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blind placebo controlled study on mescaline, LSD and psilocybin Options
 
skelly0311
#1 Posted : 6/16/2023 5:18:25 AM
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https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-023-01607-2
interesting paper using a randomized blind placebo controlled study on mescaline, LSD and psilocybin. Pretty surprised at the dosage for mescaline. The researchers claim 500 mg is comparable to 100 mics of LSD and 20 mg of psilocybin, which I find very surprising. I also find the conclusion to their hypothesis flawed as well, claiming the study agreed with their hypothesis of the substance not having much difference in subjective effects. Below is from the blinding section

Quote:
Attributions of sessions to the four conditions that were guessed by the participants are shown in Supplementary Table S7. Overall, the participants did not unequivocally distinguish mescaline, LSD, and psilocybin during the experience nor after the study. The high mescaline 500 mg dose was correctly identified by 53.3% of the participants during the session and by 81.2% after the study, and was most commonly mistaken for LSD (33.3%) at t = 3 h. The low 300 mg mescaline dose was correctly identified by 50% of the participants during the session and by 68.7% after the study, and was most commonly mistaken for either LSD or placebo (both 18.7%) at t = 3 h. LSD was correctly identified by 58.1% of the participants during the session and by 68.7% after the study, and was most commonly mistaken for either psilocybin or the 300 mg mescaline dose (both 16.1%) at t = 3 h. Psilocybin was correctly identified by 48.4% of the participants during the session and by 78.1% after the study, and was most commonly mistaken for LSD (25.8%) at t = 3 h. Placebo was correctly identified by 96.7% of participants during the session and by 96.8% after the study. One participant mistook placebo for the 300 mg mescaline dose at the end of the study.


I find asking people at T=3 hours what substance they are on is flawed in this study for two reasons.
1. For most, 3 hours is when mescaline really starts to take off, and possibly begin to distinguish itself from other substances.
2. As the research paper states, only 2 people in the study have done mescaline, prior to this experience, while 12 people have done LSD, so their baseline for guessing which drug they are on is flawed, especially at T=3 hours.

the 81.2 % correct identification after the entire study is completed is much more relevant here, since the user was able to experience all three drugs within a couple months, and thus be able to compare and contrast the experiences properly. Doing this with psilocybin and mescaline would obviously have its issues, since mescaline has a much longer duration, but with LSD, the duration is much more similar. With that being said, it might have made sense to introduce placebo pills at every 30 minutes or so up until 2 hours in order to have the subject ignorant of the time the drug was actually taken.

Interested to hear other peoples opinions.
 

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merkin
#2 Posted : 6/16/2023 6:33:52 AM

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I completely agree with the 3hr come-up criticism. I could most definitely not equate 100ug acid or 2,5g cubensis with 500mg HCl mescaline, no question! I find mescaline usually 'coming up' closer to four hrs. A worthy attempt though to try and cross compare the subjective!
 
 
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