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Mitragynine and MAOI question... Options
 
twitchy
#1 Posted : 8/27/2019 6:40:58 AM

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Does anyone know if there is a significant risk with consuming kratom and MAOI? Traditional opiates are obviously a big no-no due to the potentiation via respiratory suppression, but kratom does not recruit the b arrestin response so there is no respiratory impairment, at least that I'm aware of. I'm asking for two reasons, one being that I would like to find a way to potentiate the mitragynine I take in order to reduce my dosage (I'm a chronic pain patient who's fed up with traditional pain management), and I am planning on going to Peru for a more traditional ayahuasca retreat and would love not to be in constant pain during the trip. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Nydex
#2 Posted : 8/27/2019 6:27:02 PM

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Hi twitchy,

Throughout my kratom usage I've noticed only one negative effect that came from ingestion of a MAOI, and it was green yerba mate tea. It's a weak MAOI, but it's one. When I took my usual dose (~8.5g) and drank two cups of mate tea, I started feeling very sick. Intense headache, slight nausea and general stomach discomfort. I'll never combine mate and kratom again. Not sure if that helps, but that's all I can give you as info...

Safe travels in Peru, my friend. Maybe we'll meet there someday, as I'm going in 5 months too.

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twitchy
#3 Posted : 8/27/2019 7:50:45 PM

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Nydex wrote:
Hi twitchy,

Throughout my kratom usage I've noticed only one negative effect that came from ingestion of a MAOI, and it was green yerba mate tea. It's a weak MAOI, but it's one. When I took my usual dose (~8.5g) and drank two cups of mate tea, I started feeling very sick. Intense headache, slight nausea and general stomach discomfort. I'll never combine mate and kratom again. Not sure if that helps, but that's all I can give you as info...

Safe travels in Peru, my friend. Maybe we'll meet there someday, as I'm going in 5 months too.

Cheers! Thumbs up



Thanks for the response! The lack of research on Kratom is surprising given it's long history of usage in it's native regions, western science is frustratingly slow and skeptical and fraught with corporate interests who definitely have a vested interest in keeping herbal medicinals out of the loop. I would guess that the dosage would need to be significantly reduced when combined with a MAOI, but I can't find anything in terms of actual data and would likely be hard pressed to understand it, even if I did lol. For me it's been a god send though, and if not for kratom I would have went through nearly a year of untreated severe chronic pain. My doctor is woefully ignorant about it, he even told me that kratom causes hallucinations and death Stop
We're really looking forward to Peru, we're travel-virgins though and completely ignorant about such things, but immersion is often the best teacher.
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rOm
#4 Posted : 8/27/2019 9:22:12 PM

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I never found MAOI an issue with kratom if you're used to both.
however they do'ntreally potentiate itlike they potentiate other trytamines ( psilocin, dmt, iboga for exemple ). you can use curcuma, starfruit, grapefruit, magnesium are potentiators alos try shilajit, could be good to make a smoothie withthis and ginger some oil, citrus etc.. many tips to potentaite doses or lower your tolerance via NMDA antagonisms too....
Iboga is better thanstraight MAOI for that job.
Hit me up if you want to discuss.
kratom has its flaws like addcition but its definitely safer than pharmaceuticals pain program... I for one got opiated at hospital and got to fightthis demon of addction I got through pain andhospitalization.. and I much prefer my life ON kratom than OFF. I could stop.. butthen I think about drugs all thetime and have cravings and do all sort of bad choice. I havemore control since using it as a maintenance. withother herbs and minerals.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

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twitchy
#5 Posted : 8/28/2019 6:14:09 PM

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rOm wrote:
I never found MAOI an issue with kratom if you're used to both.
however they do'ntreally potentiate itlike they potentiate other trytamines ( psilocin, dmt, iboga for exemple ). you can use curcuma, starfruit, grapefruit, magnesium are potentiators alos try shilajit, could be good to make a smoothie withthis and ginger some oil, citrus etc.. many tips to potentaite doses or lower your tolerance via NMDA antagonisms too....
Iboga is better thanstraight MAOI for that job.
Hit me up if you want to discuss.
kratom has its flaws like addcition but its definitely safer than pharmaceuticals pain program... I for one got opiated at hospital and got to fightthis demon of addction I got through pain andhospitalization.. and I much prefer my life ON kratom than OFF. I could stop.. butthen I think about drugs all thetime and have cravings and do all sort of bad choice. I havemore control since using it as a maintenance. withother herbs and minerals.


Thanks for replying, I take a magnesium supplement that was prescribed by my neurologist but will try grapefruit and see what happens. Ideally I would like to get my dosage of kratom down from the 3 teaspoons I'm taking, but I guess it will take some experimentation to find what still works when potentiated. I wonder if Mitragynine is affected by MAO-b rather than A since grapefruit works?
The only withdrawal symptoms I've had with kratom that really bothered me was that bizzare restless leg bit. It probably sounds silly to folks that haven't experienced it I suppose, but it's rough. Definitely Beats the hell out of the withdrawal symptoms from traditional opiates though, and I'm looking at being in moderate to severe pain for the rest of my life so unless some miracle procedure is developed to regrow laminas and vertebrae then I'm probably going to be taking kratom until they ban it. Being able to take as much as needed rather than worrying about some doctor counting my pills, is great but also an exercise in self-control but thankfully I don't get much of a euphoric feeling or buzz from it, just analgesia.
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dragonrider
#6 Posted : 8/29/2019 2:19:09 PM

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I would not risk it. There may still be cardiovascular issues.
 
twitchy
#7 Posted : 8/29/2019 9:45:01 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
I would not risk it. There may still be cardiovascular issues.


It's definitely not a decision yet, I'm still trying to dig up some more specific information about the interactions. Do you have or know of any additional information?
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Cactus Man
#8 Posted : 10/18/2019 11:44:32 PM
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Have wondered about this topic myself, always assumed/heard it was a no-no to mix the two.
 
 
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