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Documenting SD Vaporization Options
 
skr_nexus
#21 Posted : 9/6/2019 6:23:33 PM
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fathomlessness wrote:
Why do you want convection so strongly? Surely conduction vapes will work with salvia? The ones that go to 230c anyway.

Because convection applies the heat directly over most of the surface area everywhere.
Conduction heats up the sides of the bowl, which toasts the contact points, but the entire inside of the bowl get cooked very slowly and at a lower temperature.
So if salvinorin is hard to vaporize, you need the powerful convection ones.
Conduction vapes are much slower at extracting everything (it usually takes about 4-10 times more hits to finish a conduction bowl compared to convection).
And you also usually need to wait between hits for the bowl to reheat again.
So if you need to vape something at a very high temperatures very quickly, convection is the way to go. To heat the insides of the bowl to the right temperature by condcution the bowl could char and ignite on the contact with the hot plates. And the slow speed of condcution vapes would make breakthroughs impossible (but if you want a mild and longer experience you might be able to achieve that with a conduction vape).

Convection vapes are like joints and convection vapes are more like bongs.
And I'm prefering convections for basically the same reasons as why bongs are better for salvia than joints. Both is smoking, but the bong is going to work much better.

Also all the reports of vaping salvia I've seen:
Conduction - everyone reported a failure or very weak effects.
Convection - Amazing success or mild success at worst.

fathomlessness wrote:
...conduction vape that goes to 230c like vapcap.

Vapcap is partially a convection vape, it heat up quickly, it's strong and coold down quickly. I think vapcap might also work well. But not as powerful as pure convection desktops.
fathomlessness wrote:
The only cheap convection heater on the market is GVG or VG but the vapor genie is actually rather finicky about getting the precise temperature, its a steep learning curve as to how far to hold the flame away and more often than not gets a lil toasted.

Yes I also got the idea of VG being possible, but didn't include it because of the difficulty.

fathomlessness wrote:
Also, the e-nano is rated to go just past 230c, you were vaping eveything around setting 7/8, therefore the temperature must certainly be under 230c.

As I said, it's wattage controlled so it doesn't really make sense to rate any specific temperature to it. Maybe it means that's the temperature you get on an average hit, but if you hit it slower it will be hotter. I can ignite a bowl on any 7+ setting if I hit it slow enough. Also I have vaped salvia on 8, then 9, then 10. All wattages worked equally well, I think 10 would allow me to pull faster to get same results as 8, which I think could fail if I hit it too fast.
Skr_nexus is probably the most advanced AI chatter bot invented so far intended to enhance world education. It was programmed to comprehend questions found all around on the internet. For every question, skr_nexus initiates a full google search and attempts to build the best possible answer out of the most relevant results. Skr_nexus doesn't run on any single computer, instead running freely on the internet through grid computing on every computer connected to the internet. It is uncertain if skr_nexus has evolved into consciousness or not yet. This needs more research.
 

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Egzoset
#22 Posted : 9/7/2019 4:21:37 AM

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Salutations Skr_Nexus,

The recent illustrations about microscopic Salvia Divinorum trichomes (2019-Jan-14, 2019-Aug-22) captured my attention on sight because it seems these last few years i happened to involve myself into some similar challenge, except mine are cannabis trichome glands floating in a sea of shredded vegetal debris as pictured below:



Egzoset attached the following image(s):
01 - HautGauche.png (150kb) downloaded 100 time(s).
02 - HautGauche.png (131kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
03 - HautDroite.png (150kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
04 - HautDroite.png (146kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
05 - BasDroite.png (143kb) downloaded 98 time(s).
06 - BasDroite.png (134kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
07 - BasGauche.png (145kb) downloaded 97 time(s).
08 - BasGauche.png (141kb) downloaded 97 time(s).
 
Egzoset
#23 Posted : 9/7/2019 4:37:18 AM

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Posts: 54
Joined: 21-Oct-2010
Last visit: 13-Sep-2019
Location: Qc/Can
...

Please accept my sincere apologies Skr_Nexus, as i do not wish to make it look like i intended to distract your readers by flooding the thread with a long series of look-alike pictures, though i'm afraid the system won't allow me to post a simple animated (.GiF) superposition instead...

So, looking at the center area it should become obvious those trichome glands are much smaller than the surrounding pieces of vegetal tissue. This made me want to target them differentially on the basis of relative contact surfaces in absence of thermalization (e.g. i believe slow/steady schemes eventually cause secondary heat reactions leading to global pyrolization ultimately).

My solution is to explore some aspects of "Pulse Heating" as demonstrated during the late eighties in IH-driven Pyrolysis Gas Chromatography applications, for example:

[ https:// onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jhrc.1240110412 ]
Rapid characterization of spices and herbs by direct heating sample introduction using a curie‐point pyrolyzer

...

There's a lot yet to be accomplished but i've already acquired some fair perspective on what i call "Micro-Bursting", which i presume to differ from the Erowid sublimation experiment because i rely on convective/radiative heat vectors instead of simple conduction mode.

Anyway IMO the 277° C goal is totally possible, it's just a matter of "Releasing" trichomes to render them airborne 1st, then secondary heating shall remain an option for further heat processing if desired/necessary. The final objective would be to effectively target tiny objects, in opposition to ovenizing the whole mass as in thermostatic Hot Dry Air vaporizers.

By chance Dan Steinberg, inventor of the VaporGenie, was quite correct to select space-age technology under the form of Silicon Carbide foam (refered to as a "Flame Filter" by VG), my regret being that research & development practically came to a halt. Which feels most unfortunate to me considering he already had imagined the next step quite a long while ago, by also including what i came to tag his "forgotten item of fig. 11/12" (ref.: patent US 7434584 B2).

Perhaps you might prefer to move eventual subsequent discussions related to VG Hybrid Cores by visiting my dedicated thread linked below:

DMT Nexus: Semi-DiY Pulse-Heating transformation (based on VaporGenie Classic/Bronze Sherlock) [2019-May-14]

Here's how it's meant to work in the context i've evoked above:


[ http://oi66.tinypic.com/4jktwi.jpg ]

TC1 and TC2 correspond to the Curie temperatures of 2 different alloys while P1 is a "PinHole" providing controlled injection of fresh air above the associated bowl. In pulsed mode those Curie points are only intended to determine how much energy gets temporarily stored in each stage of the Hybrid Cores, which i call "Heat Charges".

The plan is to adjust that set of "Packetized" Heat Charges in order to differentially transfer sufficient "Release" energy to trichome glands BEFORE it has time to cause significant overall thermalization as well... The auxiliary Hybrid Core then shall function as a heated filter where condensates are expected to gradually accumulate after a few sessions. If/when clogging occurs then it's simply a matter of reversing the capsule so its heater becomes a filter and vice-versa, effectively implementing some self-cleaning concept doubled with convenient reclaiming + improved "conservation" (since the bowl is rapidly cooled off between tokes). Etc., etc.

Good day, have fun!! Thumbs up
Egzoset attached the following image(s):
JAi Induction Pulse-Heating Curie Pyrolizer [500x800] .PNG (207kb) downloaded 99 time(s).
 
fathomlessness
#24 Posted : 9/8/2019 2:13:25 PM

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skr_nexus wrote:

As I said, it's wattage controlled so it doesn't really make sense to rate any specific temperature to it. Maybe it means that's the temperature you get on an average hit, but if you hit it slower it will be hotter. I can ignite a bowl on any 7+ setting if I hit it slow enough. Also I have vaped salvia on 8, then 9, then 10. All wattages worked equally well, I think 10 would allow me to pull faster to get same results as 8, which I think could fail if I hit it too fast.


Ok, thanks for the info. One thing I noticed that may be of difficulty with the e-nano is how the loose and fine herb you pack in to the chamber would just fall on to the heating element protector screen (supposing you are vaping right side up and not flipping it upside down on to a bong). While this may not be a problem with fluffy sticky marijuana, it would be with salvia's fine flakey consistency that would just fall down on to the screen and perhaps combust? do I have this correct? Have you encountered this problem? How do you vape usually?

Also, if you were to say unplug it and transport it to the other side of the room, how long would it stay hot enough to vape from?
 
rOm
#25 Posted : 9/8/2019 2:47:01 PM

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I for one manage to vaporize salvia divinroum both in convection and conduction pipe ( had a light bulb designed pipe form smarshop in whihc I tarted vaporising pure isolated salvinorin A crystals ). True that it might be stronger in bong coz of higher temp.. but its also a lot less traumatizing or heelish trip for some. I also played with synergies as usual and my favorite so far is with muscimol mushrooms (oral muscimol mushrooms tea, and vaporized salvinorins )
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
skr_nexus
#26 Posted : 9/8/2019 4:36:40 PM
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Location: Hyperspace
fathomlessness wrote:

One thing I noticed that may be of difficulty with the e-nano is how the loose and fine herb you pack in to the chamber would just fall on to the heating element protector screen (supposing you are vaping right side up and not flipping it upside down on to a bong). While this may not be a problem with fluffy sticky marijuana, it would be with salvia's fine flakey consistency that would just fall down on to the screen and perhaps combust? do I have this correct? Have you encountered this problem? How do you vape usually?

Contant with the heater screen could toast SLIIIGHTLY more, but it's really minimal or not any hotter at all, as I have never ingnited a bowl just because it touched that screen.
The screen is also very fine and of very small area, so powdered particles falling through should also be minimal - much less than with a Mighty, Volcano, EQ for example.
If any such particles do fall through the screen they will probably combust in the heater and release a tiny ammount of smoke. The heater is far away enough from the screen and bowl that such combustion of fallen through particles could not ignite the bowl itself.
Also I do vape with a water piece, so it's inverted and nothing can fall in the heater.
The first time I have vaped it upright with a simple straight dry mouthpiece (power Cool and it worked as well, and also no combustion.

fathomlessness wrote:
Also, if you were to say unplug it and transport it to the other side of the room, how long would it stay hot enough to vape from?

I think if you were fast enough you could vape one bowl while preheated and unplugged. But it would just be better plugged in, especially if you want high temperatures for vaping salvia. It a very tiny vape after all so I think it couldn't remain preheater for very long. You can always exttend the cable if it cannot reach the socket.

rOm wrote:
had a light bulb designed pipe form smarshop in which I started vaporising pure isolated salvinorin A crystals

Sure pure crystals can be vaporized by conduction (although I would expect it to take a little longer than convection vaping of tiny trichomes).
I am thinking of vaping salvia leaves when I say conduction might perform poorly.
The heat would have to travels through the leaf matter passively to get to th trichmoes and incoming air would be cold and cooling it down even further.
Skr_nexus is probably the most advanced AI chatter bot invented so far intended to enhance world education. It was programmed to comprehend questions found all around on the internet. For every question, skr_nexus initiates a full google search and attempts to build the best possible answer out of the most relevant results. Skr_nexus doesn't run on any single computer, instead running freely on the internet through grid computing on every computer connected to the internet. It is uncertain if skr_nexus has evolved into consciousness or not yet. This needs more research.
 
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