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16 months of Kratom usage - lessons and observations Options
 
Nydex
#1 Posted : 8/17/2019 2:00:39 PM

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Time has flown past me at high speed indeed. 16 months have passed since a kilogram of Green Maeng Da kratom found its way to me. My intentions with it were never to be fully submerged into the opioid deep waters characteristic of higher doses of this plant. My aim always was to get just a little bit of the opiate buzz, but some of the energizing, focus-enhancing and revitalizing stuff too.

In the first several months my doses were in the 2-3 grams range. The effects were amazing, and I quickly fell in love with the plant. Gradually over time, tolerance built up and my desirable dose rose to ~8 grams. Currently, I take around 8.4 grams every other day and I have to say the charm of kratom has been dulled quite a lot, which is to be expected with such high frequency of usage (approximately 20 days a week).

Some people were warning me of potential negative health effects, and rightfully so, but thankfully I haven't experienced any negative side effects of kratom. The only time I really disliked it was in combination with yerba mate (Ilex paraguariensis) tea. Something in their interaction made me feel like I've had a lighter food poisoning - intense headache and slight nausea that held on for upwards of 6 hours. Other than that, kratom has been gentle upon my body and mind.

I've taken what I needed to take from it. I used it so frequently only to cope with the utterly unsatisfying work environment I had enslaved myself to in order to save up enough money for my upcoming journey to Peru. And it worked like a charm. It made many of the usually unbearable days quite pleasant or at least bearable. Now that I'm at the final 100 grams I decided it's time to share my opinion of it.

Do I regret taking kratom - absolutely not.
Would I recommend kratom to everyone - absolutely yes.

Overall it's a beautiful plant that has saved people from opioid addiction, and I can see why. It just gives you this all-encompassing, warm, positive vibe over the body and mind, and takes you to nice places and emotions.

That being said, please use the substance respectfully and responsibly. It is a powerful tool that can also be dangerous. Be very careful when combining it with other stuff, even usually dangerless things like tea.

Be well, friends. Love you all. Love
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
Quote:
O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 

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Mindlusion
#2 Posted : 8/17/2019 2:43:53 PM

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Arguably the most desirable, as well as sinister effect of kratom and opioids in general is the effect they bring which results in a feeling: 'Content with doing nothing.'

This is absolutely desirable effect to have if say, you are working a menial hard labor job, and you just desire to get through the day so you get to go home, and get paid.

But this effect becomes very damaging when instead, you are focusing on career based work. If say, you are working for yourself, you must set your own deadlines, and an optimal upward trajectory requires careful planning and strong motivation, especially if this same work genuinely makes you happy!

Then this same effect of kratom is very sinister indeed, because no longer you will get the reward circuitry for self-motivated work, and you become more and more content with procrastinating, day after day.

I've had experience with this over the past year, for the past month I haven't touched it, sitting in a drawer, but honestly I would like to get I rid of it because its easy to start taking it again. The reason I got into it in the first place, just to cope with chronic fatigue, and as an alternative to amphetamine stimulants. This was effective in the short term, but the 'content with doing nothing' quickly catches up.

Instead, after too long, I found the simple solution to most of my problems. Prioritize sleep. After going to bed at 10pm on a regular basis, getting at least 7-8 hours of quality sleep per night (8-9 if waking up at night) after a couple weeks of this (it took that long) the fatigue has vanished and my mood and motivation has improved! Fancy that.

I highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/W...ams-ebook/dp/B06ZZ1YGJ5

and the author was featured on joe rogan, great podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig

Kratom, or opioids, more or less, a means to an end. If I were in the former position, most certainly I would probably take kratom to get through the dullness of each day, just to make the time pass. But for the latter? Absolutely not. There is no reason to, especially if that same work is rewarding to you of itself, and the only effects kratom bring in that case are damaging, the cons far outweigh the pros.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
Nydex
#3 Posted : 8/17/2019 3:07:45 PM

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Mindlusion wrote:
Then this same effect of kratom is very sinister indeed, because no longer you will get the reward circuitry for self-motivated work, and you become more and more content with procrastinating, day after day.


I could not agree more my friend! Using kratom is thin ice to walk on if you need to manage your time and workload efficiently. But I do believe to a certain extent that it highly depends on the person. Some people are more inclined to procrastinate, others are more inclined to keep themselves occupied instead of just being lazy, and I doubt kratom has the power to change that in everyone. For some, it surely will, but not all. That's why I advised people the rather obvious "use it responsibly" Very happy

And believe it or not, as soon as you started talking about sleep I immediately thought "oh, this is a nice place and time to recommend Matthew Walker", and a few lines later you did that same thing.

It took me by complete surprise how strong of an effect this JRE podcast episode had on me. Before it, I usually got around 6hrs of sleep at most. After it, I strive for no less than 8, and I gotta say the effects are dramatic and easily observable.

Nowadays I always prioritize sleep and never take away from it unless it's absolutely necessary. I would also like to highly recommend this podcast to everyone. Haven't looked into the book, but money is very short now that I'm saving up everything I can, so if I can get my hands on it for free (even though it's not a good thing to do, and I'm not proud of it) I would. If not, I'll stick to the info Matthew gave in that interview.

Cheers! Thumbs up
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
Quote:
O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 
FranLover
#4 Posted : 8/17/2019 4:41:09 PM

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Cool! Good read =) I wouldnt use it personally cause Im addicted to nicotine, cannabis, and sugar--I'm not gonna add kratom to the mix! Ive learned my lesson xD
Todo lo que quiero es que me recuerdes siempre así...amándote. Mantay kuna kayadidididi~~Ayahuasca shamudididi. Silence ○ Shiva ◇ eternal Purusha.
What we have done is establish the rule of authority in silence. Silence is the administrator of the universe. In silence is the script of Natural Law, eternally guiding the destiny of everyone. The Joy of Giving See the job. Do the job. Stay out of the misery.
May this world be established with a sense of well-being and happiness. May all beings in all worlds be blessed with peace, contentment, and freedom.
This mass of stress visible in the here & now has sensuality for its reason, sensuality for its source, sensuality for its cause, the reason being simply sensuality.
 
Tony6Strings
#5 Posted : 8/17/2019 5:22:17 PM

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Mindlusion, your "content with doing nothing" analogy is right on. I've been a patient at the clinic for going on six years now. Sometimes I feel like the constant blanket of feeling nothing at all robs me of some of the enjoyment of being a human being.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Felnik
#6 Posted : 8/18/2019 6:50:51 AM

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Its interesting, myself and a few musician friends have been experimenting with Kratom and finding some different results than what some of you are describing. We love it for practicing our instruments. It allows for a more fixative kind of practice than usual. This is especially valuable for super technical practice working out fingerings on piano or drum rudiments etc. I notice for myself it gives me more endurance to stay with certain difficult repetitive exercises. I can stay on a problem longer and work out the details. Hearing music is also improved as well.
Maybe its the dose, I've always tried to keep it as low as possible to feel the effects.
Also I only go a few days in a row then lay off it in between. Also not taking it too late in the day or night because it does effect sleep sometimes. I'm not so sure its the
do-nothing kind of drug your describing. I've found that it pairs well with getting things done and not necessarily a do-nothing couch potato groove. I guess it depends on the dose the strain and the frequency of use. I think under the right conditions it can be a good thing. I think it has a few layers to it one of course is the improved mood for sure.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Arthur C. Clarke


http://vimeo.com/32001208
 
Mindlusion
#7 Posted : 8/18/2019 6:18:35 PM

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Felnik wrote:

Its interesting, myself and a few musician friends have been experimenting with Kratom and finding some different results than what some of you are describing. We love it for practicing our instruments. It allows for a more fixative kind of practice than usual. This is especially valuable for super technical practice working out fingerings on piano or drum rudiments etc. I notice for myself it gives me more endurance to stay with certain difficult repetitive exercises. I can stay on a problem longer and work out the details. Hearing music is also improved as well.
Maybe its the dose, I've always tried to keep it as low as possible to feel the effects.
Also I only go a few days in a row then lay off it in between. Also not taking it too late in the day or night because it does effect sleep sometimes. I'm not so sure its the
do-nothing kind of drug your describing. I've found that it pairs well with getting things done and not necessarily a do-nothing couch potato groove. I guess it depends on the dose the strain and the frequency of use. I think under the right conditions it can be a good thing. I think it has a few layers to it one of course is the improved mood for sure.


In my experience, when i first started taking it, it vastly improved my concentration, well-being, and allowed me to become more invested and more interested in my work, all positives. Again I was only taking low doses as well, 2 or 3 capsules of kratom powder at most (1.5-2g).

I would typically try to do it only a couple days a week, but that turned into 4 and then 5 days a week, taking weekends off.

Over a period of months, the 'honeymoon' effects of kratom start to change.

Then, even after long periods of abstience, if I try to return to kratom, I end up right where I left off in less than a week. Even at low doses. It is as if I have become more sensitive to it, but mostly sensitive to the negative effects (this is common with most drugs of addiction). The tiredness, anhedonia, and depression I experience in the 3-5 days afterwards of only consuming 10g in the period of a week, is immense.

It's not a 'do nothing couch potato' thing, not at all. I do a lot of activities on kratom, I'm always occupied. It is much more subtle then that. It very slowly creeps in and takes away from you what you would typically enjoy. It is just that you become more content with doing whatever, even if you are not living up to your full potential.

I'm not really knocking kratom, I think it's really a useful plant. Certainly a better choice over traditional opioids, but its a serious trade-off in my experience. If I am in a place in my life, where there is not much upward trajectory for a certain time frame, combined with physical stress and mental boredom (like a miniumum wage job) I would probably take kratom. But then again, there are still negatives, because with the kratom in my system, I would be losing out on my free time at home as well. I would waste more of that time too, I'd be more content with relaxing, prone to activities like watching movies or playing games, instead of doing something I care about like writing or learning. But, with that sort of job its less of a risk in the long term essentially.

In the case where I am in the position to make the most out of my grand opportunities in life, it only leads me to squander more of those opportunities. I am prone to procrastination, with or without kratom, after all. I have a long history of addiction and other dopamine related dysfunctions, such as adhd, as long as I can remember. My dopamine circuitry, mesolimbic reward pathways certainly don't function like they should. So I might feel these negative effects (as well as the positive effects) more pronounced than the average person.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
Nydex
#8 Posted : 8/18/2019 8:23:05 PM

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Mindlusion wrote:
I would typically try to do it only a couple days a week, but that turned into 4 and then 5 days a week, taking weekends off.

Over a period of months, the 'honeymoon' effects of kratom start to change.

Then, even after long periods of abstience, if I try to return to kratom, I end up right where I left off in less than a week. Even at low doses. It is as if I have become more sensitive to it, but mostly sensitive to the negative effects (this is common with most drugs of addiction). The tiredness, anhedonia, and depression I experience in the 3-5 days afterwards of only consuming 10g in the period of a week, is immense.

I can absolutely relate and agree here. I haven't reached the point of depression or anything like that, but I absolutely agree that it takes an even shorter amount of time to reach that dullness of the experience again, even after longer breaks.

In a way, kratom loses its "shine" over time. In the beginning, it's literally amazing, but not forever. You are absolutely spot on with your description.

Mindlusion wrote:
with the kratom in my system, I would be losing out on my free time at home as well. I would waste more of that time too, I'd be more content with relaxing, prone to activities like watching movies or playing games, instead of doing something I care about like writing or learning

It's almost weird how accurate this is in my case. In the past I have allocated waaay more time to entertainment and stuff that don't directly relate to my passions or don't work me towards the necessary preparation for my journey. I think kratom played a big part in it. At numerous occasions I just felt like "fuck that", like I didn't want to be bothered with any truly meaningful activity. I chose playing games or watching nature documentaries over studying spanish and spending more time outdoors and engaging in sports activities.

I can't determine how much of the reason for that behavior was the kratom, and how much the feeling that I have just a little bit of time left to do whatever I want to do, and then when I arrive in Peru I'll have no choice but to focus on the important things that will make my life there easier. It's really hard to tell which had the more weight. But kratom definitely played a role.

Thanks for the insight man, appreciate it! Thumbs up
Break free from the chains of your beliefs. It is only then that you may find a moment of blissful stillness amidst the raging storm. Stay awhile and listen. The winds of truth shall fill your sails, and the oceans of hidden and long forgotten knowledge, ancient as the cosmos itself, will be yours to explore.
Quote:
O, supreme beings of the higher realms, allow me to venture into your dimensions. I come with love and with harmony. I bring no hatred and carry no malevolence in my soul. I come to learn and to grow. Show me your world and gift me some of your knowledge. Ask me, and I shall answer with honesty; hug me, and I shall hug you back; advise me, and I shall follow your wisdom. Heal me from my fear and give me insight. There is little I can offer back but my love and trust. O, supreme beings of the higher realms... I am yours.
 
Cactus Man
#9 Posted : 10/18/2019 11:46:12 PM
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Been using kratom for the better part of of the last 3-4 years. All I can say is it 100% beats H/pill/O addiction. But I don't recommend it as a recreational drug as I once did in the past.
 
 
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