Yea, we need China and China needs us. China relies on us to purchase the things they produce, which is one reason why they are still investing in US t-bills. The national debt is not an issue for private interests...this is the kicker of the financial crisis we just saw. The way US economic/political processes have been married makes it so that we do not engage in true capitalism...if we did, banks would have been allowed to fail and the market would have dictated the fate of the financial behemoths, not governmental protectionist policies. This is why we had massive tax-payer bailouts and then companies like Lehman Brothers were able to distribute billions in "golden parachutes" after the meltdown. Here is the model of American Politics/Economics: the profits are privatized and the costs are socialized, whether they're financial, ecological, or social.



Here you have confused America with American Interests (a circumscribed group that is private and essentially not-subject to what you are discussing). How many of the top 100 GDPs are corporations (owned by national-citizens somewhere but separate GDPs from their nations, or at least separate economic entities, for all intents and purposes)? How many of these corporations are American-owned? Yea, we have a huge amount of debt...but who is We? The way this debt is structeured across the populace, there are clearly people in the top tier who are relatively unaffected by this.



I don't disagree with you at all here...in fact, if you read my earlier comments in this thread (specifically the one referenced in response to a1pha's comment on Keynes) you would see that I pointed to the failure of liberal economics to ever save a country in this (or a development) situation as well as the prime American example of avoiding this type of scenario: FDR's New Deal



Actually, in the full range of interviews Buffet has given over the past several years, he has mentioned raising taxes on the ultr-rich numerous times, as well as closing loopholes...in fact there are a handful of articles over the past 14-months from a variety of sources titled similarly to "Buffet Calls for Closing Loopholes, Raising Taxes." So the comments here are somewhat off-base. America is sliding towards third-world economic disparity (actually we're already there). The fact-of-the-matter is that this will become incredibly apparent in the not-too-distant future...with shocking effects, imo. However, American Interests, when compared to the American populace will be, relatively, quite secure. They've got the capital and economic reserves and global-strength to hold on to disproportionately large pieces of the global pie.


So is the EU...so is much of the world...in fact, these national recessions/depressions are all pieces of global stagnation. America's lack of regulation and increased privatization have created an absurd system of Booms and Busts that has grown continually more destructive. The next recession/depression will be devastating...significantly larger than the last one, and I guarantee you it will not solely affect America.


Indeed, it will, and not just on America, but on the entire world. One crucial piece you're missing in this is that America IS the IMF and the World Bank and the UN...these are all global structures/organizations we erected post-WWII to ensure the protection of our interests throughout the world. So, saying the IMF will/won't take a position that America will/won't support is like Saying America will/won't support its own interests through whatever means available. Look through history, we have done horrific stuff to ensure that we hold onto as much power, wealth and control as possible, regardless of the human, economic or environmental costs. The American Interests/"Ruling Class" are essentially unrivaled anywhere in the world...policies that started back with Reagan allowed for this by deregulating industry, screwing over the American worker, and creating economic policies that allowed for maximum corporate exploitation.

I'm not optimistic about American political or economic power...I'm realistic about the economic power wielded by the top .1% of American citizens...the evidence is there throughout history and even in the present there is plenty of evidence in the economic and political realms that supports the position I am espousing. Driving up income disparity serves to further destabilize our worker population (something Ben Bernanke referred to as one of the best aspects of our current economy...he called it one of the "bright spots" iirc) driving down employee costs and helping the private tyrannies that are corporations to maximize profits more and more.

But what are private interests worth if the society on wich they where founded is eroding?
I admit, this is a bit of a longer-term question.
I tend to look at it like this: The west has not always been dominant and will not alway be dominant. How we treat others (like the islamic world) during our days of dominance, will leave a lasting impression on those people, that will come to haunt EVERYTHING that is western, once our dominance has vanished.
The islamic world and the west have been fighting eachother, one dominating the other and viceversa, for thousands of years. Even before there was an islamic or even a christian world(you could even argue that christianity and islam as a movement are both sprouted by local arabic resistance movements). By abusing your power when you're on top, you're only perpetuating this seemingly endless motion.

On top of this i'd like to add that lending money and thus 'creating' debths has been an ancient chinese strategy to gain power and controll over people.

Chinese plantations for instance always had a casino and pub nearby, owned by the same guy who owned the plantation, where workers of the plantation used to spent all of their money. Once deep enough in debth's, their bosses where always more than willing to 'help' their men with 'special arrangements'.

I don't know if something like that is happening now on a somewhat larger scale. But the lack of worry's about this contrasts very sharply with the worry's america does seem to have when it comes to 'homeland security'. You could say it's at least a bit inconsistent spending lot's of money to stay ahead of china militarily, financed by china itself.

a great 6 part interview with Ron Paul explaining many of his positions.

http://www.youtube.com/w...h?v=A6a9549ZeqQ&NR=1

It bothers you that people sing the praises of people who "genuinely" want to change things? What is it that you want? Are you happy with people like Obama or Bush running your country? Maybe Ron Pauls ideas sound ludicrous to you but thats because you have been brainwashed by your political upbringing, you cant open your mind to a new way of thinking.

It bothers me that people hear about real change that is needed or your country will go down the tubes and scupper it before even entertaining the idea.

Ray, 42nd Canadian federal election

You clearly haven't followed these threads...I would advise you to re-read my posts throughout these 17 pages.

I think you will find your comments are without basis.

I have cited evidence, provided detailed explanations and presented numerous reasons as to why the political system is isolated from the type of overbroad promises people have been presenting as reasons to vote for Paul. Please tell me which of my arguments/comments you disagree with and why. I have expressed my wants/ideas and what I perceive to be the failings (and history) of this system multiple times throughout this thread. If you feel my thinking is "brainwashed" I would ask you to show me where...my ideas are clearly those of a critical dissident of mainstream political thought and generally accepted geopolitical concepts.

I will read full thread for your position.

DeMenTed,

I wish this thread didn't exist, but as long as it does we should keep the ad hominem arguments to a minimum. If you feel SnozzleBerry is 'branwashed' and that Ron Paul has the answers, please explain to us instead of just accusing a Nexus member of being ignorant.

Thank you.

Well for one a1pha when ray of light was asked to argue his point etc he did say he didn't have the answers etc but he did post vids of Ron Pauls stance "the reason for this thread" i asked snozzleberry what it is that he wants and he didn;t answer me, much the same as you thought raay of light didnt answer you or snozz.

Ray of light started this thread to open peoples minds to a new possibility and way of thinking and instead of being encouraged you and snozz did your best to shoot him down in flames.

Snozz has already told us about his political background and yes he does have the literary skills to defen his argument, maybe ray of light and others dont have this capability but what hey do have is an open mind and not a defeatest atttitude much like neville chamberlain and co had against hitler.

America is as corrupt a country as they come. I'm not ssaying the american people are corrupt, iam saying the american system which never used to be corrupt has now been transformed into a warmongering corrupt hated nation. Ray of ligh offered a point in a new and correct direction but snozzleberries political education doesnt allow for new and different thinking. He is entangled in the corrupt system.

Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america.

for a guy that wishes the thread didn't exist you sure have contributed a lot to it .

Well, that's some of the beauty of globalization...and this is actually kind of funny, as it ties into Adam Smith's single usage of the term "invisible hand" (a term that would coopted by economics professors all over for an entirely different purpose). Ultimately, Smith said the National interests were strong enough so that even despite "free trade" merchants would re-invest in their nation of origin as if by an "invisible hand". For the full explanation see here. So...in this globalized world, where demand and labor are distributed "openly" across borders and populations/borders are relatively closed, American interests do not need America as a whole to remain intact...in fact, such erosion would create a picture much like that of the third world.

This "Third Worldization" of the US is a process that is happening now, right before our very eyes. Again...to my mind, this is not an optimistic position...this is the grim reality we face on a national and global basis. Fractional reserve banking and debt-based economies make for a mere shadow of infrastructure that is based on confidence, speculation and "minimum monthly payments"...the entire global economy is a Ponzi scheme that is in the process of collapsing.



I don't disagree with the cause/effect painted here...but this is what we see across the world throughout history. This is what we are seeing in the Arab spring...this is what we saw with the end of British, French and Spanish Imperialism on a colony by colony basis. This is the source of much turmoil in the world...and the elite generally tend to profit off of this turmoil; especially in this day and age of Military Industrial Complex dominance. I honestly don't see how this conflicts with any of the points I've made...these cycles are precisely those repeated throughout history.

Now hold on...not only have I already answered your question multiple times throughout this thread...I told you you could find the answer to your question throughout this thread. I didn't ignore...my answer was to actually read the discussion...if my positions are still not clear to you after you read them, then ask me for clarification and I will gladly give it.

I didn't "do my best to shoot [Ray] down". I challenged the reasons that Ray was presenting as reasons to vote for Paul. These were challenges that were never answered other than "he's got a good outlook" and "at least he's willing to try and change things"...which are not answers when the challenge is "The president has not authority over these things".

Finally, your end statement "Ron Paul knows what is wrong with america and propses to do something about it. Its more than can be said about most other politicians in america" is entirely devoid of any political fact and fails to address ANY issue or challenge that has been raised in the prior 17 pages of this thread...we are WAY too late in the game for mindless rhetoric to be flung around this thread in such a sloppy and apathetic manner.


DeMenTed - If you feel my thoughts/opinions are mainstream/brainwashed...I'd love to know what would qualify as radical or "out of the box".

No, what Ray offered is numerous threads (four now) with nothing other than YouTube videos. I don't consider this activity open-minded - I consider it conformist internet non-sense wasting valuable hard-drive space on the Nexus Server.

Also, he's not even in this system - he's not an American.


You forced it. I have a deep passion for destroying YouTube propaganda (if you haven't noticed).

PS I still love ya Ray. I know you're a good guy. But certain topics bother me here at the Nexus - and you seem to hit them all. =/

thank you Im sorry for hitting topics that bother you , im not trying to anger you.

I know I frustrate you man but I really do post with good intentions , I love you too bro and like I told olympus mon, this is just a discussion and I'm not gonna take anything personally.

I think my world view can rub people the wrong way here, I consider the nexus to something like planet vulcan where logic and science reign supreme.

I'm just the type of guy that goes by my emotional feeling towards something and yes I do have a good feeling about Ron Paul, I don't mind that you guys oppose my opinion I guess thats what this forum is all about.

Can a person like me totally fit into the nexus mold and never rub ppl the wrong way...... probably not but I just wanna say to anyone out there that I have rubbed the wrong way I'm just trying to express things I feel are important, thats all.

Feel free to challenge anything I say.

Because I can't address arguments in a video. You need to think critically about the ideas presented, then reflect on those ideas with sound logic.


I appreciate that fact. But I have yet to see a thread on Canadian politics from you - which leads me to believe you'd rather meddle in the affairs of others before addressing your own.


I'm not hostile. I'm just trying to understand you, since you insist on posting propaganda here.


It's a very worthy topic. Appropriate? No. This is the DMT-Nexus - NOT Politico.

Also, you have yet to present arguments to me - so I cannot crush them. This entire thread all I've wanted from you is a sound argument, and you have yet to give me one.

Snozz please read the very first post made by ray of light at the beginning of this thread. Where does it mention reasons as to why ray wanted people to vote for ron paul? he simply posted a link and you totally over complicated things with political mish mash. The thread wasn't started with that type of mindset, chill out man

You just dont like ron paul, its easy to see. Where as i like hik and so do many other people, they dont "need" go have to explain to you why they think this way. They think this way and that is that, accept it and stop with your literary slight of hand. I can see it and so can many others i presume.

Believing things can actually change is what i would call thinking out of the box stuff, so yeah i would say your thoughts are mainstream or brainwashed, whichever u prefer

I think Its amazing that an american politician can stir me up to the point that I'm willing to post about him on an international DMT forum as a Canadian citizen, that right there should tell you that this guy is different.

(Ron Paul is for personal liberty witch includes the right to do with your mind and body as you wish witch is why I think the discussion is relevant here)

I never cared about politics until I listened to Ron Paul speak, everything that comes out of his mouth is gold imo.

The only mindset worth discussing politics is a pragmatic one...otherwise it's mindless (and pointless) fantasy. If someone says "VOTE FOR PAUL" we can safely assume the reason is because they believe he can achieve something in the political forum. If the individual being touted is a sham (i.e. they make promises they can't keep) that is ENTIRELY the type of thing that belongs in a political thread.

Just because you would prefer if I didn't point out the flaws in a character many people support (despite not having legitimate or even quantifiable reasons why) or would prefer it if I didn't engage the topic analytically/critically doesn't mean that's the appropriate manner in which to discuss things, nor does it mean that I will engage such issues as you would prefer.

Claims require evidence...endorsements are based on claims...Ray chose to endorse, I chose to critique the claims of the man he endorsed as they are flawed. I'm sorry if you would rather I not think critically about this; that's just not who I am.


Ray - How can you say everything out of his mouth is gold when it's already been shown that he can't DO many of the things you're calling gold??? Is a physician's opinion "gold" if they claim to have magical panacea's, yet have no viable means of achieving what they claim their cure-all's can do? No...we'd label him a quack.

why does everyone care so much about who someone wants to vote for?..seriousily I just find all of this sort of odd.