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I Took 4.6g Syrian Rue a day for 40 days according to the Hadith Options
 
RhythmSpring
#1 Posted : 1/18/2020 6:16:27 PM

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Inspired by this passage about Syrian rue in the Hadith (a Mohammedian scripture) [elegantly explained by ouro here] and several compelling studies on the health benefits and antimicrobial powers of P. harmala, I embarked on a 40-day course of 4.6 grams of raw, ground Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) a day. I divided the 4.6g up into three doses, spaced throughout the day. The main goal was to rid my body of babesia, or otherwise cure me of rheumatoid arthritis. Side goals would include processing any psychospiritual material that came up.

For the first few days, I ingested the powder mixed in warm water or apple sauce. GAG. I also aimed to do this on an empty stomach. BARF.

Literally, I had to take a pot to barf in into my room, and there was a night where I was barfing all over the house like a sick dog. Thankfully, I learned that encapsulating the powder and swallowing the pills with meals would greatly reduce the nausea. Thanksgiving was coming up, and I had to not barf all over my relatives.

Several excerpts from my journal:

Dark images [at night, especially], creative violence, imagining worst (and best at other times) scenarios.

I ruminated a lot on the creation of the universe, trying to fathom how the universe was created from nothing, seemingly. After many arduous nights of contemplation and daydreams (some while driving), I eventually came to the conclusion that the universe was created by a God who was in essence, rhythm, and by extension, music. God is like a heart, but not even an object. He is the rhythm which pulses through all things. This is the only way that creation could be created and the only way that creation could continue to create beyond itself--by sustaining these messages by resonating with the original pulse. Indeed, a pulse, sped up enough, becomes perceived as a tone, hence music emanating from a single *KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK* from God from the inside of Nothingness, against the plane or veil that separates "It" from the rest of its creation.

I envisioned a multiverse--many bubbles of creation, many of which would not survive the test of time. Whew.

I slept and spent a LOT of time in bed. Probably 12-18 hours within any given day. This was my "in" time, my time in the cocoon, a time to do nothing and just perceive. Not unlike iboga.

Significant in regards to rheumatoid arthritis: 2 weeks into the adventure, I began walking a lot more than I had been able to. The inflammation in my historically "bad" ankle had gone down and I was able to go on ~30-minute walks, increasing in time and distance every day, which is something I hadn't been able to do in this way for something like 5 years. I was walking and going, "Holy FuckCrap" over and over again. This lasted a week, until some personal circumstances brought down my mood and I ended up "falling off the wagon" in some other areas of my life. My daily walking had ended, but I had seen the light of what was possible.

Another benefit was that my eating habits basically normalized. I was cooking and eating beautifully-composed meals, balanced, pleasing and healthful.

But perhaps the most valuable thing I have taken from the whole thing is, well, I'll read from my journal:

Quote:
One of the most noticeable effects of the Syrian Rue expedition--and it has lasted 2 weeks after its completion so far--is that I have become much more comfortable speaking my mind. At first in the 40 days, I became really quiet--absorbed in feeling, being, witnessing. Disarmed, floored (couched, bedded), wordless. I was made humbly aware of my needs, and then I slowly began to voice them with newfound certainty.

Being constantly Rue'd made me a bit helpless, and least at first, until I got my sea-legs.


You know how there are kind of two iterations of impetuses in response to words or action? Like, your knee-jerk or gut reaction to something, an instantaneous reaction. Then your filters and self-editing techniques kick in, and you compose a more ...composed response.

Syrian Rue was showing me how to embrace the first response, because I was more in touch with my emotions, how I *really* felt about things. Forget the secondary response. This effect has largely stayed with me 2 weeks so far after stopping the Syrian Rue. I now choose the first, not the second wave response, which is fettered with inhibition, self-doubt.

~

A few days into the 40 days, I began to get mild panic attacks, especially as the dose hit 1-2 hours after ingestion. I recognized, however, that these panic attacks stemmed directly from my docility, and that I could resolve the panic by moving into action toward the things that were stressing me out. Syrian Rue begged me to move into action towards the unresolved things in my life that I was stressing out about just underneath the surface of my now gently-unveiled subconscious.

As I moved into action, I saw many tracers, similar to the ones I saw on Iboga.

As I became more in touch with my emotions (mostly pain) I also became in touch with my desire to get better in a very real, immediate way. The motivation to do the things necessary to get better increased. This has been invaluable in my quest to heal from the complex disease known as chronic Lyme.

Although these and perhaps more benefits arose while I was taking the Syrian Rue, I cannot say with certainty that I could not have also gained these benefits on other substances, like mescaline-containing cacti, for example. I faced myself. Many of the things I describe sound like other substances. Indeed, I was nauseous for most of the time, so it wasn't perhaps the pleasantest route to dig deeper within myself. Then again, you get nauseous on cacti, too. And I wouldn't extract it.

One attractive feature of what I did was the clarity of having a set goal to achieve (the 4.6g/day for 40 days) and knowing that I would have some salubrious effect. So many studies point to P. harmala's medicinal powers, not to mention Mohammed agrees.

Now, I shudder at the thought of having to take Syrian Rue again. Please, no. No more. Ugh. Maybe next year. Maybe never. Anyway, time to move on to more pleasing, and probably more directly effective entheogens (in terms of reducing inflammation, uplifting mood, etc.).

No, I am not cured of my rheumatoid arthritis/Lyme disease/Babesia, but I feel a lot more empowered to do so.

Thanks for reading,
RS
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Grey Fox
#2 Posted : 1/18/2020 7:27:15 PM

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Such a great post RS! I'm going to read through this more closely when I get a chance. A lot of valuable insight in your post!
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
Jees
#3 Posted : 1/18/2020 10:12:20 PM

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Thank you for sharing your deep healing efforts RS Love

I felt addressed by the title because I just started a long term Syrian Rue period and I suppose I'm about 2 months in now. Taking daily 1 but mostly 2 capsules of ground seeds, each capsule just over 500mg. So my regime is much less heavy than yours but I feel able to continue with no adverse feelings whatsoever.

It's too soon for writing down an full analysis but the impact is not shallow, I do feel different as a human being, mostly more connected to a firm and safe baseline vibe. It took like 15 days to eliminate all of the nauseate traces, they were not strong with 1 gram but they were there. Now these have gone, as ShamensStamen wrote these are transient effects.

I haven't logged all things happening, so no record, I let things be even when I forget them. Throughout I feel deeper breathing and a stronger pulse and better depths in the sleep phases.

I can't imagine what it is to take 4+ grams a day. The 1gr let me perform all daily jobs with a margin. I don't know if and when I'm gonna up that dose, intuition will guide me, I took only one capsule for several days then 2 capsules a day, sometimes spread sometimes together. It will prolly be 3 x 500mg capsule spread over the day, for starters. We'll see.

I find it a fascinating and enriching practise, it feels as if I'm living more to potential.
Rue rules Cool

PS: started with regular capsules (AA) but they tend to stick a bit in the down track, now I have vegetarian capsules which glide way more smoothly down.
 
jungleheart
#4 Posted : 1/18/2020 11:35:14 PM

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Cool, thanks for posting. Sorry to hear it didn't much help your arthritis. I know that's something I'll have to deal with eventually. I remember it only took 2-3g ground and boiled for me to trip for hours. It's also really rough on the stomach. But perhaps microdosing is worth exploring for me, as I am not in the set or setting to do big trips right now.

Were your eyes dilated during this time? Cacti definitely dilates my eyes, so tougher to get away with microdosing.
 
RhythmSpring
#5 Posted : 1/19/2020 12:07:04 AM

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jungleheart wrote:
Were your eyes dilated during this time?

Just a little bit.
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
SinysterKyd
#6 Posted : 1/19/2020 4:04:42 AM

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is there some benefit from the seed beyond the harmalas? Seems like a recipe for puking to eat those every day, when the harmalas can be easily extracted and dosed accordingly.......
At the center of this existence, it is everything and nothing, all of us and each of us and none of us. My light is now lit, and it cannot be extinguished.
 
RhythmSpring
#7 Posted : 1/19/2020 4:10:28 AM

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SinysterKyd wrote:
is there some benefit from the seed beyond the harmalas? Seems like a recipe for puking to eat those every day, when the harmalas can be easily extracted and dosed accordingly.......


Call it an intuitive decision to eat the whole herb rather than extract it. Plants tend to have chemicals that balance each other out, and we are not aware of many of them.

Also, P. Harmala seems to have some alkaloids that may not come from an extraction.



And finally, I don't have the time/energy/wherewithal/spoons/materials to make an extract.
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
SinysterKyd
#8 Posted : 1/19/2020 4:25:50 AM

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Interesting, thanks for sharing that-

You can buy the full spectrum extract online as well rather than extracting.
At the center of this existence, it is everything and nothing, all of us and each of us and none of us. My light is now lit, and it cannot be extinguished.
 
Jees
#9 Posted : 1/19/2020 11:10:13 AM

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SinysterKyd wrote:
...is there some benefit from the seed beyond the harmalas? Seems like a recipe for puking to eat those every day, when the harmalas can be easily extracted and dosed accordingly...

You can buy the full spectrum extract online as well rather than extracting.
I've plenty rue, powdered and whole seeds and extracts, unseparated and separated alkaloids and THH. I chose for grind seeds for very same reason RS did, it has the fullest envelope of constituents possible. It is clear to me that X grams of ground seeds takes it further and longer in duration than say a 10% weighted extract of X gram. There's definitely more 'punch' with all elements inside. IIRC ShamensStamen roasted his seeds before grinding for better digesting, my seeds were already grind non roasted.

If you want to avoid nausea just take on microdosing lightly and build up from there. If we believe ShamansStamen one becomes nausea free even on huge doses.

Tip my hat to RS for jumping in more hardcore, must have been a ride.
 
ShamensStamen
#10 Posted : 1/19/2020 2:08:07 PM
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Yeah roasting the whole seeds prior to grinding seems to help me with the stomach/gut discomfort, may not hold back on the vomiting but it does help with the nausea and stomach discomfort for the most part, at least with Rue on it's own, definitely feels a bit different compared to ingesting the raw seed.

And yes, in all my experience consuming Rue seed, and Rue/Harmala extract, after a bit of consumption, say a couple weeks or so, the reverse tolerance builds up which not only means things get stronger bit by bit, but the side-effects associated with Rue/Harmalas in general, seem to go away, so no more nausea or vomiting and significantly reduced body load, reduced motor impairment, can handle heavier dosages with ease and comfort. Building up the reverse tolerance for me was the way to go for being able to handle heavy dosages without all the discomfort. Just remember that when using lower dosages, it takes a bit longer to build up the reverse tolerance compared to higher dosages which build up the reverse tolerance more quickly.
 
PleasureAndBliss
#11 Posted : 1/19/2020 4:54:13 PM
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That's really interesting for sure.

I'm there to report huge benefits from harmala extracts (caapi and rue) on exhaustion. I have poor quality sleep and not restorative, mainly caused by chronic stress I suppose. I found recently that harmalas kill my brain frog and depressive feelings from exhaustion. That's fucking huge for me right now. I can sleep bad, wake up feeling like shit, then be 90% cured by a low to moderate dose of harmala. It's like I can learn stuff easily (i'm in a PhD) in spite of being sleep deprived. Such a treasure...

Do somebody know this book about harmalas ? "Harmal: The Genus Peganum" It's extremely costly so if somebody has a pdf of it it would be gold !

How and thanks for the idea about just eating grinded rue seeds. Will try it soon to see the differences from a manske extract. Smile

Edit : The book https://b-ok.cc/book/3396960/26c94b
 
Quetzal7
#12 Posted : 1/20/2020 9:34:15 AM

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Thanks so much for these reports and info !
 
Triglav
#13 Posted : 1/21/2020 3:22:16 PM

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Thank you for the report!

I agree that full seed is preferred to extracted harmala alkaloids for the healing benefits one may be looking for. I observed that easily when trying both. Full seed for me was much more psychedelic, moving much deeper.

Also one thing I observed regarding taking different medicines is that finding the correct dose if of utmost importance. There is tendency to dose too high even with medicines that have more 'subtle' effect.

I think your daily dose was just too high, my friend.
 
RhythmSpring
#14 Posted : 1/21/2020 7:16:29 PM

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Triglav wrote:
I think your daily dose was just too high, my friend.


I think you're right, my friend. It definitely felt like way too much most days. But I also wanted to do the Hadith thing and push myself, as I was feeling pretty desperate for an answer--still searching for the right thing to make me healthy.

Though it was too much for my body to really process, there was satisfaction in going by the book, accomplishing the difficult task of putting that much gross stuff in my body (as weird as it sounds), and from being overwhelmed.

I'm okay now. It's weird how often people feel they're doing something "toxic" to their body when they take too much Syrian rue, but then when it's all over, they're fine.

There are reports of toxicity/death, though, but that's of people taking like 50g in a day.
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
Triglav
#15 Posted : 1/23/2020 2:18:27 PM

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Quote:
But I also wanted to do the Hadith thing and push myself, as I was feeling pretty desperate for an answer--still searching for the right thing to make me healthy.

Though it was too much for my body to really process, there was satisfaction in going by the book, accomplishing the difficult task of putting that much gross stuff in my body (as weird as it sounds), and from being overwhelmed.


I see and respect where you're coming from. I wish for you to achieve a state of health you're seeking, whichever way may that be.
 
blue.magic
#16 Posted : 2/5/2020 4:16:22 AM

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RhythmSpring wrote:
Call it an intuitive decision to eat the whole herb rather than extract it. Plants tend to have chemicals that balance each other out, and we are not aware of many of them.


Although this is true for certain plants like cannabis, this is not true for all plants. There is no chemical in rue that counterbalances MAOIs.

Beware of the Naturalistic Fallacy.


RhythmSpring wrote:
And finally, I don't have the time/energy/wherewithal/spoons/materials to make an extract.


Simply boiling the seeds with vinegar water, then straining and decanting the cold water will get rid of the potentially harmful quinazoline alkaloids (vasicine, vasisinon) since these are poorly soluble in cold water.

Dilute the decoction for easy dosing, store in fridge (acetic acid from vinegar is a preservative).
 
ShamensStamen
#17 Posted : 2/5/2020 4:44:37 AM
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I think what RhythmSpring was referring to was the synergy between all the different compounds in the full spectrum plant, compared to extracts. I myself have noticed this, the full spectrum plant is better, i mean extracts can be good too, but things overall feel better with the whole plant. Lemon EO vs isolated terpenes for example, or pure Harmine/Harmaline vs Rue seed, etc, sure isolated compounds are useful, but other compounds present in the full spectrum version seems to balance things out and overall seems to work better, even potentiating things in terms of dosage since they're working together compared to the dosages of isolated compounds.

Also those quinazoline compounds have benefits and aren't particularly harmful, it is recommend that pregnant women not consume them due to the potential risk of abortion but other than that they're actually quite beneficial and are quite the bronchodilators making it easier to breathe and to breathe more fully, also helps to expel phlegm, ime.

I take the Rue seed powder in capsules, i used to use raw seed powder, now i tend to roast the whole seeds prior to grinding them, i feel it makes the seed powder a bit more tolerable. I've never consumed Rue in tea form, ewww lol, i tried once, but hell to the naw lol. I've also used full spectrum Rue freebased extract encapsulated, as well as purified Harmala (Harmine/Harmaline) freebased extract encapsulated, and overall i prefer the actual Rue seed powder, my second choice would be the full spectrum freebased extract, and i don't much care for isolated Harmine/Harmaline extract even though it feels much lighter/cleaner compared to the Rue seed, and the full spectrum feels lighter/cleaner than the Rue seed but not as light/clean as the purified Harmalas, but the extracts just miss out on the other goodies found in Rue, so i prefer the actual plant, though with that said, there's room for extracts too, i like freebased extracts so i can smoke them or consume them orally.
 
 
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