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Is caapi paste extract the same as harmala alkaloids for changa? Options
 
avillax
#1 Posted : 12/8/2019 3:27:56 AM
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Hello, the hardest part of making changa was extracting the harmalas from caapi vine, I was wondering if I use yellow caapi paste extract 30x, is that the same as harmala alkaloids?

This is the changa I want to make:
Materials
1g of preferred base material (Banisteriopsis caapi leaf is common)
500mg DMT
1.5-2g of Harmala alkaloid freebase
20ml of the highest purity ethanol available (preferably 80%+ grain alcohols, like Everclear). Make sure it is not a denatured alcohol used in chemical applications as these contain toxic alcohols or extremely bitter compounds.
2 small jars or shot glasses

How would you do it with the caapi paste?

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avillax
#2 Posted : 12/8/2019 3:34:33 AM
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Eaglepath
#3 Posted : 12/8/2019 10:04:22 AM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


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No you cant use extract.. You will create Changa hasch!Smile I mean it works but theres way better approaches..

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You need the pure Harmala alkaloids and preferrable in freebase form..
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
Jagube
#4 Posted : 12/8/2019 11:50:59 AM

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Can anyone explain why caapi leaf, rue seeds and other harmala sources where the harmalas are in salt form are reasonably smokable, while the smoking of DMT salts is strongly advised against?

Is this because with smoked harmalas the amount needed is very small (like 1-3mg), which also means you get less of the supposedly harmful acid?
 
Eaglepath
#5 Posted : 12/9/2019 2:01:03 PM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


Posts: 676
Joined: 08-Jul-2017
Last visit: 07-Jul-2020
Location: Barcelona
Jagube wrote:
Can anyone explain why caapi leaf, rue seeds and other harmala sources where the harmalas are in salt form are reasonably smokable, while the smoking of DMT salts is strongly advised against?

Is this because with smoked harmalas the amount needed is very small (like 1-3mg), which also means you get less of the supposedly harmful acid?


To add to the confusion haha its strongly advised here and there to smoke Harmala salts as well..

People smoke Chaliponga leaves as well.. DMT Salts..Smile

Aaaand... Nicotine in tabacco is salt as well.. This is in my sense and experience a myth.. But I would like to see some proof of danger of smoking salts vs freebase..
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
Jagube
#6 Posted : 12/9/2019 9:08:05 PM

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Eaglepath wrote:
Aaaand... Nicotine in tabacco is salt as well.. This is in my sense and experience a myth.. But I would like to see some proof of danger of smoking salts vs freebase..

Yes, and according to Daily intake of nicotine during cigarette smoking,
Quote:
Daily intake of nicotine averaged 37.6 mg (+/- 17.7, SD) but varied widely among subjects (10.5 to 78.6 mg)

That's more than the typical DMT dose, which is not undertaken daily, and nicotine is slightly lighter than DMT, so that's more molecules of the alkaloid salt (assuming the nicotine figures are expressed in freebase nicotine weight). Maybe it's about the type of salt, with the naturally occurring ones typically being more benign than the acetates?
 
Homo Trypens
#7 Posted : 12/9/2019 10:45:10 PM

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I think it's mainly that we can use freebase and avoid the potential risk.

It was mentioned long time ago that fumarates can produce a nasty pyrolysis product that causes respiratory problems in small amounts. That doesn't say anything about HCl and acetates though. Or tannates in plants.

I'd say if you're a cigarette smoker, never mind Pleased

For some users, whether salts can also be vaporized instead of smoked will matter. I haven't tried yet. I've heard that yes, but it could take higher temperatures that might burn the spice.

---

@avillax

You can extract the alkaloids from your extract and convert to freebase. Or you can determine the percentage in the extract (by bioassay, test extraction, or guesstimate based on 30x typical caapi) and use it directly if that's what you want.

Are you sure you want harmalas : dmt at 3:1? Most people seem to go for the reverse 1:3. I like half of changa weight to be DMT, so I use 1 harmalas, 2 herbs, 3 spice.
Homo Trypens attached the following image(s):
changa.png (4,881kb) downloaded 34 time(s).
 
 
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