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why all the Boiling filtering and washing ,good for? Options
 
shomtai
#1 Posted : 12/15/2019 3:27:57 PM
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hello 2 u all

i was thinking taking fresh san pedro ' meash it with some acidic water ' then add naoh, xyiline and HCL water.

my question ? will it work? what is the reaon for boiling every thing and then squeez and boil and squiz. why not jusat base your cactus puree?
tnks
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 12/16/2019 1:13:14 AM

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Some people have simply added base to cactus puree and it works. This would be a cactus STB (straight-to-base).

Please report any results to confirm (or otherwise).


Welcome to the Nexus. Always nice to see another cactus fan.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
shomtai
#3 Posted : 12/16/2019 7:16:48 AM
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thank you,
will be doing it today:
500G of fresh green outer layer san pedro was put in a blendder and got puree and then was boild for 2 hourse with vinger and water and then put in the freezer. till today

my plan is: defrost , add naoh , shake shake shake. then to add xyline and stirr it a bit and let it sit , then pull the xyline and repet this pross 3 times.
after 3 xyline pulls will add acid water seperate the layers and into the evoporation dish.

am i missing somthing?
i still trying to understand why do people work so hard to make a tee insted of puree
and why to MEK wash you product
what are the idle PH values for extraction?
 
leratiomyces
#4 Posted : 12/16/2019 11:50:26 AM
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People filter out plant material because it's a pain in the bum when it comes to extractions.
Greater chance of emulsions and can't use a sep funnel.

Having said that, pete666 put in a lot of effort to write up a cactus stb method. You should take a look.

Mek is used to purify the crude product. I think it improves colour of the crystals more than anything.
 
coAsTal
#5 Posted : 12/16/2019 4:18:04 PM

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Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use completely dried/powdered plant matter if you're going STB?
 
doubledog
#6 Posted : 12/16/2019 4:40:46 PM

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For me, main reason for preparing cactus concentrated tea by boiling is its lower volume, so much lower amount of hydroxide and toluene is needed then. So, it is all dependant on your limitations and goals.
 
shomtai
#7 Posted : 12/16/2019 5:16:58 PM
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Greater chance of emulsions and can't use a sep funnel.

THANKS that is exacly what happend took the leyers long time to seprete

Having said that, pete666 put in a lot of effort to write up a cactus stb method. You should take a look.

CANT find PETE666 TEK???


 
shomtai
#8 Posted : 12/16/2019 5:18:19 PM
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doubledog wrote:
For me, main reason for preparing cactus concentrated tea by boiling is its lower volume, so much lower amount of hydroxide and toluene is needed then. So, it is all dependant on your limitations and goals.


ALOSO TNX
idid 500 G of fresh cacti test and i have much more so the volume thing is right to the pooint
 
leratiomyces
#9 Posted : 12/16/2019 7:31:57 PM
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shomtai wrote:

Greater chance of emulsions and can't use a sep funnel.

THANKS that is exacly what happend took the leyers long time to seprete

Having said that, pete666 put in a lot of effort to write up a cactus stb method. You should take a look.

CANT find PETE666 TEK???





https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=80734

Let us know how you go.
I haven't tried it myself, but will get to it one day.
 
shomtai
#10 Posted : 12/17/2019 6:51:36 AM
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UPDATE:
at the moment the acid water are in the oven on 70C',
after i added to xyline to the cacti NAOH juice , it tookit 3 houres to seprete and i could not use my
sep funnel.
then i pull the xyline and mixed in the sep funnel and then water was collcted
few question
1/ the xyline acid water had between the lyers oily bubley layer
2, what to much HCL will do to product?
 
shomtai
#11 Posted : 12/17/2019 11:14:40 AM
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AT THE MOMENT PULLED 0.15g
 
shomtai
#12 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:03:51 PM
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Hi all , from my last extract I pulled 0.3. From 500g outer fresh part of San pedro
, Not so good. It was STB without boiling and filtering.
That was a test
Tomorrow gonna do 10kg fresh cacti ,will remove core
Plan:3 boils and and filtering.collect Al the water. And reduce it

I have few questions:
1.any ideas who much cacti water should I expect after reducing
2.what is the ideal pH i should work with the acid boil , base part and acid salt part
3. How mux xylin I should expect to use .
4.how long does the cacti Juice should stay with NAOh befor xyline is added
5. How long does the acid water should stay with the xyilne
 
Grey Fox
#13 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:19:10 PM

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Why remove the core? I dont understand why people do this. Most, but not all, of the alks are in the green flesh. But there are still some alks in the inner white flesh and core. Why discard those alks?

Removing the core only makes sense if you are going to eat the cactus. Then it makes sense to discard the core because it is tough and fibrous. But if you are making tea or doing an extraction then why not capture as much of the alks as possible?
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
shomtai
#14 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:21:25 PM
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Ok then. Core will be saved!!
Make sense
 
shomtai
#15 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:22:11 PM
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Can you help with my other question s
 
Grey Fox
#16 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:28:39 PM

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Sorry but I've never done extractions before. Just eating the cactus or making tea is all that I know.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
shomtai
#17 Posted : 12/19/2019 6:36:39 PM
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Thank you
 
downwardsfromzero
#18 Posted : 12/20/2019 1:56:11 AM

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Freeze your cactus thoroughly before processing it any further. This helps to rupture the plant cells, making the extractables more accessible.

Use distilled water if you live in a hard water area otherwise you'll end up with tons of sediment. You'll still get a fair amount of sediment anyhow. You will not need to add much acid at all - the alkaloids are present along with soluble organic acids in the cactus, otherwise the plant would be impossibly basic. Adding a little ascorbic acid or citric acid seems to do no harm.

With 10kg cactus, reducing down tea without caramelising it will leave you with about 10L of liquid. Your starting volume will be in the order of 50- 100L. That's a lot of liquid to be dealing with. You might want to try using something like 2kg before embarking on an endeavour of which you have apparently very little experience.

Be prepared to spend A LOT of time on the boil - you don't want to burn your pans by hurrying.

If you are willing to stand beside your pans the whole time, there is a technique for indoor boiling down of the tea that avoids producing huge amounts of steam, which can be an issue in areas with cold/damp winters. By having three sets of lids for each pan it is possible to use the lids as erstwhile condensers.

After allowing a maximum amount of condensation to build up before dripping occurs, the water can be wiped off the lid (lid 1) with a silicone spatula and saved for later use - it is distilled water, after all. Meanwhile, a previously water-cooled lid (lid 2) has been placed on the pan already. The freshly wiped but still hot lid (lid 1) is placed, preferably floated, on cold water. The third lid (lid 3, of course) has been removed from the cold water and dried so that it will be ready to place on the pan when the next lid (lid 2) is removed, wiped dry and placed on the cooling water. The cycle continues as long as necessary.

Why go to all this trouble? One benefit this procedure offers is prevention of a crusty build-up of drying cactus goo which slowly creeps up the side of the pan when evaporating without a lid. This goo also forms a thin crust on top of the cactus soup which slows evaporation. IME, the forced condensation onto a cold surface sped up the volume reduction quite noticeably, as well as greatly reducing the amount of steam escaping into the kitchen. If you have the time to commit, I would suggest giving it a try. It may be a viable domestic alternative to pilot-scale evaporation equipment you'd need otherwise.

Another alternative might be to fit a suitable condensing apparatus (still-head and condenser) onto a saucepan lid, but I'm not describing that here. A modicum of one's own research would be of benefit to anyone wanting to proceed in that direction.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
shomtai
#19 Posted : 12/20/2019 6:37:48 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Freeze your cactus thoroughly before processing it any further. This helps to rupture the plant cells, making the extractables more accessible.

Use distilled water if you live in a hard water area otherwise you'll end up with tons of sediment. You'll still get a fair amount of sediment anyhow. You will not need to add much acid at all - the alkaloids are present along with soluble organic acids in the cactus, otherwise the plant would be impossibly basic. Adding a little ascorbic acid or citric acid seems to do no harm.

With 10kg cactus, reducing down tea without caramelising it will leave you with about 10L of liquid. Your starting volume will be in the order of 50- 100L. That's a lot of liquid to be dealing with. You might want to try using something like 2kg before embarking on an endeavour of which you have apparently very little experience.

Be prepared to spend A LOT of time on the boil - you don't want to burn your pans by hurrying.

If you are willing to stand beside your pans the whole time, there is a technique for indoor boiling down of the tea that avoids producing huge amounts of steam, which can be an issue in areas with cold/damp winters. By having three sets of lids for each pan it is possible to use the lids as erstwhile condensers.

After allowing a maximum amount of condensation to build up before dripping occurs, the water can be wiped off the lid (lid 1) with a silicone spatula and saved for later use - it is distilled water, after all. Meanwhile, a previously water-cooled lid (lid 2) has been placed on the pan already. The freshly wiped but still hot lid (lid 1) is placed, preferably floated, on cold water. The third lid (lid 3, of course) has been removed from the cold water and dried so that it will be ready to place on the pan when the next lid (lid 2) is removed, wiped dry and placed on the cooling water. The cycle continues as long as necessary.

Why go to all this trouble? One benefit this procedure offers is prevention of a crusty build-up of drying cactus goo which slowly creeps up the side of the pan when evaporating without a lid. This goo also forms a thin crust on top of the cactus soup which slows evaporation. IME, the forced condensation onto a cold surface sped up the volume reduction quite noticeably, as well as greatly reducing the amount of steam escaping into the kitchen. If you have the time to commit, I would suggest giving it a try. It may be a vible domestic alternative to pilot-scale evaporation equipment you'd need otherwise.

Another alternative might be to fit a suitable condensing apparatus (still-head and condenser) onto a saucepan lid, but I'm not describing that here. A modicum of research one's own would be of benefit to anyone wanting to proceed in that direction.


Wow , thanks for the time put into the answer!
Now, it is such a large project cuz we are many people Gona use it.
All are coming to help with the process, and we Gona stay all night, so we have time to keep an eye on the boils. I'm using pots that can be discarded after so no worries about dry gooo.
We are usin 6 post, so 100 liter is not so bad.

I will be greatfull if you'll answer my other question pls
 
downwardsfromzero
#20 Posted : 12/20/2019 12:31:09 PM

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I'd say don't bother extracting, just drink the tea. If that answers your other questions.

If you have a large enough outdoor space I'd recommend brewing the cactus over an open fire in a large cauldron. If you can set up a stone circle around the fire pit then all the better. Burn incense and smudge the brew regularly throughout. If one or more of your friends are able to sing and/or play acoustic music that will also help. The brewing process will likely take a day. Starting today would seem optimal.

If you do still decide to extract, the contact time for acid/base is not important except that you should ensure the acid or base is thoroughly mixed through the liquid. Being meticulous with mixing becomes of greater importance as the volume of liquid increases. Smaller batches (but obviously not too small!) are always easier to handle in this respect.

Details for acid titration of the NPS are given already in the various mescaline extraction threads.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
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