I also can't jump up to any conclusions yet from these tlc plate until we establish a better resolution tlc protocol. Triethylamine will most likely enhance the resolution when substituted for 25% ammonia. It's going to be shipped soon.

The good news is that all strains showed some ok concentration of tryptamines. For reagent were working on using anisaldehyde spray then baking the TLC. O just need to read further on that process before jumping in with testing. It would be really sad if we mess the TLC spots with the wrong regent protocol.

HPLC/HPTLC are coming soon for another 13 wild local accessions from north Africa. Stay tuned.

On another note, I suggested to my friend that they use a/b extraction and pull with DCM evaporate the extract and then add methanol with ammonia. Would you agree with me that conducting TLC with a/b extract instead of pulling the dry leaf powder with acetic acid or methanol or combination of the two would make for cleaner spots?

I also suggested using naoh instead of naco3 for basing to saponify the fatty acids and further destroy the chlorophyll which.

My logic is that destroying bufotenine by Noah is worth the cleaner results . Bufotenine is not a major alkaloid of aquatics to begin with.

^..yes, for alkaloid determination that will give clearer separation, that's why the Simplified Column Chromatography is designed in that way. And it's important broad spectrum solvent is used - like dcm. I would usually recommend naoh over naco3 (for extraction) but different chemists (i'm not one) have their preferences and know what they're doing. And also naco3 can be better in different chromatogarphy contexts and purposes. The amount of naoh used (at least in a TLC context) should not be enough to destroy bufotenine (?) ... And for the purposes of qualitative, not quantitive, tests, maximizing extraction efficiency is not as much of a concern.

Quick update here.
Curious about the effect of basing 5-meo-dmt with naoh vs naco3 we conducted a small experiment. Took a sample of toad venom dissolved it in methanol + nh3 to extract the 5-meo-dmt. This left a small residue that didn't dissolve. Pulled the methanol into an evaporating dish and left it to dry. Once dry 1% acetic solution was added to the evaporation dish and the solution was split into two vials one was based with 50% naoh and the other based with a saturated solution of naco3. DCM was added to both vials mixed and pulled. Here's the TLC result for both samples in comparison to toad venom reference (venom dissolved into methanol + nh3)
Left to right: reference sample, naco3, naoh. We had doubts from previous TLC tests on phalaris strains that naoh might have been destroying 5-meo-dmt since the same strain of phalaris showed a spot for 5meo when naco3 was used for basing but the same spot disappeared when based with naoh. This last TLC shows a clear degradation of 5-meo-dmt in 50% naoh.. maybe lower concentration of naoh might not destroy the 5-meo-dmt but I think from now on we'll be using naco3 for more accurate than results.

We also compared two TLC's: cooked fresh leaves tea, based and extracted with DCM Vs fresh leaves macerated with 1% acetic acid dried and pulled with methanol + nh3..
Cooking fresh leaves gave much clearer TLC results.
Left to right: reference (5-meo-dmt+DMT), cooked Italian strain of aquatica + naco3, aquatics """" macerated + co3, aqua"""" macerated + naoh

So we can come out the conclusion that the best fitting protocol for future phalaris TLC is to cook the leaf sample, base with a saturated solution of naco3 and pull with DCM.. evaporate the DCM and wash the extract with mathanol + 25% ammonia for TLC.

I am sending some fresh leaves from my own aquatica cultivar with an extract from it as well to undergo the same TLC analysis. So eager to finally try this analysis protocol on an already proven active and potent strain! I feel like we're getting close to some intriguing revelation here.

You can notice how the cooked preparation gave cleaner spots and also can observe that the sample based with naoh had its DMT/5-meo-dmt spot missing. 5-meo-dmt might not be as stable as DMT after all. Least not in highly alkaline solution.

This makes me really wonder since I always used naoh for basing every time I extracted from my aquatica and always got some good yeilds that are active. I also tried different from concentrations of naoh some were pretty strong even though not as strong as 50% as in this experiment.

Could this mean that I could have got better yeilds if I used naco3? Makes me curious to try using naco3 to see if I can notice any difference.

It's tea time again.

^good and thorough research..

Missing from the Phalaris alkaloid list on the last page are Tyramine and N-Methyl-Tyramine


Sidisheikh.mehriz wrote:


And I saw a 7 headed dragon rise from the dry sea..

it's first head was white, and gentle, but people spoke against it with fear

and it's second head was orange, and was a secret few who looked understood

and it's third and fourth heads were merged, like twins of light and shadow...and so people tried to cast them against each other

and it's fifth head was red like the ruby sun, and it's seventh like the amber forest, glowing blue in the evening , and yet they made the careless ill

but the sixth head, now that is the beast

to hear is wisdom, now count the numbers up...



.


And I saw that many things in this world are not as they seem

and I chose not to be content until I knew the truth.


..now, onwards nexians to the future in the infinite meadows of Phalaris..
.

I'm happy to say that seeds from my aquatica cultivar is active!

Ground up the seeds in a coffee grinder and cooked in a weak citric acid solution. Once it started boiling the whole liquid tuned into grool. Obviously seeds wer high in starch which hydrolyzed by heat to form a thick gel. Frustrated with my poor decision to cook it I took a big spoonful of this grool and swirled it around in my mouth and few seconds in an unmistakable +1 tryptamine rush started similar to munching on a small handful of leaves from this cultivar.

These were old non viable seeds that failed many attempts to germinate it. I can't perform an a/b extraction on this grool because of the gel consistency so I don't know how to fix this issue. Can't eat the grool with rue either since seeds of phalaris contain high amount of nano hair like silica that is known to cause intestinal cancer. So I really don't know how to go about this batch.

Seed of this cultivar is rather still expensive and very limited commercially but imagine if we could locate an active commercial variety of canareinsis seeds! Imagine all the possibilities

Would be cool if this myth had anything to do with canary grasses... I mean, geographical distribution would certainly make it at least plausible...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaucus

Just bioassayed a smoked extract.. fresh leaves cooked with tap water with a pinch of oxalic acid. Based with lye,, pulled with chloroform, evaporated till it's a viscous yellow oil. Oil washed with chloroform into a vial, and performed a mini a/b on it with a defat step also with chloroform.

Basic pull evaporated to even lighter yellow oil almost completely colourless. Few drops chloroform added and thrown in half a cigarette worth of tobacco and left it to dry and rolled into a joint.


I can safely say this is the cleanest smoothest extract I have ever bioassayed. Felt like just one pure tryptamine compound. The best psychedelic I have ever tried period. Zero visuals just pure light. The smoke felt as smooth as a vape mod tweaked to perfect setting. I could go on forever about what I perceived during the peak and come down but it's not the place for it here. It puts mescaline to shame when it comes to clarity of thoughts and clarity of energy. Aas pure as a prism.

When I was salting the pull with oxalic acid. Crystals formed quicker than I could separate the polar layer ...some crystals crashed out in the extraction vessel..the rest of the polar fraction transferred into an evaporation dish solidified in just couple minutes to raw sugar like colourless crystals. This salt form is non hygroscopic and has low solubility in water. It just loves to be in crystal form.

From now I will be using this method. I don't even need fumaric acid and acetone.

Hey everyone, I have followed the several phalaris threads with great interest and I am looking to start growing a few plants myself.

I am looking to grow part of my plants in a Kratky hydroponics setup. Are there any leads as to if or how much light is beneficial to alkaloid production? Are observations made for plants in soil transferable to a hydroponics setup?


On another note, the extraction method used by Sidisheikh.mehriz
(here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...mp;m=1216991#post1216991) yielded great results. Is it a tek already described in the wiki? If not, could you provide more details about your method @Sidisheikh.mehriz?

Sorry if any of this has already been answered here or elsewhere and many thanks to everyone who has put work into this over last years.

What strain was this extract made from?

Aquatica has already successfully been grown hydroponically. Yes the grass traits grown In soil are transferable to a hydroponic system we have covered this subject on this thread where you can find a PDF file on this. I haven't tried it myself but another member has tried it on phalaris arudinacea.

The extraction is a standard acid base nothing fancy. No defatting step was needed to get an extract good for smoking. You just need a good strain. The rest is very straight forward forward.. It's as easy as extracting MHRB.

It's a north African cultivar.

interesting, not sure if you've seen microgreens being grown on hydro pebbles with great success, whats your opinion on phalaris grass juice like wheat grass juice ? considering the alk% is high in that stage (maybe freeze/thaw prior to juice to break the cell wall), and vaporize the dried juice in a GVG or soak smokable leaves in the juice an dry it ? would only need a company to farm it on a massive scale with proper fertilization data and harvest the seeds to ship worldwide for your specifically tailored tryptamine experience

The actives in the juice would be in salt form (probably oxalate) along with other stuff like flavanoids, polyphenolic compounds, antioxidants, fatty acids and whatnot.. the smoke will be harsh and will clog whatever device you're using. It will work but wil not be pleasant.

Secondly yield wise you can get so much more product from growing the seeds to large plants versus microgreens. There's a window of time early autumn when aquatica breaks summer dormancy (the longer summer dormancy the better) when yield is as high as in few days old seedlings.

We do t have to reinvent the wheel. Just sowe to in spring if you're in northern climate and autumn if you're in South. Let it grow till it's one month old and you can have your first harvest, extract mix with your favourite herb yyo roll in a joint or you can use the machine device or vape mod for vaping.

Easy.

More interesting TLC, this time on young seedlings. Strains from Italy, Spain, Israel and Uruguay (not in order). First spot is reference for DMT/5-MEO-DMT as usual.

Firstly I'm surprised how cleaner is the seedlings profile Vs mature plants, and secondly I'm surprised by how all strains but one haD fair spot for DMT/5-MEO-DMT and not much else.

We'll be testing all these seedlings again as they grow larger to see if the alkaloids profile remains the same.


The strains or single seedlings that shows the most promising profile will be cloned and bred amongst each other and then back crossed with the most favourite strain of them all..

We highly encourage others contribution in this project. If you have any strains of interest we can collaborate together to enhance the breeding programme and share seeds.

It might be too early at the moment but as the TLC protocol is constantly improving by spring time we should be able to reliably screen out strains of interest and may start up a phalaris aquatica breeding project.

Hey Sidisheikh, what is the TLC protocol you are using? Specifically, how many grams of what (grass blade or tips? regrowth?) are you using for TLC? And are you doing a mini extraction first or just soaking the blades in methanol after a freeze/thaw cycle or blender?

I ask because I have many of my own Phalaris Aquatica currently growing and am now looking to perform TLC on them. Will be doing TLC on 2nd regrowth of transplanted wild aquatica that has been sitting in my garage for 1 week devoid of water and sunlight.

A grain of sand worth of product from first pull on 280g dry aquatica blades gathered during anthesis (peak summer here atm) and then subjected to TLC gave no results. Previous TLC analysis on acacia longifolia gave reproducible spots adjacent to the known caffeine spot, no spots where DMT would be (.64) caffeine ratio, so at least I am doing TLC right. I know that Endlessness recommends ~5mg of product for testing, but how many grams of grass blades would you recommend for DMT to show up on TLC following either a methanol soak or mini A/B. Currently have no DMT baseline but am getting some (only 50mg) soon (should I dissolve, say, 5mg of this in ~1ml methanol for TLC?).