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Separating 5-MeO-DMT from DMT Options
 
69ron
#1 Posted : 6/16/2008 11:35:51 PM

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5-MeO-DMT citrate is nearly insoluble in acetone, but DMT citrate is very soluble in acetone.

Here is the method recommended by SWIM to separate 5-MeO-DMT from DMT.

To separate the two, dissolve freebase 5-MeO-DMT and freebase DMT in a small amount of acetone, add 10% citric acid solution pre-dissolved in acetone, stir and 5-MeO-DMT citrate precipitates out of the acetone and the DMT citrate stays dissolved in the acetone along with the remaining excess citric acid.

Citrate Acetone Precipitation
Dissolve the mixed alkaloids in acetone. Add 10% citric acid solution (pre-dissolved in acetone). This causes a cloud to form. Continue adding the citric acid solution and precipitates start falling out of the acetone. Stop adding citric acid solution when no more precipitates form. The precipitates will contain the 5-MeO-DMT citrate (and 5-HO-DMT citrate if there was any). The acetone will contain DMT citrate. Pour off the acetone through a filter and wash the precipitates with acetone to obtain 5-MeO-DMT citrate. NOTE: Before vaporizing 5-MeO-DMT, it needs to be freebased.

To separate 5-MeO-DMT from 5-HO-DMT SWIM does the following during an A/B extraction before doing the Citrate Acetone Precipitation above:

Selective Solvent A/B Extraction
During the freebase phase of an A/B extraction, first extract the freebase DMT and 5-MeO-DMT with naphtha, heptane, xylene, or d-limonene. The freebase 5-HO-DMT will not get extracted because it’s insoluble in those solvents. You can then extract freebase 5-HO-DMT with DCM (dichloromethane), ether, or chloroform.

Comments
5-MeO-DMT is sort of a dissociative on it’s own. It doesn’t usually produce many visual effects. High doses usually cause one to experience “the void”. When vaporizing even small doses (2-10 mg) it can be terrifying for some people because the effects hit really fast (before you exhale). Probably the most pleasant method of using 5-MeO-DMT is sublingually as a salt. This way the trip is much less jolting. The peak gradually builds and the whole trip lasts longer. SWIM enjoys it much more this way, but not if freebase is used because it BURNS LIKE HELL. Instead 5-MeO-DMT fumarate is used sublingually. 5-MeO-DMT fumarate doesn’t burn. It’s mild and tastes like sour plastic. Just 5 mg under the tongue is enough for pretty good effects. There’s not much visuals and there are a lot of mental effects going on. It’s mentally very active and similar to LSD. There are some unusually sensations felt that are hard to describe. 5-MeO-DMT in some ways is like alcohol, in that you feel a little cloudy. At least this is how SWIM feels from it.

Once SWIM accidentally vaporized 20 mg of 5-MeO-DMT thinking it was DMT. It was an extremely frightening experience. There were very few visuals, mostly just visual distortions, but mentally nothing made any sense at all. SWIMs heart was racing. He had a hard time breathing. SWIM felt he had gone completely insane and was suffering brain damage. It was hard to make sense of anything at all. The experience was over in about 15 minutes and SWIM was so glad to be back to normal. SWIM does not enjoy high doses of 5-MeO-DMT, and most of his friends feel the same way. But small doses sublingually can be very nice.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

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rellik
#2 Posted : 6/19/2008 3:30:13 PM

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have you tried this tek with different acids such as phosphoric, etc.? thanks
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Garulfo
#3 Posted : 6/19/2008 5:49:03 PM

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Quote:
5-MeO-DMT is sublingually as a salt. This way the trip is much less jolting. The peak gradually builds and the whole trip lasts longer.


Good to know. Is'nt it requires any MAOI ? Could this works also with a citrate salt (much easier to find citric acid) ?

Also if 5Meo citrate works sublingualy, would it means that a simple acid extract from virola could do it ? That would be greatly simplier than going to extract a freebase then acidify again ?!!
 
69ron
#4 Posted : 6/19/2008 7:34:05 PM

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rellik wrote:
have you tried this tek with different acids such as phosphoric, etc.? thanks


All salts have different solubility profiles. It might work with another acid. It also might work with another solvent. SWIM never tried it with anything other than acetone and citric acid. It’s just a matter of trying different acids and solvent combinations until you find one that works.


Garulfo wrote:
Quote:
5-MeO-DMT is sublingually as a salt. This way the trip is much less jolting. The peak gradually builds and the whole trip lasts longer.


Good to know. Is'nt it requires any MAOI ? Could this works also with a citrate salt (much easier to find citric acid) ?


No MAOI is required to use 5-MeO-DMT sublingually. It works very well as is.

It is also said to work orally at much higher doses (like 30 mg +), but that never worked for SWIM. Maybe SWIM needs to try a larger dose.

Garulfo wrote:

Also if 5Meo citrate works sublingualy, would it means that a simple acid extract from virola could do it ? That would be greatly simplier than going to extract a freebase then acidify again ?!!


SWIM mixed freebase 5-MeO-DMT with citric acid and water and took it sublingually and found it works just as well as the freebase. It didn’t burn like the freebase does. It’s likely that any salt form is going to work sublingually.

The natives use a simple water extract with no acids. The extract is formed into pellets that are taken orally. I suspect that they let it sit in their mouth and it is actually absorbed sublingually. But SWIM never tried that so he can’t comment on that.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Entropymancer
#5 Posted : 6/30/2008 7:08:44 PM

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Quote:
5-MeO-DMT is sublingually as a salt. This way the trip is much less jolting. The peak gradually builds and the whole trip lasts longer.


This seems to be substantiated by the indications we have of traditional use of virola resin. It was described to R. E. Schultes by an indigenous group which had recently forgotten the use of the substance. They recalled the tree, and how to harvest the resin, and could remember seeing their fathers and grandfathers put this resin in their mouth. Consequently Schultes reported that the material was used orally. But of course the tribe had presumably tried it and not found it visionary. Jonathan Ott suggests that their recollections of their elders placing the resin in their mouths was correct, but the presumption that they swallowed it fallacious; through the oral mucosa, 5-MeO-DMT is apparently quite nice, according to the assays of SWI69 Ron and Jonathan Ott (in his Shamanic Snuffs book).

On a side-note: For anyone who hasn't seen it, Jonathan Ott's Pharmanopo article on the human effects of bufotenine by several routes of administration is an excellent read, and puts to rest the pervasive myth that bufotenine is a purely unpleasant adulterant (a notion which which seems to stem from the biossay reports of prisoners and mental patients being injected without any sort of consent, much less informed consent... and as the article and 69Ron note, injection is a rather unpleasant route of bufotenine administration)
 
drainlife20
#6 Posted : 9/8/2008 10:43:36 AM

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69ron wrote:
Once SWIM accidentally vaporized 20 mg of 5-MeO-DMT thinking it was DMT. It was an extremely frightening experience. There were very few visuals, mostly just visual distortions, but mentally nothing made any sense at all. SWIMs heart was racing. He had a hard time breathing. SWIM felt he had gone completely insane and was suffering brain damage. It was hard to make sense of anything at all. The experience was over in about 15 minutes and SWIM was so glad to be back to normal. SWIM does not enjoy high doses of 5-MeO-DMT, and most of his friends feel the same way. But small doses sublingually can be very nice.

SWIM is very much convinced that his source was strangely full of 5-MeO-DMT. Gonna separate and see. He seriously couldn't form one meaningful thought for about 30 minutes, it made no sense in the least, and is terribly difficult to explain. It just made no sense in the least. He felt as if he was drowning or something similar.
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flyboy
#7 Posted : 10/24/2008 12:05:33 AM
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Thus far I've tried smoking extracted dmt from chaliponga, and i've tried ordering from an rc, but i still have not gotten any 5meo effects Sad

Here goes again.

Ron, using the above teks, would you suggest i start with Chaliponga or Yopo or...?

How much would i need in order to end up with at least a few 100 mg of 5meo?

Also for the Bufo, what would i start with and how much to end up a few 100 mg?

 
69ron
#8 Posted : 10/24/2008 1:24:14 AM

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flyboy wrote:
Thus far I've tried smoking extracted dmt from chaliponga, and i've tried ordering from an rc, but i still have not gotten any 5meo effects Sad

Here goes again.

Ron, using the above teks, would you suggest i start with Chaliponga or Yopo or...?

How much would i need in order to end up with at least a few 100 mg of 5meo?

Also for the Bufo, what would i start with and how much to end up a few 100 mg?



Forget about Yopo, there’s usually almost no 5-MeO-DMT in it. It’s nearly all bufotenine.

Chaliponga is normally good and some Virola Resin is also good for 5-MeO-DMT.

The last batch of Virola Resin (not the bark) SWIM got contained about 0.5% 5-MeO-DMT, so about 20 grams would contain about 100 mg of 5-MeO-DMT.

Chaliponga contains less, about 0.3% 5-MeO-DMT. So for 100 mg of 5-MeO-DMT you’d need about 33 grams of Chaliponga.

Some people have had bad experiences with Chaliponga and Virola resin. It seems that not all vendors carry good stuff all the time.

Both plants usually contain 1-2 times as much DMT as 5-MeO-DMT. So if you smoke a mix, you’ll get effects that are DMT-ish. But if you use the mixed alkaloids sublingually, you’ll only get 5-MeO-DMT effects.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Infundibulum
#9 Posted : 12/1/2008 11:52:03 AM

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SWIM's FOAF is a bit sceptical. In two separate occasions he has found that dmt-citrate is either insoluble in acetone of just slightly soluble.

He has been unable to separate 5-meo from dmt using the current tek; When pure white dmt (as control) is dissolved in anhydrous acetone and when 10% citric acid acetone solution is added in the latter, clouds of precipitation readily form. This is clearly dmt citrate (forms a beautiful sticky goo when separated and dried and clearly not soluble.

SWIM's FOAF thinks that this tek needs amendment. He is now trying to determine the solubility of dmt citrate in acetone.

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
69ron
#10 Posted : 12/2/2008 2:55:32 AM

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You are right. Some DMT citrate precipitates, especially if there's not enough acetone. However, 5-MeO-DMT citrate precipitates first because it's less soluble in acetone. More work definitely needs to be done here.

SWIM has abandoned this tech for now.

A more reliable way to separate DMT from 5-MeO-DMT is through sublimation of the freebase compounds. Using sublimation, 100% isolation is easily possible.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Infundibulum
#11 Posted : 12/2/2008 12:55:58 PM

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Thanks for confirming that 69ron! It makes things much clearer in SWIM's mind.

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
Jorkest
#12 Posted : 12/14/2008 5:33:24 AM

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so how much acetone would be needed to make this work for say 200mg of chaliponga crystals? and then after the 5-meo drops out..could you then take that dmt citrate acetone and put FASA into it to precipitate the dmt?
it's a sound
 
Infundibulum
#13 Posted : 12/14/2008 4:11:03 PM

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Taking the solubility of dmt-citrate in the acetone (SWIM's FOAF found it to be ~4mg/ml acetone, which is pretty much very poorly soluble btw). One will need at least 1 litre of acetone if this tek works. <-EDIT: SWIM's FOAF is WRONG , one won't need as much

That is, for the case in which 200mg freebase of chali extract are all dmt, they will convert to 268mg dmt citrate. If you want to keep that dissolved and not precipitating at least 1 litre of acetone is required. If LESS acetone for the amount in question is used, then dmt-citrate will precipitate ALONG with any 5-meo citrate. <-EDIT: Jorkest correction: One would need 64ml acetone, not 1 litre!, so things are doable.

In SWIM's FOAF opinion this tek is not so straightforward to use. He had problems getting false positives (i.e. dissolving his chali extract in a small amount of acetone then adding the citric acid and getting dmt-citrate precipitation instead of/along with 5-meo citrate precipitation).

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
Jorkest
#14 Posted : 12/14/2008 5:14:14 PM

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for 268mg spice citrate you would need a litre!? if a ml can hold 4mg then you could use 67ml of acetone right? or am i completely off on something?
it's a sound
 
Infundibulum
#15 Posted : 12/14/2008 7:12:33 PM

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Holy crap, you're totally right.

I'm retarded, I'll edit the post

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
The Traveler
#16 Posted : 3/22/2009 6:30:53 PM

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This tek has been added to the Wiki:

Separating 5-MeO-DMT from DMT


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
damiana
#17 Posted : 3/23/2009 1:44:52 AM

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i thought this tek didn't work.
PEACE
 
The Traveler
#18 Posted : 3/23/2009 8:12:03 AM

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damiana wrote:
i thought this tek didn't work.


I see now, next time I have to read more into the topic. Thank you for warning me.

I've added a warning at the wiki page that this tek may not work. Maybe 69ron can resolve this?


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
69ron
#19 Posted : 3/23/2009 8:16:32 AM

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Sorry, I abandoned this tech. SWIM got inconsistent results from it many times and couldn't figure out why.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
Ginkgo
#20 Posted : 10/20/2011 7:46:09 PM

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Ok if this tek doesn't work, then do we have any other feasible way of separating DMT from 5-MeO-DMT?
 
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