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HypnicJerk
#1 Posted : 10/18/2019 7:16:53 AM

Better tired in the Morning than bored all Night.


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Through my jumps both with ayahuasca and DMT I've began to form a rough idea of how the universe works. Of course this can only be done if you entertain the idea that what we experience as psychonauts is real. And that I have found to be the hardest choice for some people.

WHO WE ARE

I'll explain from the perspective of the individual human. We are like a cell in the being of Earth. We preform a function interact with organisms which help us carry it out. Ego is what separates us acting as a wall to maintain individuality. All life on this planet is part of a single organism. We are unaware of this hive mind like blood cell is unaware of the human it inhabits. God/Mother Nature/Lady Green is the "hive mind" of all terrestrial life.
The reason we don't interact with her absent of psychological alteration is the same reason we don't interact with our own organ systems or cells. I believe she is aware of us in much the same way when there is there is pain in the world she can feel in the same way we would feel an injury or illness.

EGO
Ego acts as an conscience energy barrier that allows entities, including ourselves, to maintain individuality and separates us from consciously interacting with others on a metaphysical level.
It is also highly important to entities as it defines their existence, who they are and what they can do. Ego requires two things: self belief and validation external from itself. For example you can truly believe in your perceived self image but if you don't have evidence, works to prove it, or others who agree with your description of yourself you will begin to doubt it. The exception is someone who lives in delusion and entities of that sort human or not are dangerous.

GOD

God as most religions depict is a being tied very closely to the collective of earth. I believe however our god did not create the universe but is the culmination of all terrestrial life and conscious energy.
This means that where there is other life they have their own collective consciousness that is an "equivalent" to our god. The quotations are due to the fact that some planetary organisms are more or less powerful than ours. Some seek to spread their influence or steal the influence of other entities.
The beings we encounter are likely the whole consciousness of a planet attempting to garner our admiration and respect or to feed into their ego.

CURRENCY OF DMT ENTITIES

It has become increasingly clear to me what the intent of DMT entities is. The often give grand tours of majestic vistas, preform elaborate displays, or present objects of power they have acquired or created. This is all to achieve one goal, to amaze us and to instill within our minds that they are beings of great power and authority and deserving of recognition.
I believe that the currency of the gods is ego. The more faithful followers one has the more power they can siphoned. Power lies within the minds of the subjugated. Concentrated thought and prayer produces measurable energy. Once we choose to believe in them and in their power it grows. These entities start with the power of a planet but can conquest others like a nation or interact with other beings subjects in a "culture war". This is likely the reason for religions enforcing a "One True God" rule.

UNIVERSAL LANDSCAPE

It seems that the universe is rife with life all competing to encompass the entirety of it. Me are likely acting as ambassadors to distant planetary organisms and are embarking on a grand cosmic tour. Some of these beings hope to keep us and win our loyalties and some seem indifferent I tend to travel with a pair of entities who go from place to place adding items to their collection.

CONCLUSION

I don't believe all entities are inherently hostile or have ulterior motives, simply that they are complex beings with a full range of emotions and flaws much like we are and our God is. It's important while traveling not to be the child in the candy shop but a hiker in the forrest. We must take this opportunity to explore other modes of life but not be so quick categorize these beings all knowing and powerful.

I'd love to hear if anyone has similar or differing ideals and what fellow psychonauts have experienced in terms of the hierarchy of the universe. A good read is NGC_2264's depiction of entities its extremely captivating.
"My fate cannot be mastered; it can only be collaborated with and thereby, to some extent, directed. Nor am I the captain of my soul; I am only its noisiest passenger."- Aldous Huxley
 

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VibeSurfer
#2 Posted : 10/18/2019 2:51:44 PM

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Well, to be blunt, no, not really. Big grin

Then again who knows
Found
 
FranLover
#3 Posted : 10/18/2019 3:41:58 PM

Long live the world in peace, prosperity, and freedom from suffering


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Is this analysis based on your own experiences?

The Who We Are part is very enjoyable ^_^ but after that it desintegrates into speculating about hyperspace (the most alien thing ever) by injecting human feelings, ideas, and concepts. One doesn't think thats the approach that will yield an approximation of the truth. More to the point, one has personally experienced the opposite; the giving of gifts and impossible artefacts as pure, unadulturated love, much like a father buying his child a toy.
Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
KuzeMaf
#4 Posted : 10/18/2019 5:27:10 PM

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FranLover wrote:

Is this analysis based on your own experiences?

The Who We Are part is very enjoyable ^_^ but after that it desintegrates into speculating about hyperspace (the most alien thing ever) by injecting human feelings, ideas, and concepts. One doesn't think thats the approach that will yield an approximation of the truth. More to the point, one has personally experienced the opposite; the giving of gifts and impossible artefacts as pure, unadulturated love, much like a father buying his child a toy.



Yea the WHO WE ARE section is beautifully expressed, and it seems that a lot of humans may find comfort in believing such an idea.

The other sections do not align with my personal experiences at all. I think the whole concept of POWER is nothing but a mere joke within the realms of hyperspace.

I too have experienced quite the opposite. I am always bathed in such a deep unconditional love as things are revealed, or gifts are given to me.

Side note, A lot of the beings I've come across are also equally as surprised to see me as I am to see them.

Love and Light and Travel Well.
 
HypnicJerk
#5 Posted : 10/19/2019 12:35:03 AM

Better tired in the Morning than bored all Night.


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Thanks for the responses!

Yes, I would say all the statements I made are speculations based on personal experience and by hearing the stories of others. Then again all experience gained from the Otherside is subjective and our understanding of the hyperspace realm is based purely on how we feel during the trip and what we believe we have seen.

And that is what I've decided to question. To be more skeptical on the Otherside. My first experiences were filled with euphoric feelings, grand visuals, and elaborate gifts and displays. I later drifted away from jumping blind and began holding onto an intention when traveling hyperspace. This left less room for distraction and allowed me to analyze the similarities between the realms and entities that appeared. Like I said I'm trying an explorer's approach rather than taking it all at face value and jumping without intention.

However it is all subjective and the conclusions I draw may differ from yours. It seems that entities change the less attention you give them that was my experience. And this is what led to my ideals.

I'm glad that the "Who We Are" section resonated with you all it's the one I'm quite sure of the rest may or may not change as I continue traveling.

Speaking of which does anyone have specific travel companion entities? One(s) that you always seem to be with. I am consistantly drawn to two entities masculine and feminine who travel place to place and I tag along and they are generally indifferent to me unless I need help or they find an artifact they want me to see.
"My fate cannot be mastered; it can only be collaborated with and thereby, to some extent, directed. Nor am I the captain of my soul; I am only its noisiest passenger."- Aldous Huxley
 
FranLover
#6 Posted : 10/19/2019 2:32:39 AM

Long live the world in peace, prosperity, and freedom from suffering


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Yes, two jesters, male and female, precisley like the ying and yang. Best way to describe the relationship is guardian angels, given that they have had my back in rough trips.

My idea is this; if you enter in the approach of explorer, you enter with psychological conditioning, you are acting in a way. More down to earth; why would they be nice to you if you are looking at them from over your shoulder, suspecting them of ulterior motives? I definitley feel they are you in some way, the telepathy is intense, they seem to know in what spirits you come in, with what intentions.

You used to jump in blind, and now you jump in eyes wide open? Doesnt DMT open your eyes? What was it doing for you before?

As for entities changing when you dont give them attention...are you telling me you smoked dmt, met an entity, and ignored it? What are you smoalking for? O_O

Its like music, it doesnt work if you dont play it with feel. But I'm asuming your explorer pose means indiferent, which need not be the case at all =)

Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
Metta-Morpheus
#7 Posted : 10/19/2019 2:54:24 AM

Fly with the sea birds and sh!t

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I agree with the gifts/knowledge being out of pure love. And I’m not a believer of one god. Maybe every person has one god(their higher selves) but there is not one that is the same universally. IMO. I believe “god” resides in every person.

And my travel companion seems to be my higher self, guiding my lower consciousness through the experiences. Though I feel a male jester some times, both tripping and throughout regular life that I started calling Loki.
“You think that’s air you’re breathing?” -Morpheus
“Whoa fellas, I’m feeling kinda bowling ball-ish.” -Leopold Butters Stoch
It’s got what plants crave. -Brawndo

Magic is here for us all to feel. Naming it isn’t what makes it real.
Running around for us all to know, noticing isn’t what makes it so... -Avett Brothers
 
HypnicJerk
#8 Posted : 10/21/2019 1:16:13 AM

Better tired in the Morning than bored all Night.


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The "pure love" descriptions confuses me if I'm being honest. I have had many experiences where positive emotions came in concentrated forms or entities expressed positive emotion to make their intent knowm. The pure love description always reminds me of religion however and how God is often portrayed as all loving and perfect.

Maybe this is were my own personal ideals are bleeding into my perception of entities because I believe that higher powers have a full range of emotion. I don't believe there are extreme goods or evils simply that all beings, human or not, have to rationalize their decisions to themselves.

As for blind jumping I see that as just a pleasure seeking activity which is enjoyable but not necessarily beneficial. Like a bungie jump it get a rush of adrenaline an amazing experience did you really take time to analyze what you were seeing at the peak?

Unlike DMT jumps where you just see where it sends you, with Ayahuasca one is always told to have an intention. I'd say I'm simply approaching the short DMT trip with the same intention I would with Ayahuasca.

I don't ignore entities by attention I mean I don't immediately buy into thier portrayal of themselves. I interact with them but try to gauge their actual position before placing them on a pedestal.

I usually just stick to the pair of entities I travel with. I follow them from place to place and they kind of treat me as an equal they're just more knowledgeable. Other entities seem to be patronizing or get frustrated when I'm getting what they're trying to communicate.

If they truly can feel my intentions which I'm quite positive they can they would know I'm simply trying to get to know them while remaining cautious some are fine with that others seem bored or annoyed that I'm not amazed just to be in their presence.
"My fate cannot be mastered; it can only be collaborated with and thereby, to some extent, directed. Nor am I the captain of my soul; I am only its noisiest passenger."- Aldous Huxley
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#9 Posted : 11/16/2019 4:20:46 PM

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@HypnicJerk you're one of the few posters in these online psychedelic circles that I find particularly intriguing. It's kinda obvious that you take the idea of exploration seriously, and you're actively tring to make sense of things... Also, seriously, that avatar is something else. Did you just find it online at random or you actually saw Fooly Cooly? If you didn't, I recommend watching it. That's some fine psychedelic art... I find it quite interesting how psychedelic motifs leak into popular culture, from this to Marvel movies... Or Kenshi Yonezu songs and music videos.

Anyway... It's a shame you're not posting anymore, I'd love to hear more of your experiences and thoughts. I personally disagree with your assessment of cosmology, but thinking about it is definitely a good thing. About your "companions", I used to have one but kinda got rid of him. I had a "teacher" years ago, a human who kinda lived in two worlds. They were absolutely messed up, but I learned many valuable things from them about mysticism, some of which cannot really be put into words - but among them was a certain way of holding myself spiritually upright, and these "spirit guides" kinda disappeared once I learned that.

Here's my advice. Information is worthless. Initiations are worthless. You know and have access to everything to begin with, and all the answers are within you. If someone tells you they have something for you in exchange for your obedience, they don't have anything for you but contempt. You're bigger and more valuable than most of what's out there, you just forgot yourself. Kneel to no one but the Creator, and if someone tells you they are the Creator, trust me, they aren't. The Creator wouldn't need to introduce themselves or attempt to woo you.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xss27
#10 Posted : 11/16/2019 9:21:42 PM

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To be frank I think you're projecting your own tapestry of belief upon the DMT experience. It's interesting, but it reminds me of McKenna's own version of what he thought was really happening. I really do think no one has a grasp on what is occurring and it is best not to attribute definite story telling to an already highly poetic experience.

Once you realize how powerful the mind is at projecting, and conversely how easily it can be projected upon by entities, you have no choice but to accept the DMT experience as a poetic fiction. Without a strong point of reference or point of comparison it is useless to attribute a narrative to that experience. I mean you can, but what is the point? You might be chasing phantoms or fantasy. And it doesn't change anything worth a damn either, but potentially exposes you to delusional thinking at worst - you may end up actually believing it as real.

Personally, I don't trust the entities. We are out of our depth in that space and have no real way of knowing what the score is, whether what we see is what is actually there, or what their real intentions or motivations are. It is even more ambiguous than people in the waking world! What sealed it for me was when a beautiful feminine entity that radiated love and wisdom put her hand through my 'face'/point of perception and into my fucking skull, which I felt as a cold wind brushing past my physical face, that terminated the DMT experience. For a long time I thought it was kool, and maybe there was no malicious intent.. but upon reflection that was a gross violation of my space (assuming the entity was real and not a figment). Would a loving and wise entity do such a thing? My current hypothesis is that I projected those qualities on to an entity, and that entity tapped my mental energy which is why the experience abruptly terminated.

I'm a very cynical individual. I think being cynical about the contents of the DMT experience is warranted and absolutely necessary to be honest, all things considered.
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#11 Posted : 11/17/2019 11:20:58 AM

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xss27 wrote:
I really do think no one has a grasp on what is occurring and it is best not to attribute definite story telling to an already highly poetic experience.
[..]
My current hypothesis is that I projected those qualities on to an entity, and that entity tapped my mental energy which is why the experience abruptly terminated.

I think you're contradicting yourself. I mean, you're saying it's pointless to jump to any conclusion, and then you jump to a conclusion that's very complex and convoluted. Tapped your mental energy? What is "mental energy" even? May have simply ejected you from their reality, or turned off the trip in your brain, or erased your memories of the subsequent part of the trip that nevertheless occurred, or what the hell ever else. Or you just hallucinated her and the trip and the end of the trip was just the natural end of the trip.

xss27 wrote:
I'm a very cynical individual. I think being cynical about the contents of the DMT experience is warranted and absolutely necessary to be honest, all things considered.

Skepticism is warranted in my mind, cynicism not so much, but tastes differ.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xss27
#12 Posted : 11/17/2019 2:03:05 PM

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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
I think you're contradicting yourself. I mean, you're saying it's pointless to jump to any conclusion, and then you jump to a conclusion that's very complex and convoluted. Tapped your mental energy? What is "mental energy" even? May have simply ejected you from their reality, or turned off the trip in your brain, or erased your memories of the subsequent part of the trip that nevertheless occurred, or what the hell ever else. Or you just hallucinated her and the trip and the end of the trip was just the natural end of the trip.


It was more coming to conclusions that are poetic or imply some sort of narrative, as opposed to bare bones mechanics or cause/effect. McKenna's tranforming machine elves that share hyperdimensional objects, that's a narrative. The apparent existence of entities, not making assumptions on what their real form or intentions are, is not so much a narrative but a bare bones mechanical aspect of the experience. Once you start labelling them as this and that, then it becomes a narrative.

My example, and culminating cynical position, is because I saw one thing as apparently beautiful but then came to realize that its appearance may not betray its real identity or motivation. We can't project a narrative upon the experience because we have absolutely no way to validate it. We can however account some basic mechanics of the experience.

Mental energy is what is being expended to allow the visions to occur in the first place, a sort of voltage or potential. It is not the neurotransmitters themselves, but some sort of voltage in the nervous system itself. It's the same thing used in other visionary experiences, even lucid dreaming.. the ability maintain a particular direction of focus or attention. You have a limited amount of it - lucid dreaming is what made me aware of it in the first place, and the sensation of running out of gas so to speak.
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#13 Posted : 11/17/2019 8:11:48 PM

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xss27 wrote:
It was more coming to conclusions that are poetic or imply some sort of narrative, as opposed to bare bones mechanics or cause/effect. McKenna's tranforming machine elves that share hyperdimensional objects, that's a narrative. The apparent existence of entities, not making assumptions on what their real form or intentions are, is not so much a narrative but a bare bones mechanical aspect of the experience. Once you start labelling them as this and that, then it becomes a narrative.

My example, and culminating cynical position, is because I saw one thing as apparently beautiful but then came to realize that its appearance may not betray its real identity or motivation. We can't project a narrative upon the experience because we have absolutely no way to validate it. We can however account some basic mechanics of the experience.

Mental energy is what is being expended to allow the visions to occur in the first place, a sort of voltage or potential. It is not the neurotransmitters themselves, but some sort of voltage in the nervous system itself. It's the same thing used in other visionary experiences, even lucid dreaming.. the ability maintain a particular direction of focus or attention. You have a limited amount of it - lucid dreaming is what made me aware of it in the first place, and the sensation of running out of gas so to speak.


Okay I'm going to answer but this is absolutely 100% tongue in cheek, as I find it quite pointless to argue about stuff like this, and I really don't think I'll convince you, nor do I really want to.

So here's my two cents on this... Mechanisms, aka "rules of nature" are, in my eyes, a level of complexity above plain narratives. A narrative is just a single event retold so others can share in the experience. A rule of nature, or mechanism, is a generalization that allows for accurate predictions of future events and the results of our actions. Like, I have a screwdriver in my hand, and I'm standing near sea level on Earth. Knowing the rules of gravity, I can predict how long it will take for the screwdriver to hit the ground if I were to drop it - and what we tend to overlook, it also allows me to predict that it will, indeed, in every situation, without fail, drop and hit the ground if I let go of it.

Now, I am unaware of any such generalizations being even possible in relation to the psychedelic experience. Not only can I not predict whether the fractal thingamajig that I'm holding in a field of octarine jimjam will drop if I let it go, it's pretty hard to even define what "holding" and "letting go" means, and whether the thingamajig is even separate from me, or the jimjam, or me from the jimjam, or does any of these things, including myself, even exist in the first place.

We tend to give names to recurring experiences so that we can talk about them. Like "entities", we found that many of us have the experience of meeting living creatures, and so we talk about it in that way. But hey, these experiences tend to come in so many different flavors and kinds, and often it's quite up to scrutiny whether lumping these together even makes sense... We're trying to generalize, to the best of our ability, and potentially confusing ourselves in the process. In contrast, McKenna's description of machine elves was a narrative of his own experience - that's what he saw and "understood" in his trips, so he retold it in the way humans tend to retell stuff.

With mental energy, if it's a narrative of your personal experience, like it was taught to you or realized in hyperspace, I can accept it as your own reality. As a "mechanic" or "rule" like gravity, I really cannot, as I have personally never experienced anything that would hint toward the existence of such a thing... Smile So you're taking just as much liberty by talking about energies and entities as McKenna was by talking about machine elves.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xss27
#14 Posted : 11/18/2019 12:14:06 AM

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I think there's a massive difference between what I'm saying and what McKenna posits. He's overlaying his own tapestry of imaginings upon the entities, both during the experience and post-experience. I concede to the projection I, he, we all do during the experience, whereas no-where in his talks does he concede it - to do so would destroy the enticing story he orates as part of his show.

But, the entities are part of the mechanics, regardless of what we think they are. They are there. I can only speak from my own experience but I know what is my mind, what is what you might call the higher mind/self, and what is external and autonomous of my existence. Some of the faces and apparitions are my own entire projections, but some are most definitely not. I think most people would come to that same conclusion, it's quite apparent there are entities in that space that are apart from us entirely. Their existence is not a narrative, it is a statement of factual observation. All we can say for sure is, they are there, and that's as far as I go too.

You're right, there's not much in the way of generalisations possible in regards to the psychedelic experience. Personally I think the term 'hyperspace' is too much as it carries particular cultural connotations that I don't think are apt to describe what the mechanics of that space/experience is. Besides entities, and the minds ability to project and be projected upon, there isn't much more in terms of the mechanics that is easily identifiable. It's even more vague than waking life.

Mental energy wasn't taught to me. I experienced/learnt it directly from lucid dreaming. Anyone who's taken psychedelics knows what it is too, that feeling of being slightly spent for a day or a few afterwards. Nothing is free in life and visions are no different, the payment is mental energy.


 
PsyDuckmonkey
#15 Posted : 11/21/2019 5:20:17 PM

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Now I do think that McKenna is taking a lot of liberties in retelling his experiences, I only pointed out that you do, too. Your statement that "most people would come to that same conclusion" is pure conjecture, and is even false, as there are quite a few practicing psychonauts who are convinced that entities are not independent beings, but mere projections of their own mental world. If you were right, we wouldn't be seeing so many discussions on psychedelic forums between "entity believers" and "disbelievers".

Since consensus does not exist, even between people with a lot of experience using these drugs, you are clearly generalizing your own experience in a way that lacks a foundation.

As for feeling spent for a day or two after a trip, yes there is a level of fatigue involved, and we know the biological basis of it (depletion of neurotransmitters). However, equating it to subjective experiences like being able to hold one's focus / lucidity in a lucid dream, or your trip stopping abruptly after experiencing an entity reaching inside your head, is also pure conjecture.

You might be right of course, but then again, McKenna might also be right just as much. You're generalizing your experience, and he was generalizing his experience. You're talking with certainty that is unfounded from an external viewpoint, and he was doing the same. What I'd like to point out is that you're actually doing the very thing that you chastised HypnicJerk or McKenna for. Whether the unfounded conjectures are poetic or mechanistic doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, unfounded conjectures.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
La Alquimista
#16 Posted : 12/6/2019 5:06:32 AM
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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
Now I do think that McKenna is taking a lot of liberties in retelling his experiences, I only pointed out that you do, too. Your statement that "most people would come to that same conclusion" is pure conjecture, and is even false, as there are quite a few practicing psychonauts who are convinced that entities are not independent beings, but mere projections of their own mental world. If you were right, we wouldn't be seeing so many discussions on psychedelic forums between "entity believers" and "disbelievers".

Since consensus does not exist, even between people with a lot of experience using these drugs, you are clearly generalizing your own experience in a way that lacks a foundation.

As for feeling spent for a day or two after a trip, yes there is a level of fatigue involved, and we know the biological basis of it (depletion of neurotransmitters). However, equating it to subjective experiences like being able to hold one's focus / lucidity in a lucid dream, or your trip stopping abruptly after experiencing an entity reaching inside your head, is also pure conjecture.

You might be right of course, but then again, McKenna might also be right just as much. You're generalizing your experience, and he was generalizing his experience. You're talking with certainty that is unfounded from an external viewpoint, and he was doing the same. What I'd like to point out is that you're actually doing the very thing that you chastised HypnicJerk or McKenna for. Whether the unfounded conjectures are poetic or mechanistic doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, unfounded conjectures.


La Alquimista agrees with your perspective and adds they find their own perspectives on personal religious values and beliefs are strengthened by travel using the spirit molecule. It seems to be a common trend the individual's findings make more sense after such an experience, though of course this definition of common is also a generalization from limited data collected from the group they have discussed psychedelic experience with. For this traveler, the ability to accept and respect the beliefs of others has also greatly improved. This attribute is a welcome improvement to their personal attitude, finding childhood experience to have programmed rigid tolerance for only ones own perspectives. PsyDuckmonkey, you are praised for making statements on the mind which this traveler find quite agreeable.
 
 
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