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Pharmacokinetics of harmine freebase vs salts orally Options
 
Jagube
#1 Posted : 9/10/2019 3:11:42 PM

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IME freebase harmine comes on very quickly and strong. 200mg packs a punch and I feel it within 10 minutes.

With harmala acetate, however, it takes more like 40-60 minutes and never really quite gets there.

This is the opposite of what I've heard about DMT, that its salts are absorbed more efficiently than freebase.
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
Jees
#2 Posted : 9/10/2019 4:11:47 PM

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For me orally: always FB, harmalas & deems. Gives me the least of discomforts by a long stretch, and if possible plus a gram of sodiumBIcarbonate. Thumbs up
 
Tony6Strings
#3 Posted : 9/10/2019 6:55:18 PM

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Jees, I am going to try that.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Jees
#4 Posted : 9/10/2019 7:58:11 PM

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Tony6Strings wrote:
Jees, I am going to try that.

Looking forward for feedback Thumbs up
The sodbicarb is mandatory actually.
 
blue.magic
#5 Posted : 9/11/2019 12:43:03 AM

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How do you take the freebase? Subligually?

The low "bioavailability" of harmala acetate is unfortunate. Acetates allows me to make very concentrated harmala tinctures (100 mg/mL). HCl does not stay in solution at these concentrations.
 
Jagube
#6 Posted : 9/11/2019 1:29:12 AM

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blue.magic wrote:
How do you take the freebase? Subligually?

Orally.
 
Jees
#7 Posted : 9/11/2019 11:18:47 AM

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Jagube wrote:
blue.magic wrote:
How do you take the freebase? Subligually?

Orally.

^^^indeed, 50 - 75 ml water, dissolve 1 gr sodBIcarb fully (might take some warmth/time/spoonswirling), let it cool if warmed, add the powdered FB {harmalas + deems}, gulp, chase with a shot of water.
Planning on upping the sodcicarb to 1.5 gr for harmalas above 150mg.
On 150 I've no tracers whatsoever, on 200 fb there are definitely visual tracers, you know those fast flapping-like-alien-insects criss cross lines, gotta love those zigzags Pleased



 
Elrik
#8 Posted : 9/11/2019 6:50:23 PM

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Are those tracers when your on harmaline+harmine, harmine, or THH? And do they occur more with freebase?
Using HCl salts I've never got tracers from harmaline+harmine, harmine, or reasonable THH doses. When I overdosed on THH•HCl it was like a clinically obese tracers monster was sitting on my face, that was hard to handle Laughing
 
coAsTal
#9 Posted : 9/11/2019 7:36:47 PM

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If you're adding the sodium bicarb to the FB as you take it, aren't you just "live" converting the FB to a salt in the solution as you take it?

As in, it's not really FB that is being metabolized, it becomes a salt as usual, just not ahead of time-- or am I misunderstanding.

EDITED::{corrected mis typed ingredient-- see below, thanks Jees}
 
Jees
#10 Posted : 9/12/2019 12:49:35 AM

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Elrik, tracers are ime harmala dose dependent, but usually there is deems in the cocktail anyway, I rarely take harmalas alone except for a contingent microdose of 50-100mg or so. I can't say which type harmala does that best, never took time to make that distinction.

I'm sure hcl form delivers me the tracers, had often serious tracers under traditional ayahuasca, more than ever, no wonder bc with aya it's mainly about the vine and it's harmalas. So I can attest that both salt and FB form gives me tracers. To me they are never static, always flapping around bat style Pleased

coAsTal wrote:
If you're adding the sodium carb to the FB as you take it, aren't you just "live" converting the FB to a salt in the solution as you take it?

As in, it's not really FB that is being metabolized, it becomes a salt as usual, just not ahead of time-- or am I misunderstanding.
I emphasize that it's not sodium carb!!! but sodium BI carbonate. But I take you knew that and had a little typo there. I'm not hammering your typo in the face for fun but it is a serious issue here and people who read fast diagonal might get on a wrong leg and suffer. Please allow for this extra alert for harm reduction.
Also, I don't add sodiumBIcarbonate to the freebase, but first dissolve the sodbicarb fully in some water and add then the FB products later. Maybe what you say also works just as well, but I haven't tried that so I can't confirm. Intuitively I would just not gulp down undissolved sodbicarb, it's just a hunch.

Yes I take that it all becomes salt form anyway sooner or later, I don't know all the biokinetics of the use of sodium-BI-carbonate, it is known as a general stomach relief agent and it simply does that job, to eliminate the fighting inside that stomach, at 200mg FB harmalas there comes a note of nausea trough but not that sickening fight against vomiting.

I've been repeating this trick in the forum a bit but for good reasons and I don't think to possess a special digestive tract, I only hope more people can benefit.
Further trials are necessary, I'm planning to up to 1.5 gr sodbicarb (reading this link it seems uper safe to do so) for a 200mg fb harmalas pharma session, to be continued...




 
coAsTal
#11 Posted : 9/14/2019 12:02:45 AM

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Many thanks Jees-- and I have edited my original post to reflect my regrettable (honest but lazy) mistake in my question above-- one thing I've always appreciated about this forum is the atmosphere of seriousness-- it's a credit to all learners to come here--even after a decade or more like myself-- and be assured of the best-educated advice, opinions, and knowledge on our special interests.

And to your whole answer, I did mean to extrapolte that salting the FB in a solution of bicarb just before use is a neat way to keep your FB handy and only salt a usable amount on-the-fly so to speak.

Many thanks again to everyone
 
Jees
#12 Posted : 9/14/2019 7:43:23 AM

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Thanks for the nice words and I like your avatar Pleased

At the pH of dissolved sodbicarb we could expect around 50% of deems in fb, and part of the harmalas too, in the glass. A mix between fb and salt forms anyway. But I don't know how fast or slow that equilibrium is reached, I give it no time, just poor in the powdered fb indoles in that glass of dissolved sodbicarb, swirl with a spoon and down. All might still be fb? I think the deep relief comes from the sodbicarb protecting the lining and when the lining is happy, we are happy, sort of.

It has softener/cleaner applications, go figure.
Planning to slowly increase.
 
 
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