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Nauseating and non-nauseating crude DMT plant teas Options
 
Jagube
#1 Posted : 8/19/2019 1:58:50 PM

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I've found an Ecuadorian chali strain that's pure bliss, no nausea, and this is the only one I want to work with. It's like pure DMT, but better, richer.
Other chali strains, Ecuadorian, Peruvian or Colombian give me nausea and I don't know what to do with the nauseating batch I have, I guess I'll have to mix it in in small amounts (a ratio of 4:1 of good leaf to bad leaf is still good) or extract it.

The same with chacruna. Some chacruna is amazing, other is nauseating even at light doses where my mind doesn't venture far.

ACRB I find very nauseating, at least my current batch. This can only be extracted, as drinking it is not viable and it has a quality to it I don't like (possibly due to NMT content?)

What is it that makes some plants nauseating? Is it additional alkaloids? Or other plant stuff like tannins or oils?
 

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ShamensStamen
#2 Posted : 8/19/2019 7:02:08 PM
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If you can get ahold of Moclobemide, maybe try that and see if those things are still nauseating? I've found, that even with the tannins in Mimosa or Acacia root, when using Moclobemide, i have no nausea or vomiting, since it's the Harmalas that causes the nausea/vomiting. But, when using Harmalas, the tannins and plant gunk can contribute to the nausea/vomiting.
 
tregar
#3 Posted : 8/19/2019 9:10:18 PM

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I definately get nauseated when the psychotria dose is large, but when kept low to moderate, the experience is quite pleasant. Taking low amounts of leaf is great anyways, as it puts the focus on the healing and visionary properties of the caapi...which is where it's really at. She (caapi) is the master teacher. The marriage of the two is perfect of course.

 
Jagube
#4 Posted : 8/19/2019 10:01:21 PM

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Thanks guys. I have reservations against Moclobemide and it's not that easily available to me anyway. I like to have harmine and THH in my brew, otherwise it won't be like ayahuasca.

I think I'll stick to my non-nauseating chali, which I can go very deep with without any discomfort.
Perhaps there is still a level above which it would be uncomfortable, but it's high enough that it's not an issue.
 
ShamensStamen
#5 Posted : 8/19/2019 11:27:51 PM
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Moclobemide is just fine, nothing to be afraid of, is as safe as Harmalas. I myself prefer Harmalas too over Moclobemide, but Moclobemide has had it's interesting moments in being able to activate the DMT-containing plant without the side-effects that can occur with Harmalas. You're right though, the Harmalas are what makes it Aya, i haven't needed THH, i use Rue and Rue extract and purified Harmala extract, gotten plenty of Aya effects out of it, different plant, same technology as Caapi and capable of the same things in my experience, but the Harmalas are indeed what makes Aya, Aya. Oral DMT with Moclobemide is just oral DMT or orally active Mimosa/Acacia/Chacruna/Chaliponga, but definitely worthy of experimentation if you can get ahold of it. I live in the US so it's not available for prescription here so i buy mine online.

Also you may try like using different acids when making a DMT-containing tea as i've read that like DMT Citrate for example or DMT Phosphate may be easier on the stomach.
 
tregar
#6 Posted : 8/20/2019 12:14:05 AM

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Just the other week I had closed eye visions in dreams of archaic stone temples in religious settings, these were places of great spiritual importance...it blew me away. The caapi amount was strong but the leaf was low. Undescribable beautiful, the visions were...I will never forget...and it was not nauseating at all.

For about 45 minutes, the visionary sequences are intense.
 
endlessness
#7 Posted : 8/20/2019 12:30:55 AM

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tregar wrote:
Just the other week I had closed eye visions in dreams of archaic stone temples in religious settings, these were places of great spiritual importance...it blew me away. The caapi amount was strong but the leaf was low. Undescribable beautiful, the visions were...I will never forget...and it was not nauseating at all.


I can totally relate Smile

As for OP's question, I've found that nausea is not totally predictable, but you can help reduce the possibility/intensity of it. Part of nausea could be serotonin-signalling in the gut, could be response to tannins, could be like a "poison-response" of the body, could be some "spiritual cleansing", who knows. It could be a mix of any of those... Even the same batch can give nausea sometimes and other times not, or be different for different people.

By taking pure extracts and ginger, you reduce the possibility of nausea, but it can still happen. Also, taking pure extracts might mean you miss out on other beneficial substances in crude aqueous extracts.

I think its not a big deal and if it comes, it comes, so be it. It can even be a helpful reminder of one's weaknesses and mortality. Any unpleasantness of such kind is imo a small price to pay for such amazing experiences.
 
Jagube
#8 Posted : 8/21/2019 10:58:50 AM

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IME it's rather predictable and tea- dependent.

For example, I've sat in a ceremony with two teas made with chaliponga from Ecuador, but from different sources. One tea was visual and blissful for everyone, the other one was a physical ordeal for everyone. The vine component was the same in both teas.

Later on I drank half the dose of the 'bad' leaf, with the same dose of vine, and still got severe nausea.

endlessness wrote:
I think its not a big deal and if it comes, it comes, so be it. It can even be a helpful reminder of one's weaknesses and mortality. Any unpleasantness of such kind is imo a small price to pay for such amazing experiences.

It can be a big deal, e.g. it may deter people from drinking and benefiting. At the same time it can bring one to a place of genuine humility, which one might never experience until death or severe illness. It's good to be reminded of one's mortality once in a while, but to be reminded e.g. on a weekly basis may seem superfluous.

When it happens to me, it feels like the worst thing that could ever happen to a person. We're hardwired to seek physical comfort. Physical discomfort, such as that sometimes induced by these plant concoctions, is the epitome of the "Oh no, something's very wrong / I'm dying" signal.

ShamensStamen wrote:
You're right though, the Harmalas are what makes it Aya, i haven't needed THH, i use Rue and Rue extract and purified Harmala extract, gotten plenty of Aya effects out of it, different plant, same technology as Caapi and capable of the same things in my experience

THH adds a long-lasting, beautiful afterglow, which I don't experience so much with just harmine. With moclobemide I'm assuming this effect (among others) would be missing.
 
ShamensStamen
#9 Posted : 8/21/2019 7:44:13 PM
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Jagube, i get an long lasting beautiful afterglow using Rue seed, and Rue full spectrum extract, i don't care much for pure Harmine or pure Harmine/Harmaline extracts. But yeah, Moclobemide is purely an MAO-A inhibitor that can be used to orally activate DMT, but unlike Harmalas, doesn't cause purgative effects. I personally haven't found THH to be necessary.
 
twitchy
#10 Posted : 8/28/2019 5:27:20 AM

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Have you tried lemon essential oil? The only time I didn't purge on a brew was the one time I went kind of heavy with the lemon oil. It's supposed to shut down the receptors that cause the nausea when the tryptamines hit the gut, and it actually seemed to work. It's not entirely pleasant to ingest but not so bad when compared to rue...
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ShamensStamen
#11 Posted : 8/28/2019 8:46:26 AM
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twitchy wrote:
Have you tried lemon essential oil? The only time I didn't purge on a brew was the one time I went kind of heavy with the lemon oil. It's supposed to shut down the receptors that cause the nausea when the tryptamines hit the gut, and it actually seemed to work. It's not entirely pleasant to ingest but not so bad when compared to rue...


It's the Limonene content in the Lemon EO, it gets digestion moving forwards, at least ime, i've experimented with pure Limonene taking 10 to 20 drops a day, encapsulated. Encapsulate the oil/terpenes, don't drink them if you can help it lol, but yeah it's the Limonene i'm pretty certain. I've tried pure Limonene, pure Alpha-Pinene (both kinds, the GABAergic and the Cholinergic variety), Beta-Pinene, Myrcene, Linalool, and i notice the digestive effect coming from the Limonene, it just seems to get digestion moving forwards and so it tends to counteract the purgative effects and digestive discomfort that Rue/Harmalas can cause. It's not the DMT that causes the nausea/vomiting, as evidenced by combining it with Moclobemide instead of using Harmalas, it's the Harmalas and that's evident by the fact that a heavy dosage of Harmalas can cause you to purge, but when taking a dosage of Harmalas on their own that wouldn't usually cause you to purge, mixing that with the DMT or even Psilocin can cause the Harmala's purgative effects to come out, similar to how Cannabis or Tobacco brings out certain aspects of the Harmalas you usually wouldn't feel, the Tryptamines themselves don't seem to really trigger vomiting on their own, but when combined with Harmalas can trigger the Harmala's purgative effects.

Probiotics also seem to help ime, with the Harmala's gastrointestinal distress, primarily i think because it helps to get digestion going, which i can feel happen from probiotics, as well as from Limonene, probiotics may also help release trapped gas and help with bloating, and potentially reduce inflammation, but i think it's getting the digestion going forwards that really helps.
 
Jagube
#12 Posted : 8/28/2019 3:43:46 PM

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Never tried lemon EO, but next time I get nauseous I'll make some ginger tea.

There seem to be many variables here.

I don't get nausea from harmalas, and I don't get nausea from the chali leaf I'm working with these days (with harmalas or caapi), no matter how strong. That's why I like it so much, I can go deep into the spirit realm without any nausea.

So it's definitely not the harmalas and not DMT that cause the nausea. I suspect it's something in the plants. ACRB gives me terrible nausea, some chaliponga is off the charts while some other is pure bliss, chacruna varies but is usually not too nauseating.

Then B. muricata can be a bit more nauseating than B. caapi.
 
 
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