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10x enriched leaf question Options
 
ChemicalEnthusiast
#1 Posted : 3/30/2015 3:10:54 AM

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I have a questions regarding information in Olys post (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=46839) about a 10x enriched leaf.

His tek says to simply boil 10 grams of caapi leaves for a couple of hours, strain plant material, evaporate the liquid and collect powder.

Does this powder have any harmalas?

Are the harmalas even soluble in water?

I'd like to skip doing an A/B extraction of harmalas if possible but my gut intuition is telling me that this type of extract wouldn't have any harmalas present.

Also if anyone has the pKa values for these harmalas that would be helpful.

Thanks!!
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
slewb
#2 Posted : 3/30/2015 6:06:23 PM

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Quote:
Does this powder have any harmalas?

yep that's the idea. Harmalas are soluble in water.

Quote:
Also if anyone has the pKa values for these harmalas that would be helpful.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&m=87229
^according to that:
Harmine pKa: 7.7
Harmaline pKa: 9.8
 
ChemicalEnthusiast
#3 Posted : 4/7/2015 8:52:05 PM

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slewb wrote:

yep that's the idea. Harmalas are soluble in water.


Wouldn't the harmalas be in the salt form if they are soluble in water? Wouldn't you have to freebase the harmalas in order to make them smokeable?
 
3rdI
#4 Posted : 4/7/2015 8:53:44 PM

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Yes and yes
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
slewb
#5 Posted : 4/8/2015 2:46:13 AM

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3rdI, is it really necessary to freebase the harmalas in order to make them smokable? I'm by no means an expert here, but IME smoked caapi leaf is active on its own without any processing/basing. Also the post to which the OP links does not mention basing, and says specifically that the effects are the same.

Quote:
Most people find it much more cost effective to enrich their organic plant matter with the harmalas from the Caapi leaf rather than extract and use pure Harmala freebase or purchase them from vendors. The effects are the same. You need a min of 10g Caapi leaves to infuse 1g of spice. Just buy an ounce its cheap and you can use it for lots of things. Take 10g of leaf in a pot and add water as if you were making a pot of tea. Bring to a slow boil or simmer for a couple hours adding water to keep the level consistent.

Remove plant material by however you wish. I like to use a fine mesh sack used to strain jams but a cotton t is just as good. Ring out your leaf and put all the combined liquid back into the pot to reduce. Here you can go 2 ways. You can add a fresh gram of leaf to the reducing liquid, slowly simmer off the water then leave out to fully air dry, or you can reduce the liquid alone, evaporate the remainder and scrape up the powdery residue. This crude Haramla powder will be later added to 1g of Caapi leaf to make a 10x 1 to 1 changa blend.

 
pitubo
#6 Posted : 4/8/2015 4:03:25 AM

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Harmalas do vaporize better as a freebase than in salt form. The salt form needs higher temperatures and that also means a higher risk of thermal degradation of the harmalas.

I'm not so sure about the claim that "Most people find it much more cost effective to enrich their organic plant matter with the harmalas from the Caapi leaf". Not only is Syrian Rue cheap and full of harmalas, I've also only recently read reports on the forum that enhanced Caapi leaf based changa doesn't compare to changa prepared with serious amounts (equal or comparable to amounts dmt) of freebase harmalas.
 
slewb
#7 Posted : 4/8/2015 4:45:59 AM

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Thanks for the clarification on smoked freebase vs salts of harmalas, pitubo.

But I am wondering, could reports of rue being more powerful than caapi in changa be due to rue's high harmaline:harmine ratio? From what I have read caapi has more harmine than harmaline and harmaline is reported to be ~2x as potent as harmine.
 
 
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