is afraid to give it to him, because thorin has become greedy...so that's a clear warning here to all men, to watch out for women who immediately want to get pregnant on a first date.

But luckily, bilbo can overcome all these obsticles because of the one ring that makes him invisible. So being invisible to the dragon inside this cave so that he can savely take the arkenstone with him, means....using a condom: "entering without being seen". It's quite obvious realy.

But in the end, the ring will have to be destroyed: if everyone is using birth control all the time, the human race will die out, so sauron, who represents death and the end of mankind, would win.

So the ring eventually will have to be thrown into the flames of mount doom, wich is a volcano. That is obviously a pregnant women there.

Yeah, it all makes sense now.
 
Exitwound
#17 Posted : 2/14/2020 11:37:55 PM

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What the hell did I just read Very happy
 
FranLover
#18 Posted : 2/14/2020 11:41:00 PM

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lol write a book about that Dragon. Hobbits Love Eachother; Analyzing the Lord of the Rings using the Freudian and Jungian Models of the Unconscious Laughing "Already has sold millions of copies!"-- The Washignton Post. "A classic amongst psychology students and fans of LOTR"-- New York Times. "Only now do I understand Tolkien's work"-- Stephen King.


anyway I'm pretty sure men are not afraid of vaginas any more than woman have penis envy. These are not the things revealed in the unconscious based on my experience.
Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
AikyO
#19 Posted : 2/15/2020 5:06:58 PM

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Mind > Inside Body. Known place and arcane, beyond realms: within.

I really think we need to stretch out how important is the visual component of the experience. Vision is the most extra censorial component of the body, it's a little cave that always makes you feel "out there" once the sun has burst in it. It is the only sense that can reach the stars. So the basic, the core thing of visual language will just be dots of lights.

You can see everything in the world as such. If you are looking at a plant, it breaks into multiple branches at the extremity of which will germinate buds. Let's say you have a pack of branches all coming forth to create a "plane" - that is they are on a similar plane and allow for the mind to put them in correlation - then you can use those "dots" and create something. And you will inevitably create a being. Because it's all there is to creates. Okay you have "pareidolia" and are looking at a tree and seeing a bird face, but isn't there trees inside the bird face ? Yours ?

Deconstructing meta awareness of those processes of projection, you will observe something: every set of dots can be observed in multiple ways. What happens is your mind automatically "animates" the world, the dots, depending on how you look at it. That is when deconstructing, you can become aware that there's a "road" awarness takes through the dots and that gives those peculiar set of branches a feeling, a mood, a character. But, as much as there are dots and possibilities, those possibilities exist and are finite. So if you get back to that childhood cloud, yes, there is a dragon there, they are also other things. It's not one sided, linear, it's a field.

What has happened with the dots ? A flatening. That is, the ability of the mind is to put on "flat" medium things, it allows to correlate, associate, compare, ... The mind seeks this flat space where it occurs because it brings serenity, things are on a seamless eternal wave. Like a soothing sky maybe, as, once you get out a certain range, everything in your visual field is put on a similar length, the dimensional fades. This reminds the setting sun on the horizon line.

Now, you can only see a certain range of character, of bodies, in those fractals pattern that are everywhere in nature, not only because your mind is body grounded, and will seek to empathize with what it sees and correlate the information, that is also censorial, to what is projected out, but because those patterns are indeed there. And indeed they form a certain set of forms and some forms are extremely recurrent.

Because sight was acquired at birth, every strong enhancing in sight will result in feelings of rebirth and will consequentially brings memories from the womb. What was the womb ? It was a body that was not yours but that you could feel. That is, without moving, you were projecting onto this body. It's a core ability of the mind: it moves independently from the body.

So when you're all liquid and melted into the unfathomable (and let's be real not amount of understanding amount to jackshit when it gets real), what happens ? My opinion is that we see the same ability of projection and it does not go even very far within - maybe it actually does but I can't conjecture to what I haven't experienced in a diluted way - but it founds that liquid place. So what is liquid, that is correlated to heart beats and breath and that forms fractal patterns akin to branches and rivers and is in reachable realm for even daily awareness ? Veins. So what is the relationship of the mind with those ? Well, the mind, light, dictates breath, wind, which interacts with the blood flow through the heart. If you've been a bit crazy focused on breath it can be very apparent, but a point that has to be built from this is that the mind, awareness, focus, is always somewhere in the body. That is, if you are anxious or stress, awareness will stress the flow in certain parts of your body - which happens through breath, because everything in the body is linked, a tiny "hold" a certain moment of breath, a little inflection in the way the air flows,a contraction of the nostril muscles (and what they are linked to) and it is correlated to both: a part of your body, and an emotional state. You can stretch this and observe that certain posture evoke certain feelings, and if you do those postures they will change your mood, because they changed your flow and changed your heart.

This mean multiple things: if in you every part of your body is linked together, obviously you are aware of it at some yet unknown level of you, and if this information bubbles out, a certain set of association can be made. If breath dictates the flow of the body, and if you can observe every parts of your body, it means that everywhere there are eyes, mouths. Every bit of you can see, sing. What you are left is not a body but a mind. There is only mind.

Same for the outside. If you take anything, the most banal building in your town, and correlate what you are seeing, piece things together and project onto it, you will see faces. And the fact that you can only build faces speaks both the actual function of the building and it's evident direction, which has been becoming very concrete in modern times. Man always builds people. And there's no real differences between those peoples and himself, we could call them, self sustaining source of the mind and extension of language of the world, among other things.

So there, you are know living in entity realm anytime, anywhere.

But this stage of the experience is enhanced by some over component, which I've slightly evoked: syneshesis. There is a blend bewteen the mind and its separated islands. But because the support of the projection changed - it's not the outside world but has it's degree of realism, and it's not dreams, where the projection is not that focused and incarnated - then you get a very specific type of experience (maybe the reason why that is is because of the molecule occurrence on the body). And because you focuse on those internal fractal patterns, you are not really you anymore, this vague image of you you had of four limbs a head, it's quite more squwizzlying now. And if you are focus on something that is moving, always, then you're awarness of yourself also change, so you become other things, and you can be what you are projecting into.

Let's take Mudras: the only visual pattern you can feel. Changes the blood flow and so the mind. Literally: magic.

That is my experince, if you focus on your veins, it changes your body perception. Your body might feel like the size of a child, everything close, big, become colorful and vivid. Like that of a bird or a cat. And if you focus on certain part of your body it changes your mindstate in certain ways. What most likely happens from there, when in Hyperspace, in this Hypersynesthicalconsioucnesstriggermode, is that happens something that will never happens from language and comprehension ( those leads to techniques and tools ) is that the mind completely let go and let itself be, it being held. Hence: Behold.

It's the ultimate healing tool of some ills, it's tech beyond realms. Something like that.

I canno't begin to fathom how many people have felt "imaginary" pains, or insects running over them, that where just, well, the beaten roads of the pump'
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