Hi @all,

I'm fairly new to the spice and I experienced already a lot in hyperspace. Nevertheless until now, no real breakthrough.
However, I've heard and noticed, that a lot of explorers suddenly stop using it.
Of cause I know, that over time every "toy" is getting boring, even with all these possibilities of the spice.
Or sometimes it might also be just too much, what is happening on the journey, that people are (understandably) scared of it.

But are there other reasons?

best regards

the-flying-d

That one is actually an Alan Watts quote.

I don't really know any spice explorers that have completely given it up. Certainly it seems a trend that people significantly decrease their use. This is for a variety of reasons, we get older and stack up more life demands, people find other hobbies and interests (like gardening ), often people will gravitate to working with ayahuasca or mushrooms for the more gentle and prolonged entry. Also, yeah it's intense, while it can be useful to experience full ontology shattering dissolution once in a while, doing so every weekend tends to be fairly counter productive to most "real world" pursuits.

I think this bespeaks successful integration. After you get through the honeymoon period, you begin to really understand the implications of that GVG case in your drawer and you realize there is no hurry. Hyperspace isn't going anywhere, the mystery is always just a toke away. Living a beneficial and rewarding life in light of that little fact is real practice imo.

I've never discarded a phone after one conversation. I always have it around.
Sometimes we need to be reminded what was said.

I think alot of folks try it and fear literal madness. Finding out the universe is far more than your ordinary five senses can perceive is terrifying to some people and just a glimpse of this is more than enough for them. Intellectual curiosity is my impetus, but I can understand simply not wanting to know more once you take the 101 course, it really is overwhelming.
I've always felt that the changes caused by the psychedelic experience are permanent, once you've seen it, then it cannot be unseen. Sometimes I think that once is all a person needs, they will always carry that little secret with them even if they never experience it again. They've upgraded to a higher bandwidth, for lack of a better term, and even if they don't use it, it will always be there.

I've been fortunate to try a slew of psychs, phens and trypts. DMT is by far the apex psych for me, and my peers. Nothing else comes close. Pharmahuasca is the way to better integrate the otherwise intense experience into something introspectively pragmatic.

each psychedelic takes you to the same place. some just happen to do it more impressively.
pharma was comparable, but more euphoric, than my phenethylamine favorite, 2-CT-7.

then again, I don't do DMT very often.

I know there is always a lot more to see, but I feel like Ive seen enough for the time being. Thats how the obsession with hyperspace came to a pause. There are growths that have to ocurr in life before you can continue to grow in hyperspace, I feel in my experience with DMT. If I continue in my expeditions, which I might cause I do love it, like really love it, not like people say they love pizza...I would do Ayahuasca, not smoalk.

I think the risk-reward scales tip at a certain point for a lot of people. Once you've got the gist of what it's all about, had your fill of pretty perceptions, what is the point of going back again and again? You don't get anything more out of it past a certain point. The need to keep on diving back in with psychedelics I think speaks to an impulse in people who want help but don't want to help themselves, just yet.

Relevant thread:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=30533


Regarding the whole "hang up the phone when you receive the message".. In line with what Benz was saying: who's to say that the message is always the same? And does that mean just because you received one message you wont ever touch the phone again? Maybe you call a different person, or maybe in the future the same person has a different message? Or maybe it's been a while and you forgot the message?

That being said, I think you have to listen to the experience. If you are getting negative experiences, at least take a break and dedicate to other things in life you might be neglecting. There's a lot more to life that deserves our full attention.

Its been a long time since I smoked DMT, I personally find ayahuasca/oral psychedelics lend themselves better to self-development, gaining insights and integrating the experiences. So if I take anything, it's probably ayahuasca, mescaline or mushrooms, once in a while. That being said, I likely will smoke DMT again in the future, though rarely, once in a blue moon. It's normal to have a honeymoon phase in the beginning and that should naturally taper off.

And if you decide that you don't want to take psychedelics ever again (or at least not for the foreseeable future), then by all means, follow your feelings! You shouldn't ever feel forced to take these substances.

In the tradition of the Greater Eleusinian Mystery participants were only allowed to participate once in their lifetime. However most “priestly” psychedelic traditions required regular “sessions” as it was their role to commune with the spirit/s or god/s.

The fear of “madness” (or rather permanent psychosis) is well justified - to which I can testify tragic evidence. On this subject I would warn of the SIGNIFICANT DANGER of using psychedelics with paranoia inducing substances, such as amphetamines and cocaine (and for those that are susceptible, cannabis also). Regular use of psychedelics, which have neuro-genic properties, along with paranoia inducing substances comes with a significant risk of rewiring your brain for permanent paranoid psychosis.

Based on my research it seems that regular sub-breakthrough use of psychedelics especially in a “recreational” context carries the greatest risk with such substances.

Very much this ^.

When the responsibility of having kids comes along it’s time to hang up your explorers kit (for a while at least) - there is a need to be in an alert problem solving state in order to protect your children.

Personally it’s been 13 years since I became a father, and have not done any psychedelics in that time. However, recently.... tbc

I respectfully disagree. In my case psychelics have helped me be a much better father by helping me see how amazing miracles my kiddos are and being deeply grateful for them. Before psychelics I would rather have a beer and watch some stupid TV than be with my kids. After psychedelics I became their favorite sorry teller at night (as an example).

I think you’ve misconstrued me. I wasn’t stating that doing psychedelics makes you a bad parent - what I was expressing was that the process of becoming a parent compels people to quit taking them because of the above perception.

Let me put it like this; do you think it’s a good idea to eat 5g of mushrooms while you’re on your own with a 6 month old baby?

HOWEVER, as indicated by you, the ability of psychedelics to open your mind up to the infinite beauty and love in the universe surely must have beneficial potential to help one grow and become a better parent.

FWIW IMHO alcohol is a awful drug compared to psychedelics, if you have children or not (that said, I will be downing pints in just under an hour while I watch to footie down the pub)

I've also had way less time and energy to take psychedelics since my son was born, but the selected few times I have taken them, it's been amazing. As Loveall said, to see what a miracle they are, it just gives you a whole new level of appreciation to just be with them.

What message?

I don't have much experience with smoked / vaped DMT, but with Ayahuasca, the teachings unfold over time, only as much at a time as you can integrate. The more years I've been drinking, the greater the Great Mystery appears to be.

As a younger man I went through a few phases of doing mushrooms every weekend for months at a time. It lost its luster and after awhile started to feel like something that I was just doing as a routine. The rewards became less and less. The likelihood of bad trips increased and I kept having to push the dose higher and higher to feel like there was something new or exciting to experience.

Now that I'm a little older, my life is very different. Lots more responsibilities and commitments, etc. These days I'm totally focussed on cactus, and I trip every solstice and equinox. That gives me 4 times a year where I know I will trip for sure. If the need is pressing in between those 4 times then I will listen and partake as needed, but its been fairly rare for that to happen. I trip at night, basically because its the only time that I can do it without being disturbed. It sucks to lose a night of sleep, but only a few times a year is managable. I have a routine or "ceremony" that helps to make the experience feel sacred and meaningful.

Everyone is different, and maybe for some people it is best to "hang up the phone" after a certain point. But I find that there is SO MUCH to learn. No one ever figures it all out. Everyone can benefit from new insight. I also view the cactus as a supplement that is improving the health of my brain. I find a lot of benefit from continuing to go back to the cactus. I dont think that I will ever stop, but only time will tell how it all turns out.

Part of the problem is that Western culture has been whitewashed by Christianity and authoritarian governments. The context for how to use psychedelics responsibly has been lost. In much of the world the ancient constructs and traditions that gave meaning to psychedelic usage have been lost. Most of us are "lone wolves" trying to re-create new constructs, ceremonies, and ways to find meaning with psychedelics. Each "lone wolf" finds his or her own path. Sometimes those paths are rich in meaning and benefit. But sometimes they are not. There are no easy answers or guarentees. It takes thought and effort and time. Not everyone will continue on the path or find ways to utilize these tools in ways that are satisfying and beneficial. Its not for everyone.

Thank you for sharing. That calms me down

I think that the "hang up the phone" belongs to the wrong use of these sacred medicines. This use is not motivated by self-development, but rather by lust. With that approach it is inevitable to exhaust the drug (or rather its potential within our existence) and it cuts itself off. Hanging the phone before the other side does can diminish the negative impact. But it doesn't mean we won, even when we manage to do that. Nonetheless, I doubt anyone manages to hang up first when the call is interesting.

I believe correct use leads to timely unrestricted usage when the potential is not decreasing, but rather increasing. It usually demands acceptance of negative experiences and ability to listen to our higher self.

What is the basis for this belief though? It seems like a very loose psychology that posits in advance that one requires endless sessions (much like regular psychology) because one has defects, darkness, that has to be resolved.. what is the basis for that, where is the end point?

To me that approach is the one motivated by lust and not self-development. If it's not, then where are all the super healthy humans, enlightened individuals etc, within the psychonaut community?

Taking a break once in a while is realy helpfull.

I believe psychedelics merely have the purpose to help us function in the "real world". Just like travelling or taking a vacation. If you are on a vacation all the time, it no longer is a vacation, isn't it? And what are you contributing then, to the lives of everyone else, if you're on vacation all the time?

Sometimes the "real world" calls and needs you. You get kids and become a parent, or you get a new job with a lot of responsibilities, or there are people depending on you for other reasons. Or any combination of these things.

And most of these things are important, and very often they are great. Realy great.
The things that give life meaning.

Because, no matter how great psychedelics are, they are not that. They are not the things that give life meaning. They are only tools to help us find or experience that meaning.
But the meaning itself is in things like the relationships you have with people.

So that's how i see it. The real things, like other people, always come first. If you have the time and the energy (important) left to do psychedelics, that's nice. But that's just not always the case, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

xxs27, regarding that dichotomy. I think of it like walking on a slackline. Life is, imo, all about finding balance and harmony in your path. But balance isnt a fixed state of 50% to the left and 50% to the right, when you walk a slackline your weight is sometimes 60% left 40% right, then you compensate and maybe go 35% left 65% right, and so on. So while you are still walking the line (e.g. living), you arent static and you can always learn and do better to find that balance and harmony (and similarly, psychedelics can potentially give you new messages that can help with each new state).

While perfection is great to strive for, im very skeptical that we can ever reach it while alive. It's the path towards it, the endless spiral of self development with novel problems and solutions every corner, its the dynamic finding of balance, and very importantly, the appreciation and enjoyment of that path, independent of a final state or end point.

Dragonrider, very well said.