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Depression - Strategies and how to use tools at hand? Options
 
burnt
#21 Posted : 11/2/2019 10:07:21 PM

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I think cognitive behavioral therapy is best solution to depression and or anxiety in the long term though. Its evidence based. Although it takes time and effort it seems possible to rewire your brain this way. Although without proper management you can easily go slip back into old negative thought patterns especially in stressful times.

Tony I hope you can find some help! Sounds like a rough situation.
 

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Tony6Strings
#22 Posted : 11/5/2019 5:55:15 AM

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Hi everyone thanks so much for your well wishes. After some clearing of the mind... I love my life, and I will never check out early. Was told not to once during a dmt breakthrough. Said that it was never anyone's place to prematurely end life, to ride the ride the whole way. Tonight I feel great. Spent two days in jail, got sick from two days no methadone, lost my job, life is falling apart. Spent the last three nights outside, twice under an awesome maple, once at Our old camp behind the clinic (there's no camp there anymore just TONY AND SARAH FOREVER carved into a tree). Tonight I am with her in our bed. Have stayed clean since getting out of jail, just methadone and pot. Ok that's not entirely true I ate a benzo today with Her, but it was one of the very last (I was busted with 100 of them in my pocket, She had a few stashed away), starting tomorrow we're both done. Was gifted a psychedelic painted acoustic that would not stay in tune, even after new strings. Was inspired to paint my own acoustic, started tonight a little bit. I suck at visual art but I'm excited about it. And you guys would smile at what's in my corningware in the freezer. I love this place I love you people thanks so much for teaching me the coolest stuff I know and for being the coolest goddamn people in the world. Sorry for hijacking this thread with my craziness, and to hopefully finally contribute something of value to the thread, here's what I learned: chemical abuse/dependency is a very poor tool for dealing with depression. It just makes it worse. Thanks again everyone. Love.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
AikyO
#23 Posted : 11/5/2019 10:12:03 AM

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Depression, the long lasting friend making roads of concrete sorrow that never ends. It's important to understand the relationship to the environment and what is systemic in how it shapes our seeing of reality to hijack and reverse engineer the process. Our disconnection from the body has lead to huge misunderstanding of how perception works and what is healthy. As we live in a system that ever tries to have us do less even for vital function, the problematic is postural.

Depression will have a cause, an ensemble if it's deep within you and recurrent, and then a structural layer of how it shapes your perception from there. We have such an ability to see outside of ourselves, beyond ourselves, that it came with the ability to shut off from the world. Depression more than anything is that cell, that winter shell, the box where time shall stops and light live on. Depression is birth and its denial.

The mind is a visual artifact. At the moment of our coming into this world, a womb is pierced ans so are eyes. Water flow and lights come in. The breath is felt. As such, any experience of reality that enhances sight greatly will lead to feelings of rebirth, awarness of breath, whereas any experience that sees a diminish of sight will invoke feelings of the womb, of a memory long gone where we were alone in this world.

Memories are by essence simple, they are a simplification of a situation. Similarly, the world we have created is a simplification of nature. By transforming the stone, we have made it poor, one sided. In this carved stone, beautifully shaped as a vision of man's imagination, we have reduced the ability of sight. People nowadays say beautiful when looking at nature but their sesnes are not sharp. From living mostly in interior to books, and our deafening written language, we have created a world of poor sight. Instead of having to look by yourself, the work is done for you. Like the stone, the image has been put before your eyes, without the need for you to generate it, to create with your own consciousness. Consciousness does not create and feels like dead. Creates a world of death, of memory. Always living more and more in memory. They will sell you simple things, make it easy for you. You won't have to stand, you have to walk, you won't have to grow. They will grow for you. Infinite growth given outside of you, that is the lie. Much effort for nothing and a denial of our bodies. Will naturally lead to tiring complexification and more boxes. Infantilisation and fear of death, light in the darks and too much warmth in the winter.

Now that we have established the terms of the system, we have to counter it. We have to train and be strong again. This happens through the mind and through the body. Mostly through sight thereof, as it takes such an important place in the balance of our senses and our interaction with the world.

Depression will present one with a wall of thought, incapable to escape from. This state might not be avoidable but it can be learned from so that one goes through it better. It is needed to return to a most basic language.

The basic language of sight is that of dots and lines. Everything is a constellation. Everything is a connection between two dots forming a line. Ever more. There will be layers to this:

- Pattern Regonition. To recognize patterns is to always be in movement, so to grow. The effort that can be accomplished any time is the best effort, the most natural and simple. It is experiencing space and one's own point of view. ot be aware about lines is to be aware about direction and movement. The more it is observed, the more everything you see feels like a variation of a known pattern, everything feels order, everything feels healthy.

- Counting. To count is to be aware of ground layer of perceptual field. If everything is seen with movement and numeraly, everything is like music. Music is a universale langage that offers variety of points of view, ever evolving pattern of ephemeral nature.

- Base projection. Once you are more aware about dots and lines, the more your peripheral view is regained, the more things take a lively aspect and form characters. Base projection is those characters. It is the best projection because it looks the most like your body. It is gymnastic for the mind, even if the body is still.

That is for regaining sight. The best place for this is nature obsviously, but it works mostly everywhere. As it goes with careful observation, it improves focus and to not be obsessed with a point. It is easy from there to make new exercices or to find nuances.

Note that above exercice can also help understand one's own mind and the form within them, how it relates to the world. The langages of lines is that of the body, arms and legs, and every direction represent an emotion, any combination of two lines does - the more the merrier and then stories emerges.

Another side of this exercices will relate to a more emotional ability that is well lossed to depression is that of human empathy. When you see somone doing a movement, you should see yourself doing it. You can also feel the part of oyour body when looking to that part in someone elses - looking at a left hand, feeling my left hand - this helps with symmetry and reversing it. Gymnastic again.

To train the body then is very necessary also, everybody should find something for them, from running to strenghtening exercices to martial arts. What happens naturally if you are to learn is precisly that you should see yourself do the movement in others. If someone explains to you, you do less effort that you could have done yourself. Observing bodies is extremely natural yet feels very foreign to lots of us.

If you are always in pattern recognition and movement recognition, you are always doing memory works. To see an elephant in a tree is both a philosophical exercices, a youthfull play ground and a great way to remember that tree. If you are used to see dots and lines and movements in still things, it becomes easier to be aware of moving movement, to recgonize the forms birds take when flying, or simply an suite of gesture someone does, his or her movement in a room.

If this is applied well, looking at something as simple as a torn tissue will be of the most interest, as it withold such immense movement. Those are the most complex, and then you seek complexity as it makes your mind grow, there is room for it to flow. Simple forms will disminish it and in the long term create a fear of change and life, among other absurdities. The most simple art is the most qualitative in terms of sensory output. If I take a couple of leaf, torn them to shread and throw them on the floor, I have without a doubt rivalled the Chapelle Sixtine. Really no efforts need being done. Then onto the breath ...

All and all it's always about the body. If you put your attention outward, in objects, it may works, but will always work less than within the body. If you give your emotions a body, a visual layer, they will be more understable. It's nice to let thoughts be funky somtimes and jump in their nothingness.

To be aware of this body level is really appliable everywhere, even in films, even in comics and video games and subways and other mothers of invention. But as depression still holds to a systeming layer and because envrionnement that are built on this logic, in this direction, will enhance that aspect of our experiences, some habits will optimize recovery. Erything that stands for you should be reduced, working one's back and balance is very important, it directly relates to breath and finding that relaxing middle. Warm baths should reduced, aren't they such a weird memory. On the other side, cold shower are very invigorating and deepen the breath. Everything involving food should be of real concern too. Too much light at nights should be reduced as it will make the mind go awire and fed up. The only light in the night should be that of the mind. Holding light, holding the night, that's nothing you can grasp. Walking a lot and feeling those hands empty is also a must. Singing can also shed some rain on a lasting feeling of loneliness and it also deepen the breath. Make it come out unseen and die all so sudenly.

If you are strong, you can go through the winters. Likely, if you have gone past depression, you can go past the winter of man that is our age. Every movement is welcomed and seen through. Sensitivity is a strenght. Being relaxed in the sun is easy, but in the cold ... well it's even easier actually !

I have also found tea to be the most precious ally. It's subtle effect is very grounding and optimize clear focus. Its preparation and consumtion will please all senses. Any good green tea just tears my face with a radiant smile of joy. It's a plant after all.
The world moves for love, it kneels in awe before it

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null24
#24 Posted : 11/5/2019 2:30:40 PM

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Hang in there Tony, I wish nobody had to deal with what you dealing with. I'm not going to try to "should all over you", you know what's up. Just wishing peace and clarity of thought to you, and also for you to be good to you.

burnt suggested CBT, which I found, along with it's cousin DBT ( DIALECTIC behavior therapy) to be an incredibly useful tool in early recovery. It really did help me get past that place where I was unable to look anyone in the eye and couldn't complete a statement without breaking down in tears.

There is tons of help out there. Peace.Love
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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dragonrider
#25 Posted : 11/5/2019 5:36:01 PM

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I think with psychiatric illnesses, wich depression is, it is important to realise that each person is unique and therefore, unfortunately, each depression is unique as well. There is no silver bullet that works for each and every case.

But with all the tools available these days, it is important not to give up and lose hope if one method didn't work.
For the vast majority of cases, eventually something will be found that does work. It is just a matter of finding the right way out. The way that works for you.
 
Eaglepath
#26 Posted : 11/5/2019 5:52:22 PM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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I went through many years of depression and anxiety, suicidal thoughts daily and just pure terror day by day.
I ended up trying to kill myself with Ayahuasca and Changa. I took extreme dosages and at extreme frequencies.
I also meditated every day from morning to night (fighting as a viking trying to hold on to clarity beyond thoughts).

After a while I blow my mind into pieces.. Nothing was left and that lasted for days.. That was terrifying at a beginning (the emptyness and disconnectedness) but after a while when it stabilized and sort of balanced together with normal life and A LOT of meditation I sort of managed to shift the normal mind thinking mode into always being "the witness" and the whole life changed and I havent looked back since....

After this period a lot of spiritual teachings started to make sense and especially Vedanta, The Gita etc helped me to understand what was happening to me.

I am now working with a lot of people with and without medicines.. What I have learned is that everyone in the end is the same... it doesnt really matter which kind of traumas or similar you have.. It all comes down to the mind in the end, its just different "colors" "clothes".

When someone is taken beyond their mind and back with the chance to study the destruction and construction of the mind/ego they usually never becomes the same again. The mind looses its power. The most potent tool for this in my experience has been Bufo. Enough said!

And that followed by daily strict routines of meditation and Yoga.

Then we have the medicinal problem with depression and thats another question when we are talking aboåut low serotonin levels etc etc.. There Ayahuasca seems to play a big role due to recent studies of promoting higher levels of Serotonin uptake, creating new connections. new brain cells etc etc..

If you listen to anyone who is depressed its just a lot of mind! Mind mind mind mind.. Thinking thinking thinking And me me me me.. If you break this.. you break the problem!
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
AikyO
#27 Posted : 11/6/2019 12:02:30 PM

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Eaglepath wrote:
If you listen to anyone who is depressed its just a lot of mind! Mind mind mind mind.. Thinking thinking thinking And me me me me.. If you break this.. you break the problem!


Well you don't break it ...

In our age I feel it's apparent we are very afraid of dying and very much try to leave a trace on the world. Evolution now happens beyond the body and therefore that makes a lot of effort - the end result of this transhumanist thought naturally being to create a body, the first body that was created by a greater entity (..., don't work on sundaes, you get the picky). Everywhere in the world looks like Man seeking attention, making big loud cries. Thoughts were too loud, too concrete, too fast, so that's the world we shape.

Oh how fearful it is that our mind is so ungraspable and subtle, isn't that the root of our doubt in existing ? Now, we do need to assert thee are existing so please shout really loud and make up big things. Dream big. Make it concrete. Assert your existence !

Yet there are layers to the mind. Language is something that is extremely cultural and human. If you were naked, it would be the only thing "human", that you have learned, that you can carry with you all the time - this little box of thoughts. This association of ideas to sound creates a definition so we grasp onto them like rocks and end up deep in the puddle. Their are a simplification of the world we use to communicate with each other, but they are so little compared to vision unbound and an atom to the mountain that are the senses. We want language to survive us because we have identified too much with it and then end up with the written form. A book is a world that only man can understand, it's loneliness. A computer is a book that has "grown up", and does not need the petty sun or night and day telling him the what not of the hour.

When people are depressed and faced with this wall of thought, they are in language too much, in the definition too much, so they stop seeing the diversity and the ever renewing fervor of the world and of their own eyes. They lost the child spontaneity and funky vibe. They have a blindfold within and think putting it out will solve the problem but it just takes the problem elsewhere and makes some more (that's really what "reincarnating" means to me). What is needed for those people is to have their mind fit the body like a glove. Stop being in the abstract and back to the ground, back to what has been called "spirit" - and it has become such a big pool of noodle nobody seem to get what spirit is what it isn't. When people speak of what is inside them they say "the brain", something physical but that they cannot feel, some word from the medical field that gives seriousness and a visible aspect, graspable aspect to something they experience at each moment of their life, their own mind. But most won't call it that. They observe it from without so of course it doesn't work. It doesn't work because it's a lack of confidence in one self (and unnecessary effort), in one's body. Instead of trusting the body and its fruits, they create exterior things to help them. We have been wrong so to never be wrong again we are not trusting our very essence anymore. Our bodies and root mind. And since the body is nature ..., well nature out the window.

People have their view go poor and poor by the day when it should be the opposite. We loose the ability to look at things closely and make up a magnifying glass. So someone else does it for you. Isn't that all slavery with extra step, the myth of dependency ? "I always need someone to carry me and do it for me". But machines they don't cry or tear up, the energy used to fuel them is unseen and from so far away places. "Oh, I have created a box here it is always warm and there's no night or days really, there's always food and warm baths". Isn't that literally "female object" ? Isn't it inescapable that by creating object we exterioreyes things of the body and hurt it in the process, diminish it ? Isn't the body where the child is born female ? Isn't the intelligence he later see grows more visual and masculine ? So what is that world of electricity keeping the shadows out, of knowledge of everything made and trying to kill its body and give birth to its intelligence in some grandiose clothing unborn, made by hands and graspable ?

"Birth was so painful. Every time I'm going into the world I hurt myself. I'm better off in the shell of thoughts and the memories. I have made them so real and in turn, they made me a real boy"

It all happens within the breath.
The world moves for love, it kneels in awe before it

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FranLover
#28 Posted : 11/7/2019 5:44:48 AM

Long live the world in peace, prosperity, and freedom from suffering


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Wow Akiyo, how touching and how true. It reminds one that what one intelectually knows one actually doesnt know unless one lives it, unless one carries out correct view; stopping bad thoughts as they arise and giving way to new good thoughts. Stoping bad habits and giving rise to new good habits, etc. These words dont express the truth though. The truth is this knowledge and action (or inaction) is essential for what we call spiritual growth.

And what one knows one must constantly remind oneself. What you said Akiyo about us wanting to leave a footprint is very true. Its roots lie in needing psychological validation and wanting to be admired, or for oneself to admire the self, to say "I am sucsesful, safe and secure." But its insidious in nature how we seek validation. There must be constant awareness! Constantly one must live out the truth that these games are folly.

The essence of anymosity is the most beautiful thing one has ever experienced. A hero stands alone. This is not a psychological carring out of the Hero archetype, which would be thought based, but a factual truth that sees that the person who has looked into and accepted total lonliness as a fact, and sees the beauty of having no owner, no one above, no one below, has great freedom. But for this the ultimate owner must let go first. That is our own minds. There must be freedom from thought and from the known. That is the only way to go into the unkown, to let the heart become the hero of the universe in peace and harmony
Cura cura cuerpecito/Cura cura almacita/Ayahuasca medicina/eres muy sagrada/ tienes el poder de sanar nuestra gente/Chacrunita medicina...wachumita medicina...Nakaykuna medicina...
The joy that arises when — experiencing the inconstancy of those very forms, their change, fading, & cessation — one sees with right discernment as it actually is that all forms, past or present, are inconstant, stressful, subject to change: That is called renunciation joy. (Similarly with sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, & ideas.)
If its root remains undamaged & strong, a tree, even if cut, will grow back. So too if latent craving is not rooted out, this suffering returns again & again.
See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
 
AikyO
#29 Posted : 11/11/2019 11:33:25 AM

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Ha, thanks. I'm indeed very keen on this matter of experiencing coming first. What we may call spirituality is nothing else than a very subtle function of the body, so we humans have this great subtlety but we can also shut ourselves out of it. To lie down in it and let it carry you, it demands great relaxation. More than good thoughts or bad thoughts, it is more the relaxed state that seems important to me. It is like a place and tension carries you away of it. If you can be in this place, keep at it, bad thoughts can arise but not weight you down, good thoughts might not lift you up, they might go their separate ways and vanish within the void they've not left. That must be the heart hero ...

About validation, I don't think we can escape it, there will always be something we strive to be in some sense and ancestry is something very important. If it is not lost, it might go beyond man to the natural world embodied within, that we are personified. Can we place ourselves within what is, in ourselves, greater than ourselves ? Maybe having control over oneself, one's mind and how it interacts with they body, it means precisely this, that it's a goal you cannot achieve if you cannot go within it. In the same sense, thoughts are not unnatural but they carry great potential to cut you off nature as they can become a shell. Technology is the same. Yet since it is not personified, people might seem less able to identify some things about it, when it is still very much built on idealistic figures, archetypes, all of that. Thinking with images and symbols is more intuitive and yield truths but few people seem to do like this still. We don't trust it because we didn't make it, maybe. This freedom from the known is very insidious nowadays. If long ago we were to see everything perfectly ordered, to feel this order, it is then natural we created ordered things. Yet it was a less of a great order, it was only made from our hands, and maybe then, looking more and more into this tinier order, that of the things we made, we lost the ability to see the greater order, that is everywhere, so vast yet so simple, so known because it simply is us. It was a long sweep and we've segmented it, rearranged it, cut down the frames, jumped in time. So we make everything known, we shed a light on it all with knowledge experiential, linguistical, but does it feel known ? Has this knowledge root deep within you and your perceptions ? Are people strong out of it ? Does it promote sensitivity ? Isn't sensitivity something we've quite lost, somehow we kept out of touch but isn't it what drives life on this Earth ? Isn't it the jeweled crown ?

Ho, the breath is as a forgotten tongue, that of serpents and dragons, makes you ever more sensible, ever more aware, of what flows and goes, to guide us long lasting, ever burning, an endless feast, right under our noses.
The world moves for love, it kneels in awe before it

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jungleheart
#30 Posted : 1/12/2020 9:21:02 PM

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Have been very depressed for a while and am actually in the process of planning my departure from this earth. I returned to this forum after four years to at least have some company but possibly to be reminded of reasons to live.

At first psychedelics taught me that capitalism was toxic, but I actually think society and humanity are inherently toxic. What is natural is fighting for power, exploiting resources (including labor), defending your tribe over the greater good, and other barbaric things like these. The fleeting moments of happiness exist to help us propagate the species. I believe people delude themselves into believing their lives are good and things are getting better. It is easier to burn down a house than to build it, but people will always burn down houses as a means of getting power. Suffering is the default state, even if things go well, all that exists will decay and suffering will come around again. Entropy is the natural state of the world. I sadly am convinced hope is a delusion.

Unfortunately these are core beliefs that are difficult to turn around and want to live again.

I don't have great genes, I've had health problems - physical and mental. I'm pretty bright, but more on the verbal side rather than technical which would help me get a good job. I haven't had a lot of joy from which to build a positive foundation. I have a lot of PTSD and many, many years that were complete write offs due to suffering from illness or toxic relationships.

I'm looking at Nembutal as a way to go, and after navigating the pscyhedelic world it's pretty easy for me to figure out what to do. I wish I had more to look forward to, but if the future is anything like the last 30 years of my life I would rather not. I actually can't trip anymore because I broke something in my brain and I had a psychotic episode for a year so substances just trigger a break now. I have spent a month in a psych ward and let go from my job this year due to needing to take time off to recover - which was a human rights violation - but I decided not to pursue it.

Hope this forum can handle holding my hand a little bit while I figure out what the fuck to do or make the leap to the other side (something I've practiced many times).
 
Tony6Strings
#31 Posted : 1/12/2020 9:45:33 PM

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Jungleheart I am sorry to hear you are going through this. Hang on, hang tough, it will get better. Feel free to PM me if you need somebody to talk to.

olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
iracema
#32 Posted : 1/12/2020 11:04:21 PM

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Thank you for this topic.
 
null24
#33 Posted : 1/13/2020 8:39:16 PM

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Like all suicidal thinking, your logic is flawed, jungle heart. Check in with us, please, if the mods are allowing you access.

I'll tell you this much, I'm very glad my suicide did not succeed, and I've never heard a survivor tell me otherwise. We all want to live, just none of us want to do it in pain.

No, you will never apprehend a state of complete and total, permanent happiness. My motto is "nothing is impossible" but that, I fear, is the exception that proves the rule. I think that happiness is a false pursuit that leads many if us down a road if real suffering. Having consciousness means having feeling. Enjoying some transient state of wellbeing is the best you can wish for. Eat a good meal.

Life is hard. We all have needs we can, and cannot meet. It is terribly difficult to have a modicum of peace if your needs are not being meet, and it sounds like you have vacancies where there should be some fulfillment.

You are correct, hope, like faith is not real, action is. Maybe you just need some successes. Call brushing your teeth a goal, and when you do it, you may gain some sense if accomplishment. Set tiny goals, experience success, move forward. For me it went from brushing my teeth, to making appointments, taking my meds, making small accomplishments towards the goal of long term betterment rather than instant gratification if changing the way I feel in the moment and eventually those successes started getting bigger and bigger as the goals became larger and more complex. But I didn't set them to high, at first, it was brushing my f***ing teeth and taking showers.

We are real people and are a community here, you have this support.

See a doctor if you are still contemplating suicide. Show your strength and live.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
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dragonrider
#34 Posted : 1/13/2020 9:47:43 PM

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jungleheart wrote:
Have been very depressed for a while and am actually in the process of planning my departure from this earth. I returned to this forum after four years to at least have some company but possibly to be reminded of reasons to live.

At first psychedelics taught me that capitalism was toxic, but I actually think society and humanity are inherently toxic. What is natural is fighting for power, exploiting resources (including labor), defending your tribe over the greater good, and other barbaric things like these. The fleeting moments of happiness exist to help us propagate the species. I believe people delude themselves into believing their lives are good and things are getting better. It is easier to burn down a house than to build it, but people will always burn down houses as a means of getting power. Suffering is the default state, even if things go well, all that exists will decay and suffering will come around again. Entropy is the natural state of the world. I sadly am convinced hope is a delusion.

Unfortunately these are core beliefs that are difficult to turn around and want to live again.

I don't have great genes, I've had health problems - physical and mental. I'm pretty bright, but more on the verbal side rather than technical which would help me get a good job. I haven't had a lot of joy from which to build a positive foundation. I have a lot of PTSD and many, many years that were complete write offs due to suffering from illness or toxic relationships.

I'm looking at Nembutal as a way to go, and after navigating the pscyhedelic world it's pretty easy for me to figure out what to do. I wish I had more to look forward to, but if the future is anything like the last 30 years of my life I would rather not. I actually can't trip anymore because I broke something in my brain and I had a psychotic episode for a year so substances just trigger a break now. I have spent a month in a psych ward and let go from my job this year due to needing to take time off to recover - which was a human rights violation - but I decided not to pursue it.

Hope this forum can handle holding my hand a little bit while I figure out what the fuck to do or make the leap to the other side (something I've practiced many times).

I don't think suffering is the default state. We are just more sensitive to signals of suffering, because it is alarming to us.

Life is beautiful, but it sure is brutal.

It is very likely that you have not explored every other option yet.

I very strongly believe that you cannot kill yourself and be in peace with that decission, as long as there are still some alternative ways you haven't explored yet.

There are plenty of people who have once contemplated killing themselves, but managed to find another way out of the darkness. It IS possible to get better.
It IS possible to find a way. To experience the beauty of it all. To enjoy life.

I think null is right. I don't know he is for sure, because i don't know you or the situation you're in. But i'm 99.9% sure that he is.
Life is almost never as bad and hopeless as it seems from your point of view when you're realy very severely depressed.
And most depressions can eventually be cured. Even the very severe ones.





 
Bill Cipher
#35 Posted : 1/15/2020 7:49:37 PM
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jungleheart,

I think that most people have had this impulse at one time or another. I know I have. But suicide leaves a legacy of pain in its wake that those who love you will be forever saddled with.

I don't necessarily disagree with your thoughts on people in general, but life contains an immense amount of beauty as well. I hope that you find some, and that it sustains you and gives you a reason to live.
 
Bill Cipher
#36 Posted : 1/17/2020 3:39:28 AM
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jungleheart wrote:
The hard part is accepting that when you're really in the depths of hurt - that this is something you have to go through. But there is no other option. I believe there is nothing that the human soul can't be wiped clean from. You have to process it all to the very depths, that is the only way. Maybe you will get in touch with depths of yourself you hadn't before.


You wrote that in response to someone who was going through what you are now. You wrote it, I believe, because that's who you are - kind, empathetic and eloquent - and you simply being you is proof that not all is toxic.

I just hope you can be kind enough to yourself to take it to heart. This would be a less interesting world without you, jungleheart. I would hate to see you go. Truly.
 
endlessness
#37 Posted : 1/17/2020 12:00:44 PM

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dragonrider wrote:


I very strongly believe that you cannot kill yourself and be in peace with that decission, as long as there are still some alternative ways you haven't explored yet.

There are plenty of people who have once contemplated killing themselves, but managed to find another way out of the darkness. It IS possible to get better.
It IS possible to find a way. To experience the beauty of it all. To enjoy life



I agree.

This reminds me of a story from Mulla Nasreddin, a famous sage who enlightened people through satire/comedy/acting jester-y. There are many anecdotes about him, and one of them goes about How Mulla lost his camel, and he asked people to help him find it.

So everybody in the town was looking for his camel, people were really emotionally involved trying to search for the animal.

After a good while of the collective search, one of the neighbours saw a very calm and relaxed Mulla and asked: "But how can you be so calm if you have lost your camel, we are all worried about him and you're like this?"

So Mulla answered: "See that hill over there? We still haven't looked behind it. If we look over there, and still don't find my camel, then I'll start getting worried".

While there are alternatives, there is hope.

Back to the original subject. It is true that there are a lot of negative things in the world, but there are also a lot of positive things. The media disproportionately shows the negative aspects, and social media follows suit, which tricks our mind into thinking this is representative of humanity. Of course it ends up affecting the faith people have in humanity, and even more so if you have specially bad experiences lately.

Maybe in this moment there is a lot of negativity where you are, or in the circles you are in, or being shown disproportionately in the stimulus you receive.

Death is a certainty, there's no going around that, so why not try everything, before deciding if it's not worth it? If I was in a really bad place, I'd consider every alternative... live in a community, go to some wwoof type of farm or volunteer in some other interesting project, move to a distant country, hitchhike to a random place and see what happens, find one of those opportunities to travel on a boat in return for working as part of the crew, start some completely new hobby where I interact with different people, any and all of the above or whatever other idea one can think of.

There are so many experiences to be had, and experiences that can completely change your outlook on life.

Hang in there JH. Try to build as healthy base as possible to withstand the hardship, and try different experiences. Please also dont be affraid to ask for help, you can pm me or im sure any member here, you can call speciallized numbers or see profesionals or just talk to a family member or friend.

Be well

 
tatt
#38 Posted : 1/17/2020 2:20:52 PM
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endlessness wrote:

It is true that there are a lot of negative things in the world, but there are also a lot of positive things. The media disproportionately shows the negative aspects, and social media follows suit, which tricks our mind into thinking this is representative of humanity. Of course it ends up affecting the faith people have in humanity, and even more so if you have specially bad experiences lately.


Well said. I'll add to this.

All forms of media, alternative [which we often deem as a better route], mainstream, and otherwise - they're all leaning in some direction or another - and to some degree from that obfuscating the actuality of many situations, especially in their entireties.

This is not to say that there isn't bad in the world, or to blindly look away from it all, but to understand that the miniscule amount of information that we're able to take in from the totality of all avenues electronic - it's such an incredibly small view into the greater picture/s of many of the worlds issues and doings. And oftentimes, like endlessness said, these things can be severely and grossly distorted - all for your views, your clicks, your traffic, all for your attention.

And of course there's truth to many of these media outlets, sometimes biting very close to things - but I think it's good practice to understand that what you read, see, hear from many of the forms of electronic media - is that they're not just there to attempt to 'inform you', but they're also there for other reasons fairly counterintuitive to their intended purpose.

I didn't agree with alot of what T Mckenna said over the years, but I always found this quote to stick for me personally. Took the words right out've my mouth:

Terence McKenna wrote:
“Don’t worry. You don’t know enough to worry. Who do you think you are that you should worry for cryin’ out loud? It’s a total waste of time. It presupposes such a knowledge of the situation that it is, in fact, a form of hubris.”


Work on you, be a half decent human being to yourself and others that are close to you. Your inner circle. Work from there. That's important above all else. No need to take on the weight of the world & thinking you understand what's going on and attempting to go out into the world and take it on. Work on you and have that spread to who's closest. Find what you enjoy doing and build your life out from/around that - something to balance yourself in both worlds that can hopefully sustain your day to day living. Make the memories with those closest, especially yourself. That's what matters at the end of the day - and that's what can propel change, slowly but surely.

The little things in day to day are very important. They make life significantly more beautiful relative to everything that goes on. It's not just some fancy shmansy wording - it's true so much of the time, at least from my experience.

Life & nature are inherently hierarchical, and we're apes. I think we're doing pretty well, all things considered.

Have a good day.


 
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