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bismillah
#1 Posted : 8/11/2021 3:21:51 PM

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This post details a trip I had last night / this morning.
I am posting this to share my experiences acting as a guide while tripping with a friend. This is my first time tripping with someone else at the same time.

I have a close friend (I'll call him D) who took an interest in DMT after hearing my stories and seeing my dramatic self-improvement. I tried giving him some to smoke but since he couldn't keep it in his lungs it was a bit of a nonstarter. D let me know he'd like to go deeper some day, so I prepared the real deal for him: an aya analogue.

The total dose is 7 grams rue, 15.5 grams mimosa split equally between the two of us. We head out to a local park and drink the rue tea at about 21:00. Half an hour later we follow with the mimosa concoction. Very quickly it becomes obvious that D's body is absorbing the brew much faster than mine. He is already describing tracers when we walk into the grassy field to sit down, it now being 21:35.

We both sit with our backs to a bench for comfort. Given the dose and my personal history, I expect this trip to be about a 3.5 to 4.0 out of 5 in terms of intensity. Interestingly my trip never quite develops as I expect---I am quite lucid.
As we would soon discover, though, D is in for the ride of his life.

After he vomits twice at 21:40 I assume the experience to be a failure, like the previous attempt. Boy did I turn out to be wrong. 10 minutes later, I ask him how he's feeling and he lets me know he was peaking. Peaking? I feel next to sober! Little do we both know what he thinks is a peak is something like a mere 10% of what was still to come.

By 22:00 D is on the verge of tears, calling out in woe. In this initial stage I presume his psyche is rejecting the loss of control, and that the intense visuals are overwhelming his mind. But as the experienced explorer I understand. I sit next to him and try my best to comfort him. For about half an hour he curls into a ball, crying and muttering and holding on to my legs for dear life. Overhead clouds clear, and I try to get him to focus on the stars to alleviate some of the fear. He is locked in his own little world. Now it's 22:40 or so, and, based on my own metabolism (silly, silly me!), I think that he must be on the way down. Despite some manic outbursts he is relatively quiet, so when he suddenly gets up and breaks into a wobbly sprint I am quite surprised.

D collapses in some tall grass about 10 metres away. I head over to make sure he is safe. This is when the darkest period of the trip begins. He assumes a sideways position and becomes totally unresponsive. He convulses, mutters nonsense, and generally refuses to communicate---not that I pester him often. At this point my main concern is making sure he doesn't vomit again and choke. I circle him like a guard standing tall, half in his world and half in reality. It feels like I'm wearing goggles that allow me to peer into the spiritual realm. The sky and surrounding houses are clear but the grass is a flowing ocean, the various nocturnal animals indistinct shapes scurrying between the waves. Because of this visual distortion I have to look extremely closely to make sure he is breathing and moving, and since he is essentially catatonic now I do this often to put my mind at ease. I think about how sad I would be if I let him come to harm.

All the while I hear brilliant classical sonatas and waltzes inventing in my head. Not really an important detail but that's where my mind was at.

For an hour I watch over him, dusting the bugs off him and making sure no animal comes near.

Eventually he starts moving once more. Now he is past the peak. He breaks out into more manic outbursts, looking up at me, around, and collapsing suddenly again. I cannot look into his eyes. His face frightens me. I see two faces, superimposed atop each other. Two mouths, two sets of eyes, two noses. One of these faces radiates dark and evil intentions that ride his gaze like twisted arrows on the wind. I have a strong intuition that this is his "demon". I cannot understand the nature of what I see but it is there, and it is inside of him. He later confirms that this demon is present, and claims to have expelled him, although I am not sure.

Again he stands up and moves around at a quick pace. D's personality is unrecognizable. I see he starts having muscles contractions and more outbursts, and I figure that he has a lot of pent up anger that he needs to release. Sadly he does this by throwing punches and shoves. All the while he apologizes profusely but I see that same darkness in his face. Thankfully I manage to keep him calm, but I seriously consider the possibility of having to run and leave him alone in this field. This is a sportive, muscular young man in his best years with martial arts training... while I can defend myself as well I really do not want to at this moment. At long last he does become more manageable an we start to walk off his trip around midnight.

His trip would continue for another 3 hours, though. I am totally sober by now, but D is still in another world, acting utterly bizarre (like he was a small child again, sparing you the gross details). Though I am exhausted, he's no longer a danger to me or himself, and I stay with him to ensure that he's safe. At this point we connect as friends. We seem totally open with each other. He says out of the blue, "You seem so wise. Your dad drank... hit your mom... now you a sad boy". We both know this but hearing it said aloud, so bluntly, is surreal.

At 02:30 I coax D into walking back to my house and lay him to bed in my basement. He is 100% still acting like he is tripping. I worry a little that the dose was too much for a first time; that he would be disturbed for hours, days even. I am so tired, though. I just leave him and hope for the best. My dog keeps watch.

The next morning I question him. "What did you see?". He simply says "Everything."
"We are all the same. You know Conway's game of life? I was the consciousness, and around me was chaos, like in the bible. Nothing could arise from the chaos. Finally there was a divine spark and order returned to the world."
I guess I gave him the trip he needed.

This experience was so incredibly taxing for me. I feel like the reason I never really tripped is because I knew my real purpose: to guide D through his experience. Somehow my body knew, and kept me awake and aware. And thank goodness, because if we were both in that state we would have woken up in the next town over, probably bereft of all our belongings and absolutely lost. Even so I was in constant conflict between my own trip and my responsibility to my friend. It felt like an analogy for parenthood.

I will never, ever again do this for anyone I don't totally trust... I feel like if you get caught with the wrong person tripping, their buried anger could easily leave you with serious injuries, or worse---the other person could storm off and get lost. I feel lucky everything turned out ok this time around. It took all of my patience to keep up with my friend and chase him down when he wandered off. Take this as a cautionary tale about tripping with friends.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 

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#2 Posted : 8/11/2021 6:13:26 PM
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Yeah, oral dmt can be a whole other beast from smoked/vaped. Obviously both powerful in their own right, though when reading reports like that of your friend I'm immediately reminded.

Glad to see that your friend made it through reasonably so. Was in a similar scenario many years back with someone very close. Her and I had essentially went the way of your friend with a hefty mhrb/caapi brew. Won't ever forget it.

Glad that he had someone there that was able to be with him. That dosage split between the two of you, yeah that can certainly put you fully under for the most part. That would run me over hehe.
 
Jees
#3 Posted : 8/11/2021 8:09:58 PM

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Glad it turned out ok!
That was a suspense read how things developed.

Introducing someone with 140 mg of representing freebase in an oral session, imho is unwise as in taking chances, nothing to die from but a psychological roulette that can go anywhere.
Thanks for writing honestly.
 
null24
#4 Posted : 8/11/2021 8:46:50 PM

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Wow man, I was getting stressed out just reading that. I hope you- and D- are OK.

You could really teach some folks about holding space-and tripsitting. From what you described, you did an amazing job at supporting and keeping your friend safe in a harrowing experience. I do not thin k I could've done what you did without panicking or even calling for help. That is why I don't give DMT to anyone anymore, I am not qualified to do so, even as an experienced tripper.

And yeah, that you were kept in a lucid enough state to be present. Weird sh#t, man.

Good on you bro, amazing job.Love
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
Tomtegubbe
#5 Posted : 8/12/2021 10:31:29 AM

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Quite a dose you took.

I have had many trips with a dose that felt like the upper limit of what I can do, but almost each time I knew I'm taking a risk and that helped me through. When the experience feels like too much I tell myself: This was what I signed for, now it's my job to keep the safebelt on and stay seated.

This can be hard if you are with someone who has only a vague idea of what to expect.

I think the dosage should be discussed well beforehand so that there is a sense of volition in experience when it gets intense.

It was very mature of you to bear your responsibility and walk your friend through the experience. My respects
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Very easy pharmahuasca recipe

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Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand
 
bismillah
#6 Posted : 8/12/2021 6:21:06 PM

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Thanks for reading everyone.

I tried my best to make sure D understood what he was getting into beforehand. I mean, he was on the fence for over a year, and did a lot of his own research.

I didn't bank on the trip being quite so powerful for him, just because my only measuring stick was my own sensitivity—which seems to be abnormally low. That said, better too much than too little, I believe. Anyway, he knew that no matter how much I told him or that he read online, he'd ultimately be surrendering himself to the whims of psychedelia the minute he took the plunge.

D's closing statement was: "I'm glad I did this, but I think I'm never doing it again."
Pretty much a perfect outcome I think Very happy
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Justsomedude
#7 Posted : 8/13/2021 2:07:09 PM
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What you did is incredibly irresponsible.

Assuming the 7,75 g bark tea you drank had 2% DMT left in it at the time you drank it, we're talking 155 mg DMT, which is quite a strong dose for most people that actually trip regularly if you ask me. Assuming it's 3%, that's 232 mg DMT.

You cannot, ever, dose for someone as you dose for yourself, always compare recommended dose consensus, and then low-ball it when it's a first time experience.

You say you acted as a guide, I do not agree with this statement, you ignored common safety practices and put someone in danger, both physical and mental. You pretended to be a guide.

This isn't a cautionary tale about tripping with friends, this is a cautionary tale about being irresponsible with people that have no clue about tripping, and you shouldn't be giving advice either, given what you wrote and did to a friend.

One does not subject their friends to preventable risks.


 
Voidmatrix
#8 Posted : 8/13/2021 6:24:37 PM

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Justsomedude wrote:
What you did is incredibly irresponsible.

Assuming the 7,75 g bark tea you drank had 2% DMT left in it at the time you drank it, we're talking 155 mg DMT, which is quite a strong dose for most people that actually trip regularly if you ask me. Assuming it's 3%, that's 232 mg DMT.

You cannot, ever, dose for someone as you dose for yourself, always compare recommended dose consensus, and then low-ball it when it's a first time experience.

You say you acted as a guide, I do not agree with this statement, you ignored common safety practices and put someone in danger, both physical and mental. You pretended to be a guide.

This isn't a cautionary tale about tripping with friends, this is a cautionary tale about being irresponsible with people that have no clue about tripping, and you shouldn't be giving advice either, given what you wrote and did to a friend.

One does not subject their friends to preventable risks.




I think they get that...

@bismillah, sounds like you both had quite a wild ride. Sitting and guiding is generally about putting out an energy of groundedness and balance in order to support the journeyer, but instances like these do pop up from time to time. A good reason to stay up to date and verified in first aid and CPR.

You've admitted to your mistakes which is all you can really do at this time and I think that for it being your first time doing something like this, you did well with the surprises thrown at you.

Typically, prior to a session with a journeyer, I try to cover certain protocols, mainly ones pertaining to safety.

How are you feeling now my friend?

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
bismillah
#9 Posted : 8/13/2021 10:21:24 PM

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Well, we're talking about a consenting adult here. Again, I made sure that D knew how difficult this can be. He *did* only have one prior experience—you're right that such a high dose was foolhardy—but he accepted this risk.
Irresponsible implies I didn't take responsibility for my actions or the consequences. But then I did everything in my power to make sure he was safe and that he knew he was safe, didn't I?

Now he is happy and healthy and presumably grappling with mysteries of the universe. I haven't had the chance to discuss with him in person yet but I know that he went back to work the same day as usual.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
Justsomedude
#10 Posted : 8/13/2021 10:26:22 PM
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bismillah wrote:
Well, we're talking about a consenting adult here. Again, I made sure that D knew how difficult this can be. He *did* only have one prior experience—you're right that such a high dose was foolhardy—but he accepted this risk.
Irresponsible implies I didn't take responsibility for my actions or the consequences. But then I did everything in my power to make sure he was safe and that he knew he was safe, didn't I?

Now he is happy and healthy and presumably grappling with mysteries of the universe. I haven't had the chance to discuss with him in person yet but I know that he went back to work the same day as usual.


You did everything in your power to make sure he was safe after you were grossly negligent with both dosage and information.

The outcome is irrelevant, it's the process that matters. If you had underdosed severely because you specifically react to very "low" doses, it would still be horrendous negligence.

Because it went well this time, does not mean it can and will every time, that's what safe practice guidelines are for, to reduce the risk of getting in a situation that is damaging to the participants, you didn't do that.

You gave a dude that you never tripped with properly before, and who never took oral DMT, a gigantic dose(for a beginner), you did not split the dose, you did not inform yourself about what common doses are, you did not inform yourself nor him properly.

People can end up in psych wards, or in custody, or both, when crap hits the fan on normal doses already.

 
bismillah
#11 Posted : 8/14/2021 1:45:40 AM

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It is what it is ┐(゚~゚)┌

If I should ever again decide to share this gift with anyone then I will of course bear your very good advice in mind.
I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
DeltaSpice
#12 Posted : 8/15/2021 5:54:14 PM

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I will add my thoughts but i am not condemning Bismilla openly , maybe privately in my mind Smile

The way i think about plants from the Amazon is that it is a secret and should not be talked about unless it is a must.
I know people who love to show off and one up people by talking about DMT and their experiences. This tends to lead in one direction which is "Can you get me some"

In the UK it is a Class A drug and something which you cannot buy, instead you have to produce it. Sentencing for production starts at 2 years plus the possession charge , that automatically puts you past the terms of a suspended sentence..Jail time = life over..

I think your friend should not have been given access to these sacred plants because of his reactions.

Maybe it is better for people to go through all the effort we/i have been through, forums, teks, etc to reach the end goal, then you have earnt it and then it was a calling..maybe
 
PedroSanchez
#13 Posted : 8/16/2021 9:41:05 AM

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DeltaSpice wrote:
I will add my thoughts but i am not condemning Bismilla openly , maybe privately in my mind Smile

The way i think about plants from the Amazon is that it is a secret and should not be talked about unless it is a must.
I know people who love to show off and one up people by talking about DMT and their experiences. This tends to lead in one direction which is "Can you get me some"

In the UK it is a Class A drug and something which you cannot buy, instead you have to produce it. Sentencing for production starts at 2 years plus the possession charge , that automatically puts you past the terms of a suspended sentence..Jail time = life over..

I think your friend should not have been given access to these sacred plants because of his reactions.

Maybe it is better for people to go through all the effort we/i have been through, forums, teks, etc to reach the end goal, then you have earnt it and then it was a calling..maybe


i have mixed opinions on this. on one hand i think everybody should have access and maybe even more so for the people that have an 'evil' in them. i think it can help them fight the 'evil' and see the world in a different way, although this is never an easy process as i think we saw in this story.
on the other hand i think these people are volatile and can often be a liability to others as well as themselves, which when combined with an overwhelming new outlook on the world can cause all kinds of problems both during the trip and during integration.
 
ShamanisticVibes
#14 Posted : 8/16/2021 12:34:21 PM
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I don't think condemning bis does anything constructive. I think the more pertinent course would be to stress the lesson to be learned here. I think he, and most of us already know the things being beaten into him. What I want to know, bis, is what have you learned, and how may you go about things differently next time(?); if there will be a next time at all. How has this experience changed you, and helped you grow? Will you continue to help your friend integrate his experience, as you are the more traveled of the two? Has this experience changed you in any way?

Once these questions are answered, it will be far more constructive to add an opinion in the mix, and to teach whatever lesson you think you may be teaching him. I know for me, when someone starts yelling at me, calling me names, or insinuating things that I may not believe are true about myself, I tend to shut down. And this is the Nexus, not facebook or twitter. So if there is not an accentuation on learning, then the strong words and points are all for naught.

And while I do believe that several mistakes were made here, yelling at bis without any sort of attempt at understanding will not help him grow at all. Let's use our heads and our hearts, here, folks. Big grin
May we continue to be blessed
 
Voidmatrix
#15 Posted : 8/16/2021 1:07:47 PM

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ShamanisticVibes wrote:
I don't think condemning bis does anything constructive. I think the more pertinent course would be to stress the lesson to be learned here. I think he, and most of us already know the things being beaten into him. What I want to know, bis, is what have you learned, and how may you go about things differently next time(?); if there will be a next time at all. How has this experience changed you, and helped you grow? Will you continue to help your friend integrate his experience, as you are the more traveled of the two? Has this experience changed you in any way?

Once these questions are answered, it will be far more constructive to add an opinion in the mix, and to teach whatever lesson you think you may be teaching him. I know for me, when someone starts yelling at me, calling me names, or insinuating things that I may not believe are true about myself, I tend to shut down. And this is the Nexus, not facebook or twitter. So if there is not an accentuation on learning, then the strong words and points are all for naught.

And while I do believe that several mistakes were made here, yelling at bis without any sort of attempt at understanding will not help him grow at all. Let's use our heads and our hearts, here, folks. Big grin


Yup! Big grin

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What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
bismillah
#16 Posted : 8/17/2021 12:02:11 AM

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Ah, it's alright. Obviously we're just strangers on the internet... all you have to judge me by is what I choose to share and your impressions of it, after all. Justsomedude has good ideas anyway.

What I learned is: despite all my research (I actually have studied common doses time and time again, and found that there *is no consensus* for this ROA) and personal experience, I'm gonna get it wrong. But I'm also pretty happy that I have some paternal spirit in me. That's one thing I always worried about before, particularly being an absentee father or just being unable to connect. It really felt like D was my son. That was my lesson that night.

Furthermore,

regarding Deltaspice's comments, I understand your point. For me, discovering DMT has been a whole journey. For someone just being roped in, I think there is a lack of respect there. Even my friend D, who did a year's worth of his own research and contemplation beforehand, didn't have the air of someone who revered what he was receiving (he does now, haha, but that's besides the point). I think for that reason that I will likely not offer DMT to anyone anymore. Nonetheless I feel some responsibility to share my knowledge with my friends, present and future.

Psychedelics have helped me immensely and they could help many more. Right now they are still somewhat underground and regarded as "party drugs"; the world needs people like us with more informed attitudes sharing our experiences. Never pushing, but if it comes up naturally, then... full speed ahead. If someone becomes interested, then: "Here's how I did it—now go out and do the same yourself."

I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want a clever signature.
 
seagull
#17 Posted : 1/17/2022 1:58:56 PM

Hello world!


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Mad respect. You did well
By the way when you saw the two different faces, was the other an angelic one?
You&Iverse
 
 
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