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benzyme
#21 Posted : 9/8/2019 12:16:31 AM

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It was recently discovered that the human brain can differentiate between 11 distinct dimensions..l wonder if this pure coincidence (the 11-dimension model was discussed in Michio Kaku's seminal work 'Hyperspace', 1994), or psychedelic experiences legitimately give a glimpse.

Computer models are nothing more than algorithmic poetry, and like I said, our current tech doesn't even begin to describe the deep psychedelic experience; but we'll eventually get there.

unfortunately,I don't think much research funding will be allocated to finding the answers; clinical studies are always pharma-centric. The funds will likely come from angel investors, who are sympathetic to psychedelic research outside of a hospital setting.
My peers in the biohacking community would attest to that.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
hug46
#22 Posted : 9/8/2019 8:52:06 AM

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dragonrider wrote:

The only way out of this, i think, is the human heart. We need to put our heart above intellect. Love and compassion are probably the only things in this world that can help us out of the mess we're in.


I think that lot of the problems in the west are down to people putting heart above intellect. Most of the political propaganda that i have seen has been designed to appeal on an emotional level, whereby the receiver of the tainted information feels that they are righteous and, as you say, compassionate.

Great conversation. I love the idea of a 4th wave too. And i think that recreation, whether it be with drugs or other things is very good for the spirit.Makes me think of th Alan Watts quote....

"We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played."
be safe

my music
 
FranLover
#23 Posted : 9/8/2019 2:28:18 PM

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Hug46, I think thats a semantics thing. Those speeches the politicians give are oratory, directed at emotions which are thought based and ego based. You consider "Build that wall!" an emotional discourse? The only thing that it aims at is the ego, which thinks its better than others. Is that speech aimed at the heart? What heart? Anyone cheering has no heart!

Historically politicians aim at pride in country and culture, which is an ego trip. Where there is ego there is no love, as one limits, the other is limitless.

Thats what Dragonrider is saying I think, cause I use the same distinction between the true heart and ego driven emotions.

To make the case clearer go look at Incels at reddit. Everything there is emotional as you say, all this spuing of hate, of insecurity, of self loathing, of envy, selfishness, the desire and ambition for power above others: utter darkness. Yet all this is not over emotionality, too much heart, but 0 emotion, 0 heart. All that emotion (and incels is pure emotion) is thought based! They basically get all riled up over thoughts and intelectualization! They think of girls, of what they desire and dont have, of their insecurities, and all this naturally becomes emotion. But it is not such. Its origin is in self centered thoughts, creating self centered emotion, rendering a self centered human being.

The beatles were right; All you need is love. Love is all you need...

P.S; This Tedtalk is great stuff, I used to watch it when persuing my first extractions.
I'm wild again
Beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
am I
 
hug46
#24 Posted : 9/8/2019 4:13:43 PM

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FranLover wrote:
Hug46, I think thats a semantics thing. Those speeches the politicians give are oratory, directed at emotions which are thought based and ego based. You consider "Build that wall!" an emotional discourse? The only thing that it aims at is the ego, which thinks its better than others. Is that speech aimed at the heart? What heart? Anyone cheering has no heart!


Perhaps. and i agree that it depends how one views what having a heart actually is. As far as the build a wall analogy goes, that kind of rhetoric appeals to fear. Unfounded fears are based on ignorance which have nothing to do with efficient use of intellect. When people swallow that kind of crap they fear for their loved ones so there is love involved in their thinking. Make someone worry about their kids, it's one of the oldest tricks in the book but still very effective because it brings love into the equation.


I think that true compassion and empathy lies when one understands that we are probably the same as those that we consider heartless. And if the right buttons are pushed we could react the same way. Then again i personally do not believe that "heart" is a one way street. I think that our hearts and love can make us do the most beautiful things and also the most atrocious. It is an eternal contradiction.
be safe

my music
 
Jagube
#25 Posted : 9/8/2019 5:04:58 PM

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benzyme wrote:
I became aware in the mid-90's, when I discovered deoxy.org (that's where I
first learned about dmt).

it is back online as www.reoxy.org

I checked it out and didn't get a good first impression. It may be OT, but I think it is at least somewhat relevant to the movement of rebellion against the established order at large, some currents of which are not particularly constructive.

A few bits from http://www.reoxy.org/index/Wage_Slavery@target=_top.html:

Quote:
Anarchy/In Praise Of Idleness
Anarchy/The Abolition Of Work
Anarchy/The Decline And Fall Of Work
Aphorisms Against Work
Product is the Excrement of Action
Revolt Against Work
The Psychopathology of Work
Zero-Hour Day, Zero-Day Workweek

Incidentally someone has had to put in work to create that list and the website, and people can access it thanks to technology, which is the result of the work of millions of people.
It seems ironic that someone would write an essay titled "Product is the excrement of action", implying that the essay itself is excrement. Not to mention all the drugs that may have inspired it or at least are praised elsewhere on the very same website.

This is not to say none of it is useful, can inspire etc.

But you can't destroy one system without replacing it with or proposing another solution.
 
FranLover
#26 Posted : 9/8/2019 5:56:03 PM

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True hug46, recognizing we are the same is key.

However I dont think it is ever the heart that makes us do atroscious things, if we are refering to the heart as love (as in a I ❤ YOU, the heart being a symbol of love and kindness.) When people do atroscious things they lack heart, are "senseless."

I'm wild again
Beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
am I
 
benzyme
#27 Posted : 9/8/2019 7:06:10 PM

bioanalytical chemist

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Jagube wrote:
benzyme wrote:
I became aware in the mid-90's, when I discovered deoxy.org (that's where I
first learned about dmt).

it is back online as www.reoxy.org

I checked it out and didn't get a good first impression. It may be OT, but I think it is at least somewhat relevant to the movement of rebellion against the established order at large, some currents of which are not particularly constructive.

A few bits from http://www.reoxy.org/index/Wage_Slavery@target=_top.html:

Quote:
Anarchy/In Praise Of Idleness
Anarchy/The Abolition Of Work
Anarchy/The Decline And Fall Of Work
Aphorisms Against Work
Product is the Excrement of Action
Revolt Against Work
The Psychopathology of Work
Zero-Hour Day, Zero-Day Workweek

Incidentally someone has had to put in work to create that list and the website, and people can access it thanks to technology, which is the result of the work of millions of people.
It seems ironic that someone would write an essay titled "Product is the excrement of action", implying that the essay itself is excrement. Not to mention all the drugs that may have inspired it or at least are praised elsewhere on the very same website.

This is not to say none of it is useful, can inspire etc.

But you can't destroy one system without replacing it with or proposing another solution.


It's turned into more of a blog about thought experiments and history. I spent most of my time
in TerrenceMcKennaLand, the Allan Watts pages, and John Lilly's page.

There is no perfect system, and never will be, because of corrupt human behavior and sociopathy.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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dragonrider
#28 Posted : 9/11/2019 12:01:23 AM

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hug46 wrote:

I think that lot of the problems in the west are down to people putting heart above intellect. Most of the political propaganda that i have seen has been designed to appeal on an emotional level, whereby the receiver of the tainted information feels that they are righteous and, as you say, compassionate

I don't think most of the political propaganda is aimed at the heart. Rather the underbelly.
It is about fear. Rarely compassion.
And most of the compassion we see in politics is fake compassion. Virtue signalling.

The point is, that almost everybody has a good, moral and compassionate side.
But not everybody is smart.

If we have to rely on just reason or intelligence, we're screwed. Many of todays problems are beyond the scope of comprehension of the ordinary layman. And most people lack the intelligence to even see how inadequate their layman views are.

So it is not just that most people do not posses enough information to make important decissions, but they also do not understand the relevance of that in relation to the judgements they make.

More importantly, in todays world, intelligent people are generally doing well, while people with little intelligence are struggling to get by. And they are generally speaking not being appreciated that much as a person either. They are being concentrated in neighbourhoods and jobs with other unapreciated people who are struggling. And very often with psychological or psychiatric issues.

So they very often end up being bitter and resentfull.

Now ofcourse reason is not going to change any of that.

So the plague of anti-intellectualism, that is dominating todays politics and thereby destroying the very planet we live on, cannot be cured with the use of intellect.




 
hug46
#29 Posted : 9/11/2019 10:59:33 PM

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FranLover wrote:
You consider "Build that wall!" an emotional discourse? The only thing that it aims at is the ego,


I disagree. It goes deeper than ego. Fear is instinct.

Dragonrider wrote:
The point is, that almost everybody has a good, moral and compassionate side. But not everybody is smart.


And that is my point. I don't think that we should just rely just on reason and intelligence but it should definitely take precedence over heart. If for instance you take franlovers build a wall rhetoric. The sort of people it is aimed at are people that want to protect their families, who they love, from the "rapists" and "drug pushers" from down south. It appeals to their love for those that are close to them and their own personal morality. And they lack the intellect to work out that they are being bullshitted. Ignorance mixed with morality and love has the makings of a dangerous cocktail.

Dragonrider wrote:
More importantly, in todays world, intelligent people are generally doing well, while people with little intelligence are struggling to get by. And they are generally speaking not being appreciated that much as a person either. They are being concentrated in neighbourhoods and jobs with other unapreciated people who are struggling. And very often with psychological or psychiatric issues.

So they very often end up being bitter and resentfull.


Then what do you suggest for these kinds of people? Because to be quite honest i don't want them voting with their hearts. I would rather that they be educated in some way in order to be able to make better decisions for themselves and others. Which involves developing their intellect.
Saying that love and compassion will save the day is very nice but too naive for my liking.It just sounds kinda flowery and lacking in any kind of substance. Education, common sense and critical thinking will stop humanity crapping the bed.

Quote:
So the plague of anti-intellectualism, that is dominating todays politics and thereby destroying the very planet we live on, cannot be cured with the use of intellect.


I think the opposite. If something is anti intellectual, you should cure it with reason and by empowering the populace with decent schooling.
be safe

my music
 
dragonrider
#30 Posted : 9/12/2019 9:00:58 AM

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hug46 wrote:
FranLover wrote:
You consider "Build that wall!" an emotional discourse? The only thing that it aims at is the ego,


I disagree. It goes deeper than ego. Fear is instinct.

Dragonrider wrote:
The point is, that almost everybody has a good, moral and compassionate side. But not everybody is smart.


And that is my point. I don't think that we should just rely just on reason and intelligence but it should definitely take precedence over heart. If for instance you take franlovers build a wall rhetoric. The sort of people it is aimed at are people that want to protect their families, who they love, from the "rapists" and "drug pushers" from down south. It appeals to their love for those that are close to them and their own personal morality. And they lack the intellect to work out that they are being bullshitted. Ignorance mixed with morality and love has the makings of a dangerous cocktail.

Dragonrider wrote:
More importantly, in todays world, intelligent people are generally doing well, while people with little intelligence are struggling to get by. And they are generally speaking not being appreciated that much as a person either. They are being concentrated in neighbourhoods and jobs with other unapreciated people who are struggling. And very often with psychological or psychiatric issues.

So they very often end up being bitter and resentfull.


Then what do you suggest for these kinds of people? Because to be quite honest i don't want them voting with their hearts. I would rather that they be educated in some way in order to be able to make better decisions for themselves and others. Which involves developing their intellect.
Saying that love and compassion will save the day is very nice but too naive for my liking.It just sounds kinda flowery and lacking in any kind of substance. Education, common sense and critical thinking will stop humanity crapping the bed.

Quote:
So the plague of anti-intellectualism, that is dominating todays politics and thereby destroying the very planet we live on, cannot be cured with the use of intellect.


I think the opposite. If something is anti intellectual, you should cure it with reason and by empowering the populace with decent schooling.

I think people often come to hate that, wich is unatainable to them.

The anti-intellectual sentiments stem from feeling unappreciated and knowing that they could never, no matter how hard they would try, be as smart as the other 50% of the population.
Their response is to not just give up on themselves, but to convince themselves that they don't realy care about intellectual stuff anyway.

If we would live in a society that would care about everyone, and not just the lucky few, then things would probably be different.

People with a low economic status are being looked down on. Not even being seen as human often.
Ofcourse they all know that guys like trump don't realy care about them. But trump treats the upper 50% the same way as they themselves have been treated all their lives, and that's why they love him.
 
hug46
#31 Posted : 9/12/2019 10:06:42 PM

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dragonrider wrote:

The anti-intellectual sentiments stem from feeling unappreciated and knowing that they could never, no matter how hard they would try, be as smart as the other 50% of the population.
Their response is to not just give up on themselves, but to convince themselves that they don't realy care about intellectual stuff anyway.

If we would live in a society that would care about everyone, and not just the lucky few, then things would probably be different.

People with a low economic status are being looked down on. Not even being seen as human often.
Ofcourse they all know that guys like trump don't realy care about them. But trump treats the upper 50% the same way as they themselves have been treated all their lives, and that's why they love him.


I don't really understand this. Are you saying that 50 per cent of people are not as smart as the other 50 per cent, and the dumber 50 per cent are from low economic backgrounds?
be safe

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dragonrider
#32 Posted : 9/13/2019 8:31:57 AM

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hug46 wrote:
dragonrider wrote:

The anti-intellectual sentiments stem from feeling unappreciated and knowing that they could never, no matter how hard they would try, be as smart as the other 50% of the population.
Their response is to not just give up on themselves, but to convince themselves that they don't realy care about intellectual stuff anyway.

If we would live in a society that would care about everyone, and not just the lucky few, then things would probably be different.

People with a low economic status are being looked down on. Not even being seen as human often.
Ofcourse they all know that guys like trump don't realy care about them. But trump treats the upper 50% the same way as they themselves have been treated all their lives, and that's why they love him.


I don't really understand this. Are you saying that 50 per cent of people are not as smart as the other 50 per cent, and the dumber 50 per cent are from low economic backgrounds?

I'm saying that 50% of the people are not as smart as the other 50% and that because of this they end up being poor.

50% is just approximately ofcourse. But looking at economic figures, you will see that for instance 40 to 50% of the people in the united states has become poorer over the last decade, while the other 50 to 60 % has become wealthier.
 
dragonrider
#33 Posted : 9/13/2019 8:56:15 AM

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dragonrider wrote:
hug46 wrote:
dragonrider wrote:

The anti-intellectual sentiments stem from feeling unappreciated and knowing that they could never, no matter how hard they would try, be as smart as the other 50% of the population.
Their response is to not just give up on themselves, but to convince themselves that they don't realy care about intellectual stuff anyway.

If we would live in a society that would care about everyone, and not just the lucky few, then things would probably be different.

People with a low economic status are being looked down on. Not even being seen as human often.
Ofcourse they all know that guys like trump don't realy care about them. But trump treats the upper 50% the same way as they themselves have been treated all their lives, and that's why they love him.


I don't really understand this. Are you saying that 50 per cent of people are not as smart as the other 50 per cent, and the dumber 50 per cent are from low economic backgrounds?

I'm saying that 50% of the people are not as smart as the other 50% and that because of this they end up being poor.

50% is just approximately ofcourse. But looking at economic figures, you will see that for instance 40 to 50% of the people in the united states has become poorer over the last decade, while the other 50 to 60 % has become wealthier.

And also....obama, biden and clinton did not even begin to adress the issue of growing income inequality. Ofcourse trump won't either, but nobody, not even fox, is pretending trump is a realy nice guy who realy cares about people.

So i think that does help explain the popularity of a guy like trump, and the dislike of intellectuals like obama.
 
hug46
#34 Posted : 9/13/2019 9:17:37 AM

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dragonrider wrote:

I'm saying that 50% of the people are not as smart as the other 50% and that because of this they end up being poor.


I think that the environment in which you grow up in has far more to do with being poor than how smart you are.
The most positive way of addressing inequality is to invest in decent state sponsored education. In that way you are empowering the individual.



be safe

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dragonrider
#35 Posted : 9/13/2019 4:18:54 PM

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hug46 wrote:
dragonrider wrote:

I'm saying that 50% of the people are not as smart as the other 50% and that because of this they end up being poor.


I think that the environment in which you grow up in has far more to do with being poor than how smart you are.
The most positive way of addressing inequality is to invest in decent state sponsored education. In that way you are empowering the individual.




I agree with the importance of education. And i don't doubt that you're right about the lack of equal opportunities.

But there will always be a large group of people as well, who have not been blessed with any significant talent.

And life is not easy for those people.

And my main point is that i don't realy want to believe that a lack of talents stands in the way for any of those people to be a morally examplary individual.

Ofcourse it may be harder for them, because they may be more gullible, etc.

But we can also make it harder for them by treating them as not worthy of our attention.

Jamie, another nexian, had this slogan: "healed people heal people, and hurt people hurt people". I suppose that this is often the case.

I think most of the trump voters are hurt people. Trump himself is probably a very hurt individual.
And the hurt probably plays a greater role in the loathsome politics he stands for, than the stupidity of his followers.
 
FranLover
#36 Posted : 9/13/2019 4:42:53 PM

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If you love your family but not the world, its not love. Love is the unkown and limitless.

Love is wisdom. Love is good and goodness is just. People are over intelectually stimulated but underdevloped in listening to the heart and mind in stilness and with total honesty. They dont know themselves, thus they dont know the world. You think Trump ever marvles at a flower or is blushed by goodness when commiting a kind act? There is no such thing as an intelligence which is not born out of love in my oppinion. Im not saying anything new, this has all been said by most all greek philosophers. Is intelligence but aquiring information? And what is education? Whats the purpose of it? I think its to grow as a human being, to understand how to live and die in this world, how to observe things, to learn how to learn, to learn who am I, what am I, and what is love (a word which by now has lost all meaning.) To understand how why we suffer...to understand how to treat others. This I see lacking from here to China and throughout all human history. Anyone can know in what year Napoleon fought Waterloo and the historical ramifications, but who knows how to live free?? Who knows what love is? Who knows how to cultivate peace?
I'm wild again
Beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
am I
 
dragonrider
#37 Posted : 9/13/2019 7:57:14 PM

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FranLover wrote:
If you love your family but not the world, its not love. Love is the unkown and limitless.

Love is wisdom. Love is good and goodness is just. People are over intelectually stimulated but underdevloped in listening to the heart and mind in stilness and with total honesty. They dont know themselves, thus they dont know the world. You think Trump ever marvles at a flower or is blushed by goodness when commiting a kind act? There is no such thing as an intelligence which is not born out of love in my oppinion. Im not saying anything new, this has all been said by most all greek philosophers. Is intelligence but aquiring information? And what is education? Whats the purpose of it? I think its to grow as a human being, to understand how to live and die in this world, how to observe things, to learn how to learn, to learn who am I, what am I, and what is love (a word which by now has lost all meaning.) To understand how why we suffer...to understand how to treat others. This I see lacking from here to China and throughout all human history. Anyone can know in what year Napoleon fought Waterloo and the historical ramifications, but who knows how to live free?? Who knows what love is? Who knows how to cultivate peace?

Oh, i think most of us know what love is. We know it when we see it in others and we certainly know it when we feel it ourselves.

The only reason why we would ever want to deny knowing it, and the importance of it, is because we may feel in some way inadequate in relation to it. We may feel that we are not loved as much as we would want, or maybe worse, not loving as much as we know we should be.

This is probably why a guy like trump acts the way he does. Almost everything he says or does seems to be a denial of immaterial values. He has literally said "big is beautiful", wich in the context in wich he said it (it was the answer to the question wich is more important in architecture: beauty or size) basically comes down to "there is no such thing as beauty, there is only big".

You only say something like that if you feel insecure or embarrassed about your own lack of taste.
 
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