CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Vaping disease and deaths from THC cartridges... Options
 
null24
#1 Posted : 9/11/2019 3:20:13 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 3043
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
It is still a mystery, but as of this post, 6 individuals in the US have succumbed and 100s are ill with a strange respiratory illness that has been linked to their use of THC (and in some cases, THC use has not been admitted by the patient but is most likely the case). I assumed at first that they were smoking illegal, home made cartridges that use a strange solvent, but rec weed is legal in my state, and one of the deaths was here. The man who died was well into his adult years, and it has been reported that while the brand is unknown, he purchased his carts at a legal store.

WTF is going on? I smoke cigarettes, and ALL the pots I can find, and have done so since the mid-1980s, but there is something about vaping I don't like. I went through a little period where I bought the Yocan, got into vaping waxes and oils, and a battery to use carts with. The pure THC carts don't really do it for me, and are crazy expensive, so I don't have a ton of experience with them, but when I was into vaping THC, I could hardly breathe. Huge amounts of fluid and mucous would build up in my lungs producing big nasty coughs, especially at night and morning. I quit using concentrates for that reason.

So, besides idiotic conspiracy theories, what do y'all think is going on, what are your thoughts and feelings about the situation, and what is your opinion on the safety of THC vaping? Any ideas on how to do it and live a long and happy life free from being "strangled from the inside"?
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
dragonrider
#2 Posted : 9/11/2019 3:39:10 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1560
Joined: 09-Jul-2016
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Location: spacetime
THC is a fatty, tar-like substance. Lungs have all those tiny little alveoli.
You don't want those alveoli to get jammed.

Doesn't matter how harmless the substance is. If you would coat the inside of your lungs with the pure semen of holy angels, it would still block the respiratory function.

If solvents are added it can only get worse. The alveoli are like the boundary between the outside world and your body. There's probably a lot of very complex stuff going on that has to do with the immune system.

If you inhale pain thinner, you probably wipe out the whole defence system down there. Alcohol based lotions even do that to the skin. They worsen fungal infections.
 
Loveall
#3 Posted : 9/11/2019 4:38:32 PM

💖

Chemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1454
Joined: 11-Mar-2017
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Location: 🌎
The issue could be someone using non-water soluble carrier liquids.

Propylene Glycol and Glicerin seem OK and are water soluble.

The black market could be using some carrier that is not water soluble. That could cause issues in the lungs since it is more difficult for the body to deal with.

If you buy something from the underground market and it is not miscible in water it could be a red flag. Actually not buying from the black market at all seems like the better idea. Also, this miscibility "test" does not mean that you are in the clear of you do the test and it is miscible, since I'm just speculating and could be very wrong here.

If someone does find a water immiscible vaping liquid out there would be interesting to know about it.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Tony6Strings
#4 Posted : 9/11/2019 5:14:36 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 241
Joined: 23-Jun-2018
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Thought I saw some hysteria in the paper about this. I don't use cartridges. I don't care for push button smoking. Roll my own out of a bag of menthol, I have for years. Vape my spice in a pipe with a wad of copper scrubbie. Smoke my oil on a titanium nail that I heat with a torch. I thought about getting a wax pen for work, instead I've been eating my oil for the day right before I go in. Anyways I hope they figure out what is what and get it fixed.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Egzoset
#5 Posted : 9/11/2019 5:20:18 PM

Vaporist of Borg


Posts: 54
Joined: 21-Oct-2010
Last visit: 13-Sep-2019
Location: Qc/Can
Salutations Null24,

null24 wrote:
...what do y'all think is going on...


Globally it demonstrates how the system fails its citizens, not to mention there could have been pro-active prevention since at least 2014, e.g. when UN's FCTC/COP6 event could have launched a wave of research & development. Instead just the next year Québec's sinister of "healthy ways" imported the report's prohibitionist conclusions via cut 'n paste, then Ontario's PM went to visit our parliament, then our western neighbours also rendered e-Cigs/Vaporizers legally equivalent to tobacco/nicotine SMOKING some while after - effectively denying potential public health value of alternative consumption methods, gambling in lack of proper regulation, which allowed some crisis to finally occur (assuming it's real)... So now it's quite difficult deciding who's a liar as half-truths and true lies mix up with insufficient evidence, etc. Not even with help from a conspiracy, just let such situation rot then ban further to justify maintaining the spiral.

null24 wrote:
...strange respiratory illness that has been linked to their use of THC... ...home-made cartridges that use a strange solvent...


M'Yeah, it kills you if you don't pay your taxes i guess, hummm... Honestly this all gave me some "strange" feeling of Déjà Vu! Like there ain't no pesticides in the "legal" mari-caca sold at SQdC stores. Sure, never heard of myclobutanil changing into Zyklon by the consumer's own action: e.g. smoking/heating. Admire the cynical irony after announcing "kosher" grades... So it's not like fake news are only found on social media, what do i know!

Wut?

null24 wrote:
I smoke cigarettes... ...but there is something about vaping I don't like.


As an ex-smoker i've converted to vaporism and i'm no fan of vaping neither. IMO the consumption methods need to be studied seriously then compared to identify what's better left out in future solutions - e.g. anything that exposes to so-called human "errors", to begin with!

null24 wrote:
Huge amounts of fluid and mucous would build up in my lungs producing big nasty coughs, especially at night and morning.


People's selection of a consumption method comes with consequences. THC triggering lubrification is one thing if we consider that's an expectorant, chronic inflamation resulting from exceeding tolerance-challenging limits quite another...

Neutral

null24 wrote:
...what is your opinion on the safety of THC vaping?


The "strange" new element of this binary equation being e-Cigs while THC has been around for generations, even civilizations (...), i'd be tempted to point an accusating finger at "vaping".

null24 wrote:
Any ideas on how to do it and live a long and happy life free from being "strangled from the inside"?


Yes, i happen to be of opinion that this relatively new consumption method is fundamentally flawed, starting with a ritual which actually promotes monster toking. Introduction of "Harm Reduction" features at the conceptualization phase should be considered, the multiplication of visual self-awareness hints for example, but not only. In the digital age it would only make sense to explore dosing applications, personally i'm also convinced Inlet Water should be integrated early into any inhalator design (in droplets amount, not bottles). Standardized recourse to cotton ball filters would allow post-vaporization studies based on session samples, possibly enabling further retro-action adjustments i believe. Real-time indexed dual-point optical scanning of the cannabic stream combined to cotton analysis results should allow the creation of a data-base intended to empower dynamic bio-feedback (teaching) tablet apps (or karaoke-like games in social setups!), the goal being to ease the acquisition of operator skills as a function of desired effect, yet without a risk for excessively repeated coughing episodes IMO. Contrary to popular slow/steady thermostatic schemes i'd much prefer pulse heating as it limits secondary reactions, the addition of a secondary heater stage might be another option worthy of a thought knowing it was part of Enrico Bouchard's Sublimator (claimed to produce finer microscopic vapour droplets, hence easier to pass into the blood stream apparently).

In conclusion a device's conception greatly influences its associated ritual, which in the case of cigarette/"joint" smoking exposes to tolerance build-up from a consumption profile with no proper dosing aspect at all (it all burns...), simultaneously combined with chronic self-poisoning as a bonus.

Etc., etc.

Good day, have fun!! Big grin
 
Metta-Morpheus
#6 Posted : 9/11/2019 7:06:15 PM

Always choose the red pill...


Posts: 217
Joined: 18-May-2019
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: The Dark Side Of The Moon
null24 wrote:
but when I was into vaping THC, I could hardly breathe. Huge amounts of fluid and mucous would build up in my lungs producing big nasty coughs, especially at night and morning. I quit using concentrates for that reason.


My buddy stop using his for these exact same reasons. When I told him about this post he even agreed it was worse at night and mornings.
I can only show you the door. You are the one who must step through it...
“Whoa fellas, I’m feeling kinda bowling ball-ish”
It’s got what plants crave

Magic is here for us all to feel. Naming it isn’t what makes it real.
Running around for us all to know, noticing isn’t what makes so...
 
endlessness
#7 Posted : 9/11/2019 7:36:42 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator

Posts: 13398
Joined: 19-Feb-2008
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: Jungle
There is some suspicion it could be vitamin e acetate added to the e-liquids for viscosity. Im on the phone now but if you google these keywords you'll see some articles. Inhaling vitamin e is bad news, oil inhalation pneumonia...

If you vap cannabis cartridges, make it yourself, or send it to analysis or at least buy from reputable supplier. Maybe we can come up with a home test for vitamin e but it could always just be substituted to something else bad. I'll look into it

What is really the best is to just vaporize cannabis or hash with a classic convection vaporizer like volcano, v tower, etc...
 
twitchy
#8 Posted : 9/11/2019 8:02:43 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 288
Joined: 05-Jun-2019
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Location: nammyohorenghekyo
When cigarette manufacturers went over to the FSC cigarettes, we couldn't stand the taste of them anymore. We tried vaping for a while in an effort to quit smoking whatever the nasty stuff was they were using for fire retardants and my wife would inhale massive clouds of PG/VG. She developed a rather nasty cough shortly afterwards, whereas I would draw the vapor into my mouth and swish it around without inhaling and I didn't get the coughing symptoms she did. Eventually due to leaky tanks and endless coil replacing, we ended up getting a cigarette making machine and never looked back. While neither habit is likely to win the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, I think I prefer combusted hydrocarbons to propylene glycol or glycerine.
Cannabis has yet to be legalized where I'm at, but when and if it is, I think I'm going to lean towards edibles. I had some brownies once that were... magnificent. Shocked
Author of this Post assumes no Responsibility, nor makes any Guarantee of the Accuracy or Validity of material in this Post. Material Contained or referred to in this Post is presented for Entertainment Purposes Only. This Material IS Not Intended to be Inferred, or Interpreted as Information, Advice, News, Instruction, or Factual Information.
 
FranLover
#9 Posted : 9/12/2019 5:48:04 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 701
Joined: 24-Sep-2018
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: The greatest adventure still lays ahead
I vaped during a year more or less and even though it was very cool cause you could smoke all day everywhere and anywhere, I remember once I got a cartidge that tasted like shit and hurt my lungs 😠 that stuff was no bueno. I guess some cartidges are good. All of them seemed to be missing key components of bud. You could get high off vapes, but not baked, if I recall correctly.
I'm wild again
Beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
am I
 
Achilles
#10 Posted : 9/12/2019 10:37:06 AM

I know more about the gods then your priest Ive seen them.


Posts: 243
Joined: 21-May-2017
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: Merica
Yea I played with the vapes for a while but for one they just arnt the same as good old bud and on top of that they apparently are really messing people up. They may be convenient when it comes to concealed public smoking but the risk isn’t worth the reward imo
This guys ego ^
 
Felnik
#11 Posted : 9/12/2019 3:17:43 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1746
Joined: 15-Apr-2008
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: in the Forest
I still go old skool with bud . Everyone I know is using the liquid vaping pens for their weed at this point. I understand the convenience but something always feels a little off. The hits feel like they go dangerously deep into the lungs. I’ve tried to stear clear of them myself. I’m not surprised people are dieing from it .
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Arthur C. Clarke


http://vimeo.com/32001208
 
Ulim
#12 Posted : 9/12/2019 6:29:21 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1021
Joined: 19-Mar-2016
Last visit: 12-Sep-2019
Im vaping just the flower in ceramic chambers and my lungs are totally fine.
I tried a CBD eliquid but its kinda eh. I dont like the artificial taste and the sticky mouthfeel you get from the pg/vg.
 
FranLover
#13 Posted : 9/12/2019 7:02:07 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 701
Joined: 24-Sep-2018
Last visit: 16-Sep-2019
Location: The greatest adventure still lays ahead
Herb vaporizors are great, its the vegetable glycerin and all that jazz which as Felnik says "goes dangerously deep into the lungs." So acurate Very happy
I'm wild again
Beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
am I
 
null24
#14 Posted : 9/12/2019 10:18:41 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 3043
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
endlessness wrote:
There is some suspicion it could be vitamin e acetate added to the e-liquids for viscosity. Im on the phone now but if you google these keywords you'll see some articles. Inhaling vitamin e is bad news, oil inhalation pneumonia...

If you vap cannabis cartridges, make it yourself, or send it to analysis or at least buy from reputable supplier. Maybe we can come up with a home test for vitamin e but it could always just be substituted to something else bad. I'll look into it

What is really the best is to just vaporize cannabis or hash with a classic convection vaporizer like volcano, v tower, etc...

A couple articles in our local free weekly paper are pointing to the vitamin e oil being used as a dilutant as the culprit in the THC cart disease. A huge problem has been the fact that kids and adults in non-legal states who showed up in hospital didnt want to admit that they were using THC and hospital staff couldn't point towards a culprit.

Another issue now that it has come out that THC carts are suspect is-which brand? A 45 year old WA state resodent who just died from the disease could not tell doctors what brand he purchased legally, because he, like most people buy by price and pay no attention to brand.

A local dilutant manufacturer just pulled his Vit-E product from his website, where it is unclear whether or not he sold it fropm and to whom. According to FDA labelling requirements, the ingredients of the dilutant must be listed, but this manufacturer claimed it to be "proprietary information" and wanted to only have to list it as a vitamin and was not allowed to. What is unclear to me is how and why he is selling it from his website, since dilutants are only supposed to be sold to licensed manufacturers or something? I'll try to link the articles I'm getting this from if they have online equivalents...

LINKS TO WILLAMETTE WEEK ARTICLES (ALL VERY SHORT READS)
-vape-entrepreneur-debated-with-state-regulators-whether-he-had-to-label-his-ingredients/

shopkeepers-selling-vape-cartridges-dont-know-whats-inside-them/

mysterious-death-of-a-vape-user-has-massive-stakes-for-oregons-cannabis-consumers/
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 
dragonrider
#15 Posted : 9/13/2019 8:03:54 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1560
Joined: 09-Jul-2016
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Location: spacetime
endlessness wrote:
There is some suspicion it could be vitamin e acetate added to the e-liquids for viscosity. Im on the phone now but if you google these keywords you'll see some articles. Inhaling vitamin e is bad news, oil inhalation pneumonia...

If you vap cannabis cartridges, make it yourself, or send it to analysis or at least buy from reputable supplier. Maybe we can come up with a home test for vitamin e but it could always just be substituted to something else bad. I'll look into it

What is really the best is to just vaporize cannabis or hash with a classic convection vaporizer like volcano, v tower, etc...

Temperature can also be an issue. If the vaping temperature is too low, the vaped substances may condensate in the lungs. Gasses are something the lungs can deal with. Liquids or solids not so much.
 
null24
#16 Posted : 9/14/2019 5:20:52 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 3043
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Quote:
If you vap cannabis cartridges, make it yourself,

I'm not sure if even that is safe. If dilutant manufacturers are using dangerous substances, and if they are allowed to not list them by claiming it proprietary information, a consumer cannot reliably know if it is safe...
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 
dragonrider
#17 Posted : 9/15/2019 8:05:38 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1560
Joined: 09-Jul-2016
Last visit: 15-Sep-2019
Location: spacetime
null24 wrote:
Quote:
If you vap cannabis cartridges, make it yourself,

I'm not sure if even that is safe. If dilutant manufacturers are using dangerous substances, and if they are allowed to not list them by claiming it proprietary information, a consumer cannot reliably know if it is safe...

Then there would still be the issue of vaping temperatures. Some devices may just use too low temperatures, especially when the batteries are running low.

And even when temperature would not be an issue, and you would be using completely "safe substances", then there is still the issue that we just don't know enough about what it does to the lungs.

Lungs are just not made to inhale glycerol.
We don't know what substances like glycerol do to the mucous membranes.

I suppose that there is a lot of activity going on in and around those mucous membranes that is of vital importance for our health and wellbeing.

These membranes are a tiny layer between our inner ecosystem, and the outside world, with all it's bacteria, fungi, virusses and other stuff that could make us sick, or that could even kill us.

You are basically releasing a solvent on those membranes.
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.051 seconds.