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10 year old spore prints? Options
 
jbark
Senior Member
#1 Posted : 10/17/2018 6:37:19 PM
I have many jars of 10 yr old spore prints from my own homegrown mushrooms, properly and hermetically sealed (in ziplock inside IPS cleaned mason jars) but with some temperature variation (+-5C) stored in the dark.

Viable? Anyone have any thoughts?

I just made 3 spore syringes (F+, Golden teacher and Mazapatec) and I am looking for reassurance from those experienced with old spores before I jump into the next process (PFtek in this case.)

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
dreamer042
Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless
#2 Posted : 10/17/2018 7:07:06 PM
I haven't tried decade old prints, but 5-6 year old ones performed fine for me, and considering the storage conditions, I don't expect you'll run into any trouble.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

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downwardsfromzero
Chemical expertSenior Member
#3 Posted : 10/17/2018 9:27:34 PM
Rehydration of the spores may become an issue once they get that old. Pressure - as in, an air pump - can be applied to expedite the process and this is said to improve the germination rate.

Cobbling something together with a pop bottle and a tyre valve should do the trick, to give a most basic outline.

It will be most interesting to see the outcome of your experiment.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
null24
#4 Posted : 10/17/2018 9:35:24 PM
downwardsfromzero wrote:
Rehydration of the spores may become an issue once they get that old. Pressure - as in, an air pump - can be applied to expedite the process and this is said to improve the germination rate.

Cobbling something together with a pop bottle and a tyre valve should do the trick, to give a most basic outline.

It will be most interesting to see the outcome of your experiment.

So apply pressure to a water suspension to push it through the cell walls? Like construct a chamber with the mentioned materials, make a spore-syringe suspension and then place that into the chamber and pump it up?
Could you maybe elaborate on that technique or lead to some construction/use links?
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
decrimART
 
dreamer042
Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless
#5 Posted : 10/17/2018 9:37:29 PM
Probably worth noting I scraped my dry prints/spores directly to agar, no syringes or attempts to rehydrate beforehand.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
downwardsfromzero
Chemical expertSenior Member
#6 Posted : 10/18/2018 4:12:48 AM
null24 wrote:

So apply pressure to a water suspension to push it through the cell walls? Like construct a chamber with the mentioned materials, make a spore-syringe suspension and then place that into the chamber and pump it up?
Could you maybe elaborate on that technique or lead to some construction/use links?

Fit a tyre valve into the cap of the plastic bottle. (Drill a 7mm hole into the bottle lid and fit the tyre valve, which you've recovered from a bicycle inner tube, through from the inside of the cap.)
Sterilise it all with alcohol or something.
Put spore suspension into bottle.
Close lid.
Pump with foot pump or whatever. (*Check what the safe working pressure of the bottle is, maybe deduct a bit for drilling a hole in the cap. Use a pump with a pressure gauge. Some thought is probably required as to how one might avoid airborne contamination entering the bottle.)
Leave for 20 mins.
Carefully release pressure.
Use spores as required.


Worth a try if your spores are over 7 years old, have been stored with a desiccant, and seem not to be germinating.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Spaced Out 2
#7 Posted : 10/18/2018 6:06:16 AM
I'm not sure, but I would think that it would require an extreme amount of pressure to compress the water enough to force rehydrate the spores.

Or does simply putting them in a syringe and putting the screw tip back on and pressing the plunger a bit to compress the spore solution then securing with tape or something work?.

Is the water itself just rehydrating the spores while they are suspended, instead of pressure playing a roll?

I'd try both ways, spore solution and agar, if they are viable something will germinate.
 
PsyDuckmonkey
#8 Posted : 10/18/2018 5:14:20 PM
I have recently ran a PF grow direct from a 4 year old spore print. The results were quite a bit worse than with a fresh print.

With fresh prints, I usually expect 100% success rate, large areas of hyphae germinating all over where the spore solution was soaked up inside the jar. With these older spores, the rate was more like 50%, and germination was more pinpoint-like in the successfully germinated jars as well.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
sauSage
Senior Member
#9 Posted : 10/18/2018 7:23:44 PM
PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
I have recently ran a PF grow direct from a 4 year old spore print. The results were quite a bit worse than with a fresh print.


Then your print wasn't' stored properly. I have a set of 7 year old Golden Teacher prints that I know are good. When stored properly (contaminant and moisture free) spore prints can literally last forever.

Search Shroomery, there are plenty of threads about people finding prints and the growing them out.

ps
"The brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness" - A Huxley

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" – Ralph Waldo Emerson…

"Whatever you study you also change" - Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
 
null24
#10 Posted : 10/18/2018 7:35:59 PM
paulsage wrote:
PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
I have recently ran a PF grow direct from a 4 year old spore print. The results were quite a bit worse than with a fresh print.


Then your print wasn't' stored properly. I have a set of 7 year old Golden Teacher prints that I know are good. When stored properly (contaminant and moisture free) spore prints can literally last forever.

Search Shroomery, there are plenty of threads about people finding prints and the growing them out.

ps

Do you have a go to technique for long term storage?

Sorry for the newb questions, but that's what i am. I'm just learning how to cultivate these wonderful little things now that i have space to do so.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
decrimART
 
sauSage
Senior Member
#11 Posted : 10/19/2018 8:16:29 PM
null24 wrote:
Do you have a go to technique for long term storage?

the method i use - lay your print on a piece of sanitized tin foil. make sure you have enough foil so that you can wrap it over the print and crimp the edges down. then store in a sealed mason jar in a cool place.

null24 wrote:
Sorry for the newb questions, but that's what i am. I'm just learning how to cultivate these wonderful little things now that i have space to do so.

never apologize for asking for help or direction. that's how you learn and avoid silly mistakes. Thumbs up

ps
"The brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness" - A Huxley

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" – Ralph Waldo Emerson…

"Whatever you study you also change" - Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
 
jbark
Senior Member
#12 Posted : 10/19/2018 11:42:23 PM
paulsage wrote:
null24 wrote:
Do you have a go to technique for long term storage?

the method i use - lay your print on a piece of sanitized tin foil. make sure you have enough foil so that you can wrap it over the print and crimp the edges down. then store in a sealed mason jar in a cool place.

null24 wrote:
Sorry for the newb questions, but that's what i am. I'm just learning how to cultivate these wonderful little things now that i have space to do so.

never apologize for asking for help or direction. that's how you learn and avoid silly mistakes. Thumbs up

ps


I did exactly that, but one step further - i put them in a sealed ziplock before putting them in the mason jats. I have about 2 dozen prints from half that number of strains.

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
jbark
Senior Member
#13 Posted : 10/20/2018 3:38:24 PM
dreamer042 wrote:
I haven't tried decade old prints, but 5-6 year old ones performed fine for me, and considering the storage conditions, I don't expect you'll run into any trouble.


Thanks dreamer042! Very reassuring. Obviously I decide to make a spore print instead og going the pasta/potato/agar direct route as we discussed in chat. Smile

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
jbark
Senior Member
#14 Posted : 10/30/2018 4:34:00 PM
so - 9th day and zero colonization... no bacterial or fungal invasions either, so at least I know my technique is good, from spore print to syringe to (improved) pf-tek.

I'll post here if and when something shows up.

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
jbark
Senior Member
#15 Posted : 11/5/2018 3:00:03 PM
Hmmm...

Day q5. Not one contam, but also zero mycelium... looks like these spore prints were fully UNviable. I will wait another few days before chucking them and starting over.

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
dreamer042
Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless
#16 Posted : 11/5/2018 3:36:52 PM
That is indeed unfortunate. It sounds like you did everything right as far as storage, etc. I suppose the shelf life on prints may not be as long as I was led to believe.

If you happen to have some of your prints left and are up for a quick experiment, I'd be curious to know if you get any germ scraping a bit directly onto an agar plate.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
downwardsfromzero
Chemical expertSenior Member
#17 Posted : 11/5/2018 7:53:28 PM
Those 10 y.o. prints would be worth using for an assessment of the pressure rehydration idea/technique, outlined above, before finally committing them to posterity.

What were they printed on?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
jbark
Senior Member
#18 Posted : 11/6/2018 7:25:56 PM
dreamer042 wrote:
That is indeed unfortunate. It sounds like you did everything right as far as storage, etc. I suppose the shelf life on prints may not be as long as I was led to believe.

If you happen to have some of your prints left and are up for a quick experiment, I'd be curious to know if you get any germ scraping a bit directly onto an agar plate.


I'd love to try that. First I got a hold of some fresher spores for a grow. Once I get that underway, I'll get some agar and try it out. I actually have one syringe left from my print to syringe transfer also.

I have about 10 prints left - everything from Mazapatec to F+, golden teacher to Orissa. I'll keep you posted, but for now I'll grow the teonanacatl from the reliable syringe I have procured.

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
jbark
Senior Member
#19 Posted : 11/6/2018 7:27:53 PM
downwardsfromzero wrote:
Rehydration of the spores may become an issue once they get that old. Pressure - as in, an air pump - can be applied to expedite the process and this is said to improve the germination rate.

Cobbling something together with a pop bottle and a tyre valve should do the trick, to give a most basic outline.

It will be most interesting to see the outcome of your experiment.



Where did you hear about this (and why would it be necessary...?) Very curious, but the process doesn't jibe with what I know about spores and mushrooms (which, admittedly, is relatively little Smile )

Cheers,

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
jbark
Senior Member
#20 Posted : 11/19/2018 3:48:08 PM
just a little update:

Day 29 and nothing - so (extremely) safe to say that the prints were not viable...

However, the 10 teonanacatl spawn jars are all colonizing with fluffy and very ropey mycelium, so all is good on that front.

And the good news is - no con tams AT ALL. Smile

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
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