Thanks for that summary-update, ohayoco. There has been a lot said, and its nice to put it all in one post.


The quote is directly from the Controlled Substances Act, right before a long list of Schedule I hallucinogenic substances, including the ones in question. Here is the full quote: "Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation, which contains any quantity of the following hallucinogenic substances, or which contains any of their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:"

You can view the entire CSA here: http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/csa/812.htm
Do a "find on this page" (CTRL-F) for Steve Beyer's quotation. It's there.
EDIT: the above link is just to the relevant section of the CSA for that quotation. The Table of Contents with links to the entire CSA can be found here: http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/csa.html


The issue came up in the UDV's case. It was determined in lower courts, and upheld in the Supreme Court, that "material" applies to plants. I can't see them changing their opinion. If anyone knows of a case where "material" was found NOT to include plants, please let me know.


I was confused by this, actually... the federal CSA doesn't actually say this. Maybe he was referring to the Kansas state-version of the CSA? I can't find an online copy of it.

Eek. If that's the case, I'd guess he was legally screwed, and his only ways out are either on a technicality, or for him and us all to challenge the law and fight for our rights until the law is changed.

In case anyone is interested the comparing the raid of PF in 2003, with the current BBB raid. Here is a link for starters. One similarity on both of these cases is that it came down to carelessness and flawed marketing campaigns. Hopefully the results of the fallout will also be similar when the smoke clears. Aside from losing his business (at least temporarily), PF was not hit too hard, and nothing really trickled down to other spore vendors (except fear and extra caution)

http://www.fungifun.org/...=/fanaticus/potency.htm

Peace!
-idt

hey, dont worry he was talking to another poster that deleted his own message

idtravlr- that's comforting news, thank you. I'll have a look when I have a moment spare. Still, let's prepare for the worst, and use this attack as a springboard for securing our civil liberties from future oppression.

No, sir. There was a previous post by someone else that I was referring to and was subsequently deleted. Just know that it needed to be deleted.

However, my question to you is whether you or any of your people could touch base with me early to mid next month when I visit Lawrence. I'll be working to raise awareness on this case and the larger implications of it while I'm there.

Looks like the PF guy lost two houses and pleaded guilty to felony manufacturing. Not a small deal at all.

No small deal, but it coulda been worse. when you examine all the facts of the case and see that he was being viewed as the ring leader for an organization that was selling precursors (spores) to psychedelics and was providing info on how to grow from spore to illicit-substance-containing mushrooms it becomes apparent they could have hit him harder. If i remember correctly it wasn't that much time for the manufacturing and they let him keep his awesome woods house. By no measure was it a victory or even a positive outcome, but he didn't wind up facing Nick Sand time.

Personally, any amount of jail time is no small deal, especially since we're looked at as drug users and wind up with hitmen, rapists, and other hardcore felons...personally i think entheogens, if they're gonna merit any jail time at all should merit a club-fed sentence, but even that would be too reasonable. Fuck this legal climate, for less than a 1/4 oz of weed I spent two nights and three days in 2 different cells in South Carolina with a bunch of people, but mainly 3 guys who between them had a body count of 17 killed and 5 injured, it was scary as all hell, although they were surprisingly nice...

Kansas law, Chapter 65, Article 41

Defining schedule I drugs:

Defining schedule III drugs:


The reason chain stores aren't being raided for selling san pedro or morning glory seeds is the legal concept of scienter. You can only be prosecuted for possessing, manufacturing (cultivating), or distributing these substances if you're cognizant of the fact that they contain scheduled drugs.

And in case you think that plants aren't scheduled unless listed specifically, consider Psilocybe cubensis. It's not listed in the federal Controlled Substances Act, and very few states have specifically scheduled it by name. This doesn't mean it's legal to cultivate and sell; the language of the law makes it clear that it is illegal. Because psilocin and psilocybin are scheduled, it is unnecessary to specifically name all the mushrooms that contain the drugs. It's exactly the same for MHRB, san pedro, cebil, etc.



Call me a pessimist, but I'm pretty sure they're fucked. And it could have widespread repercussions for all the ethno vendors out there. The authorities have been content to turn a blind eye to the ethno trade despite knowing full well that they could choose to start raiding and prosecuting at any time. This may signal an end to that era.

Well, if that's true than i hope it won't have repercussions for anyone ordering from those vendor's.
I mean...all digital information is being stored and tracable right?
So they know who ordered more than, let's say 100 grams of MHRB

That would be bad news for many american people of this forum.
And maybe also for people like me, if i would plan on travelling to the U.S. People are put on those list of suspected people who're not allowed into the USA for the strangest reasons.

Yeah, I believe the authorities seized BBB's sales history, so they know who ordered what... but I don't think it's likely they'll bring the action to individual purchasers. After Operation WebTryp back in 2002, I didn't hear about any individuals being prosecuted as a result, even though some people bought huge quantities of the RCs sold by the busted vendors. They seem to be concerned with cutting out distribution, not with punishing all the individuals who products were distributed to.


On another note, I noticed a lot of arguing in this thread about whether BBB might be liable because they knew their customers were going to ingest the products they sold... Personally I don't see how that question is even relevant. Sloan isn't being charged with any offenses that his customers may or may not have committed. He's being charged with manufacturing (cultivating) and distributing scheduled materials. It doesn't matter one bit what the people he sold them to did with them.

The only important question is: Did Jon Sloan know that san pedro contains mescaline, that cebil contains bufotenine, that chacruna and MHRB contain DMT, and that morning glory seeds contain lysergic acid amide. If the prosecution can prove that he did, then he's going to jail for life. And I think a quick glimpse through his web forum can establish that he did know these things (I haven't seen his Manifesting the Mind film... does he acknowledge these facts explicitly in there?). As far as I can see, the best thing that he can hope for is a good plea bargain, unless he somehow gets off on a procedural technicality.



On a more hopeful note, the DEA had nothing to do with this whole debacle, it was local police and the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. In the past, the DEA has shown themselves to be entirely content turning a blind eye to the illegal trade in rootbark and cacti. It's possible that when this whole thing blows over, things might go back to being more-or-less as they were.

Jon is not going to plea bargain.

We are going to trial, and fight every step of the way.
This is about freedom and liberty.

We need your help.
They are telling us that to fight this effectively we will need $200,000.00
Don't forget.... they stole ALL of Jon's bank accounts, his business accounts, his personal accounts, his savings. They stole his six year old son's savings account. They left him with NEGATIVE $55,000.00 in the bank.
See what they did to his office: http://www.bouncingbearb...the_feds_did_to_jon.htm
Remember: They stole all of his money BEFORE he has been convicted of anything. Innocent until proven guilty? Not in America.

We set up a defense fund for Jon.

Jon Sloan Defense Fund
POB 944
ST Charles MO 63302

Please donate. Send $5.00.
Send $100.00
Send $5,000.00
Any amount is better than no amount.

The outcome of this trial affects YOUR freedom.
Stand up for freedom.

Please post this address on your Facebook account, your MySpace, your blog, your twitter.
Let your friends know.

Thank you.

I am Jon's dad.

What are the prospects of any amount of money going to Jon's defence actually helping?

Which lawyer do you have in mind to hire?

Which is the legal tactics the lawyer is going to follow?

Is the lawyer well experienced with similar cases?

When is Jon tried and in which jury?

I'd really to know more details on these issues before giving any money. Besides, we still do not know the counter-arguments the prosecutor(s) are going to use in the trial.

I have seen many horrible examples of donation going for the wrong purposes in the past. Why in this time it is a good point to donate? We do not really have many shots, so we'd better be careful.

We already hired a lawyer.
His name is Tom Bath. His address is 7944 Santa Fe Drive, Overland Park KS 66204


The lawyer is going to defend Jon. I'm not going to publically tell anyone what the defense has in mind. The Feds read these forums. Why give them info?

The lawyer is a criminal defense attorney, who specializes in cases like this.

There is not trial date. That will be long, long from now.
His first hearing is April 13. Trial will be 6 months to a year after that.

And, sorry, but we are not going to publically list and counter-arguments about anything.

It is a good time to donate because Jon doesn't have any money. The lawyer has to get paid. Simple.
He needs a $20,000 retainer to get started.
This guy is not a freebee.

Going back to your very first question. The money going into the defense fund pays for the defense fees. Simple as that. The lawyer gets a salary, hires experts, does investigation, exploration and gets going working on a defense.

We aren't collecting money to pay for Jon's parakeet food.

I will donate, and you have my permission to use a little bit of what I give for the parakeet.

Pokey

You could use Fundable or put a ChipIn box on the BBB homepage.

To anyone who is not going to give to Jon's defense fund (not those who can't spare any) I would say it's time to put your money where your virtual mouth is.

If Jon loses, WE ALL LOSE. Not nearly as much as him, but it will almost certainly change the lives of everyone on the Nexus.

If Jon wins, WE ALL WIN. It may be a battle that we win, not the war, but it will be very significant.

Jon is our champion in this battle. Lot's of people are writing about how badly they want to help our cause- this is the quickest way to take up the fight. All the other stuff being discussed and organized (ELF, etc...) is really awesome and will hopefully develop into great assets for this community, but if Jon loses it will set a precedent in the courts that will be VERY hard to change in the future.

Jon Sloan Defense Fund
POB 944
ST Charles MO 63302

Pokey the Defense Fund Contributer and Parakeet Feeder

Jon Sloan, no matter what you might think of his personal or business practices or his store, has expanded the minds and souls of thousands of people by allowing them access to the entheogens from his store. He took a major risk doing this. Thousands have benefited greatly spiritually and mentally because of Jon Sloan's business. He is the single most important distributor of enthogens on earth. Without his involvement many would have never had access to these wonderful healings plants or even had known they existed until his business took off.

I think anyone who's ever purchased anything from Mr. Sloan should give him support. Anyone who believes in the personal freedom to use entheogens should give him support.

I personally thank Mr. Sloan for making entheogens available to the masses. I believe he has made the world a better place by doing so. It is unfortunate that some see entheogens as harmful plants. They have no idea how healthy entheogen use can be for the mind and soul. They can literally open you up to life, God, and many other things.

I think many of the customers of Jon Sloan are partially responsible for the situation Jon Sloan is in. How many people posted on forums that they extracted DMT from the mimosa he sold? If you posted anything like that, you owe it to Jon Sloan to help him out because you are partially responsible for his current situation.

People who've posted about their ayahuasca they made from herbs bought at BBB, people who've made YouTube videos about it, people who've posted how to extract DMT, are all partially responsible for this.

Jon Sloan needs all the support he can get, and then some. He needs money, not just for a good lawyer, but also to take care of his son, and other things in life. The FDA robbed him. I think all of us should pitch in. If you've ever bought anything at all from his site, or buy entheogens anywhere else, you are partially to blame for this situation and should do your part to help him out.

It's because entheogens are becoming popular that the FDA even cared to raid him. It's sights like YouTube, Erowid, The DMT Nexus, Drugs Forum, Blue Light, books by McKenna, Ott, Shulgin, etc., etc., etc., that are the reason he got in trouble in the first place. They contributed to the popularity of entheogens and made them an annoyance for the FDA.

For a long time the FDA and DEA did not want to get involved. The media, mostly from people like US, that spread around the world, made the issue an issue they could no longer turn a blind eye too. It's OUR FAULT.

Dammit. We have to do something about it.

I can't stand the thought of Sloan being imprisoned because so many people bought mimosa from him, talked about it on YouTube, and other sites. SWIM bought many things from his store and feels very much responsible for this situation. How can you not?

Jon Sloan took a big risk to help you get your mimosa, cactus, caapi, and cebil shipped to your home door. Now it's time to help him. He needs your help.

Please give whatever you can.

Is there a way we can donate over the internet? Paypal?

I kinda like the idea of placing a donation page on the BBB site.

With the internet nowadays, you never know who is really who.
I'm sorry TheGuy, it's nothing personal.
I would imagine more people would feel comfortable donating if such a thing was done.

I'd be more than happy to spare my time to help code whatever would be needed.