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Am I a freak of nature? 60mg spice consistently gives sub-breakthrough experience. Options
 
Lampeyelittle
#1 Posted : 2/29/2020 7:28:37 PM

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People always say, "you'll know when you break through." Right now, I'm not so sure.

Either my spice is wack, my method is wack, or I am wack. My first test with freebase DMT was 30mg in my e-mesh setup. Strong visuals, but not even a sub-breakthough waiting room experience. Strange, I thought. So the next experience I loaded up 60mg to see what would happen. Still sub-breakthrough, I floated around a void for a while until fading back down to reality.

For this experience I decided to test 60mg again to see if the effects are consistent. 60mg loaded up in an e-mesh setup, everything vaporized in 3 strong hits (maybe 4? I was halfway to the hyperspace by that point), each hit held for twenty seconds each. I came in with intent to break through, no worries, no panic. I can tell how much more comfortable with the DMT experience I am getting.

After the third and final toke, I laid my head back down and I was instantly in that familiar space. I can tell how much I have learned on my previous journeys. I said "I want to break through" but this place is as far as I went. Whenever I use DMT I go to this place, at least at the start. With my changa breakthroughs I moved past this place, so I don't think this experience was a breakthrough. However, 60mg of spice consistently gives me this experience. This is twice the normal breakthrough dose for most people, so I am completely and utterly puzzled.

It's a nice place, but I seek more. I wish for those experiences I read about where people discover the secrets and meaning to the universe. I do everything to prepare for an experience like that, but my experience is completely different.

For me, it feels like the "experience" of DMT is all DMT is. I become its essence, it's physical feeling, it's silent buzzing/ringing sound. After coming back down, I was more scared and confused about coming back down to this daily life than I ever was in that DMT dimension. Although it became very clear to me as to why this forum was created, to possibly try and get a grasp as to what the hell is going on with this substance.

I would appreciate any advice from more experienced psychonauts as to what I should do moving forward, or if anyone has had similar experiences as mine. I'm going to re-x my spice this weekend to see if I can purify it, but the possibility of my spice having <50% purity seems highly improbable. Thanks for reading, friends.
"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know" - Kansas
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Tony6Strings
#2 Posted : 2/29/2020 11:09:34 PM

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I need at least 40 in a gvg to break through. I'd always heard 30 was standard BT dose but this leaves me in sub BT every time. There was one bullsharks guy on here who insisted my vaping technique was to blame, he wouldn't consider the possibility that some people just need a little more for whatever reason.

Try 40 in a glass vapor genie, brillo filter, torch lighter, vape in one slow steady toke, hold it for 20 seconds. If you break through this way it sounds like you need to adjust your emesh device for better efficiency. If not, go up in increments of 5 mg until you find your breakthrough dose. From what I have read, a good emesh setup is just as efficient as the gvg.

Good luck, travel well, let us know how it goes.
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
endlessness
#3 Posted : 3/1/2020 9:45:59 AM

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Im not familiar with the emesh method but IME 99% of the times people cant breakthrough or need very high doses is because their method of smoking/vapping isnt ideal. As im sure youve read,a lot of people here suggest the GVG with a ceramic pad or liquid pad on the bottom plus a torch lighter, as an amazingly effective method. Thats what I use. If you cant afford that, try building a Green Buddha or an Inspirator mkII. At the very least experiment with a couple of different methods, ideally using convection-based heating. Good luck, and dont forget to share your results.
 
Jees
#4 Posted : 3/1/2020 5:23:18 PM

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Lampeyelittle wrote:
...After the third and final toke,..
Hi,
if a dose is spread out over time and several tooks, chances rise that your rocket fails in truly escaping the eartht's gravity, for an analogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity wrote:
...The escape velocity from Earth's surface is about 11.186 km/s (6.951 mi/s; 40,270 km/h; 36,700 ft/s; 25,020 mph; 21,744 kn)[1]. More generally, escape velocity is the speed at which the sum of an object's kinetic energy and its gravitational potential energy is equal to zero;[nb 1] an object which has achieved escape velocity is neither on the surface, nor in a closed orbit (of any radius). With escape velocity in a direction pointing away from the ground of a massive body, the object will move away from the body, slowing forever and approaching, but never reaching, zero speed. Once escape velocity is achieved, no further impulse need be applied for it to continue in its escape...


Especially for oral pharmahuasca the intensity obtained is enormous dependent on the speed at which the molecules are absorbed. If the digestion track has a slow day, you have a walk in the park. Sometimes it goes fast and you're in for a surprise. All same dose.

Maybe your rocket hangs in mid air, and each took bumping it up a bit but you never really cross escape velocity?

This is just a possibility only, people can indeed be less sensitive.
To illustrated there's no guarantee, some deep divers complain about being truly locked out after a very successful period, a long break is often a solution.

I hope you get it sorted out.
When I've smoked a heap of THC then after that BT is out of the question. Some people react differently, but I had to add that for me once crossing a certain point of THC it blocks the route to deems world.
 
Tony6Strings
#5 Posted : 3/1/2020 6:44:40 PM

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Endlessness and Jees!! Do you guys have a Healthstone vapor stone in your gvg? I highly recommend!! Fits perfectly and works incredibly!!!
olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
Lampeyelittle
#6 Posted : 3/1/2020 7:46:16 PM

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Thanks for the wise words, all. The e-mesh method is supposedly the next best thing to the GVG, although a vapor genie is certainly on my wish list once I get the cash. I'm going to tweak my vaporizer's settings to try and get a faster vaporization, which is probably the main cause of my inefficiency. Practice makes perfect!

I'm in the process of a re-x right now, and I believe I had a substantial amount of base in my spice. I knew goo was normal, but the amount of gunk in there probably played a part too.

I'll try 30mg again with my re-x'ed spice and report back!
"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know" - Kansas
 
Jees
#7 Posted : 3/1/2020 7:53:40 PM

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T6S, in my glass GVG sits a very old school copper scrubber dot, it still serves purpose while a more 'decent' solution is prolly better.

Got a few metal GVG liquid pads though, used it few times but it needs a lot of heat to get all that fat bunk metal to due temperature and they did not sit extremely properly, I think a fitting stone would be better (less heat inertia) and I'm going to check out that Healthstone thingy, thanks for the advise!
btw I came back from a torch toward a simple 3/4" lighter flame, sometimes I think the torches are overvalued. Especially when they do click-click-click no show at those very moments LOL.

Not vaping much as of late, few times my rocket simply seemed to explode mid air into scattered fragments with obviously no coherent story to witness, just bwaffff and find yourself dangling on a chute toward earth slowly Laughing. Fun though.
Then rectal ROA (+maoi) came across the adventurous possibilities and never ever had such a nice clean effortless sliding into realm, one hardly notice the transition at all and suddenly find yourself in a nice place. It had my gvg sitting in that brown kitty more than it deserves. But as of late the glass is calling my name again and why should such a call stayed unanswered Pleased

 
Jees
#8 Posted : 3/1/2020 7:56:00 PM

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Lampeyelittle wrote:
Thanks for the wise words, all. The e-mesh method is supposedly the next best thing to the GVG, although a vapor genie is certainly on my wish list once I get the cash. I'm going to tweak my vaporizer's settings to try and get a faster vaporization, which is probably the main cause of my inefficiency. Practice makes perfect!

I'm in the process of a re-x right now, and I believe I had a substantial amount of base in my spice. I knew goo was normal, but the amount of gunk in there probably played a part too.

I'll try 30mg again with my re-x'ed spice and report back!
Fingers crossed and godspeed Thumbs up
 
Teamleary
#9 Posted : 3/2/2020 7:01:36 PM

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Lampeyelittle wrote:
People always say, "you'll know when you break through." Right now, I'm not so sure.

Either my spice is wack, my method is wack, or I am wack. My first test with freebase DMT was 30mg in my e-mesh setup. Strong visuals, but not even a sub-breakthough waiting room experience. Strange, I thought. So the next experience I loaded up 60mg to see what would happen. Still sub-breakthrough, I floated around a void for a while until fading back down to reality.

For this experience I decided to test 60mg again to see if the effects are consistent. 60mg loaded up in an e-mesh setup, everything vaporized in 3 strong hits (maybe 4? I was halfway to the hyperspace by that point), each hit held for twenty seconds each. I came in with intent to break through, no worries, no panic. I can tell how much more comfortable with the DMT experience I am getting.

After the third and final toke, I laid my head back down and I was instantly in that familiar space. I can tell how much I have learned on my previous journeys. I said "I want to break through" but this place is as far as I went. Whenever I use DMT I go to this place, at least at the start. With my changa breakthroughs I moved past this place, so I don't think this experience was a breakthrough. However, 60mg of spice consistently gives me this experience. This is twice the normal breakthrough dose for most people, so I am completely and utterly puzzled.

It's a nice place, but I seek more. I wish for those experiences I read about where people discover the secrets and meaning to the universe. I do everything to prepare for an experience like that, but my experience is completely different.

For me, it feels like the "experience" of DMT is all DMT is. I become its essence, it's physical feeling, it's silent buzzing/ringing sound. After coming back down, I was more scared and confused about coming back down to this daily life than I ever was in that DMT dimension. Although it became very clear to me as to why this forum was created, to possibly try and get a grasp as to what the hell is going on with this substance.


I would appreciate any advice from more experienced psychonauts as to what I should do moving forward, or if anyone has had similar experiences as mine. I'm going to re-x my spice this weekend to see if I can purify it, but the possibility of my spice having <50% purity seems highly improbable. Thanks for reading, friends.


Hello there!

So... I've never tried such a high dosage, but I can relate to most of what you wrote, especially the part I put in bold.
I really do not think the e-mesh technique is to blame in itself. And users of the GVG have started to put it in a drawer (ask propello for instance...) Maybe, like you suggest, you need to tweak a bit the whole setup. Because, one thing intrigues me in your description: you're talking about 3 hits. When I try and vape 30mg with the e-mesh method, after 20 seconds with the vape in my lungs, I get SO HIGH that I'm physically incapable of taking another hit. So the sole fact that you can put the e-cig up to your mouth a third time makes me wonder. Maybe it's not hot enough?

I have a question, too: what does "re-x" mean? Thanks!

Good luck!
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
Tony6Strings
#10 Posted : 3/2/2020 11:54:13 PM

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Teamleary wrote:
And users of the GVG have started to put it in a drawer (ask propello for instance...)

Confused Wut? Stop

Propello wrote:
The gvg is one of the best tools I have tried so far.



olympus mon wrote:
You need to hit it with intention to get where you want to be!

"We have arrived at truth, and now we find truth is a mystery- a play of joy, creation, and energy. This is source. This is the mystic touchstone that heals and renews. This is the beginning again. This is entheogenic." -Nicholas Sand
 
coAsTal
#11 Posted : 3/3/2020 2:44:52 AM

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Never understood the pissing contest about this e-mesh business.

The GVG has been used by thousands of people-- it works. It's flawless for it's class of manual vape pipe (aside from being breakable glass, I suppose).

Some people have success with/prefer the e-mesh thing, but everyone that does it correctly has success with a GVG. If you don't like a GVG it's not because it doesn't work, it's because you like electric vapes instead.

People that advocate for the e-mesh seem very intent on *moving past* long-proven methods.

That's great if it works for you, I guess.

Best wishes, OP
 
Lampeyelittle
#12 Posted : 3/3/2020 5:22:12 AM

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Teamleary, I think you are correct in that I did not get the coil hot enough. I had burned my lip when originally testing the device, so I think I got too cautious with it. After reading more into it, many people report being able to vaporize 30mg in a single hit. That and some breathing exercises should help me get much larger hits. Smile

I have never used a GVG, so take my opinion as you will, but I feel the main reasoning for advocating the e-mesh method is it's ease of use and safety. A first-time user can hit a properly set-up electronic vaporizer with no hassle, while the GVG takes practice to truly master. Push a button, and blast off. The required practice for the GVG isn't necessarily a bad thing, the ritual of it is admirable. But with many people already owning a vaporizer and it's lower price/skill floor, it's no surprise that many people are drawn to the method.

In addition, the idea of holding an open flame in such an altered state of mind makes me nervous, to be frank. I was always terrified of knocking over my bong when I would smoke changa. Having to handle a hot (and expensive) piece of glass while boarding the train to hyperspace is just not something some newcomers like me are ready to do.

If some people try e-mesh and don't like it, so be it. Some people may try it and may never return to the GVG. If a new method works well and opens the doors for more people to experience this substance, then I believe we should discuss and improve it. It's allowed me to contribute to this forum in ways I never expected, helping people build better coils to improve their DMT experience.

It's not a "pissing contest," e-mesh is not the end-all-be-all for vaporizing DMT. Alternatives to the GVG should exist for those who do not immediately want to invest in a GVG, or simply for those of us who enjoy experimenting and trying something new. It will always come down to personal preference.

Best wishes, and keep doing you.
"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know" - Kansas
 
Teamleary
#13 Posted : 3/3/2020 10:15:18 AM

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Tony6Strings wrote:
Teamleary wrote:
And users of the GVG have started to put it in a drawer (ask propello for instance...)

Confused Wut? Stop

Propello wrote:
The gvg is one of the best tools I have tried so far.





I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I've read multiple times people saying they weren't using the GVG so much since they started the e-mesh method, but that never implied that the GVG wasn't great. I'm sure the GVG is amazing. I just meant that if you don't BT on the e-mesh method, you shouldn't blame the method.
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
Teamleary
#14 Posted : 3/3/2020 10:17:30 AM

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coAsTal wrote:
Never understood the pissing contest about this e-mesh business.

The GVG has been used by thousands of people-- it works. It's flawless for it's class of manual vape pipe (aside from being breakable glass, I suppose).

Some people have success with/prefer the e-mesh thing, but everyone that does it correctly has success with a GVG. If you don't like a GVG it's not because it doesn't work, it's because you like electric vapes instead.

People that advocate for the e-mesh seem very intent on *moving past* long-proven methods.

That's great if it works for you, I guess.

Best wishes, OP


Hey!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I didn't see it as a pissing contest. I'm sure the GVG is amazing if not better. It's just that it's a LOT more expensive. I really did not want to dismiss the GVG, a long proven method as you put it. My bad if I wasn't clear. I just meant that a few people here that are GVG users said they were fullly satisfied by the e-mesh (and so that one shouldn't look for the issue in the device)
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
Teamleary
#15 Posted : 3/3/2020 10:19:45 AM

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Lampeyelittle wrote:
Teamleary, I think you are correct in that I did not get the coil hot enough. I had burned my lip when originally testing the device, so I think I got too cautious with it. After reading more into it, many people report being able to vaporize 30mg in a single hit. That and some breathing exercises should help me get much larger hits. Smile

I have never used a GVG, so take my opinion as you will, but I feel the main reasoning for advocating the e-mesh method is it's ease of use and safety. A first-time user can hit a properly set-up electronic vaporizer with no hassle, while the GVG takes practice to truly master. Push a button, and blast off. The required practice for the GVG isn't necessarily a bad thing, the ritual of it is admirable. But with many people already owning a vaporizer and it's lower price/skill floor, it's no surprise that many people are drawn to the method.

In addition, the idea of holding an open flame in such an altered state of mind makes me nervous, to be frank. I was always terrified of knocking over my bong when I would smoke changa. Having to handle a hot (and expensive) piece of glass while boarding the train to hyperspace is just not something some newcomers like me are ready to do.

If some people try e-mesh and don't like it, so be it. Some people may try it and may never return to the GVG. If a new method works well and opens the doors for more people to experience this substance, then I believe we should discuss and improve it. It's allowed me to contribute to this forum in ways I never expected, helping people build better coils to improve their DMT experience.

It's not a "pissing contest," e-mesh is not the end-all-be-all for vaporizing DMT. Alternatives to the GVG should exist for those who do not immediately want to invest in a GVG, or simply for those of us who enjoy experimenting and trying something new. It will always come down to personal preference.

Best wishes, and keep doing you.


yes, exactly my thought.

side question: do you smoke a lot of weed? I wonder if a daily use of marijuana can build some kind of cerebral tolerance to psychedelics...
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
Teamleary
#16 Posted : 3/3/2020 10:46:15 AM

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Also: what is your setup? wattage, temp, etc.
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
Propello
#17 Posted : 3/3/2020 1:34:07 PM

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There is a very easy way to check and clean the mesh after travelling. If you hold the fire button and there is vapor coming from the mesh, you didn't empty it, there is still spice left.
If you use 3 hits and there still is spice left on the mesh, i suppose your temp/wattage settings are too low.

I Always clean/empty the mesh after vaping.

No need for a pissing contest, as both the GVG and the e-mesh are some of the most effective administration methods existing IMHO. While I have used the gvg a lot, I prefer to use the e-mesh because of the safety - no lighter required and no breakable glass. And as with any other method - If you do it correct it works....

I would consider fine tuning the e-mesh settings before you increase the amount of spice. 60mg is a lot if your spice is good.

Good luck mate.
 
Lampeyelittle
#18 Posted : 3/3/2020 2:29:27 PM

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Teamleary wrote:
side question: do you smoke a lot of weed? I wonder if a daily use of marijuana can build some kind of cerebral tolerance to psychedelics...


I wondered this too. I'm just starting a month-long break break from the plant, so i guess we'll see Smile

Also, I missed your earlier question about what a "re-x" is. It's basically a "re-extraction" to purify your spice more by redissolving it in naphtha. I should have taken a picture of all the gunk that was left over, I can't believe I put that stuff in my lungs.

It seems like I have maxed out my temperature settings with my current coil setup, so it looks like I need to go back to the drawing board for my next coil prototype. I'm trying to fold in some "wings" to make the coil a proper tray, but I think it makes the resistance too low. 315F, 40W (max), 0.09 ohm resistance.
"And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know" - Kansas
 
Propello
#19 Posted : 3/3/2020 4:14:48 PM

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I have been smoking weed/hash pretty much daily for the last 30 years.
In my case the cannabis intake doesn't have much impact on my tolerance of psycedelics (lsd, mushrooms, deems). I break through at 25mg, usually gone for 7-8 minutes with this dosage.
But people are different, and don't want to generalize with an empiric research of 1 subject, me.

Safe travels
 
Teamleary
#20 Posted : 3/3/2020 6:20:58 PM

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Lampeyelittle wrote:
Teamleary wrote:
side question: do you smoke a lot of weed? I wonder if a daily use of marijuana can build some kind of cerebral tolerance to psychedelics...


I wondered this too. I'm just starting a month-long break break from the plant, so i guess we'll see Smile

Also, I missed your earlier question about what a "re-x" is. It's basically a "re-extraction" to purify your spice more by redissolving it in naphtha. I should have taken a picture of all the gunk that was left over, I can't believe I put that stuff in my lungs.

It seems like I have maxed out my temperature settings with my current coil setup, so it looks like I need to go back to the drawing board for my next coil prototype. I'm trying to fold in some "wings" to make the coil a proper tray, but I think it makes the resistance too low. 315F, 40W (max), 0.09 ohm resistance.



Oh ok, thank you very much! Would you be kind enough to tell me how does one re-extract spice? Or is there a tek somewhere? I've looked on nexus before asking you this, but I only found extraction guides...
"How Small A Thought It Takes To Fill A Whole Life"
Wittgenstein
 
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