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SynKyd
#21 Posted : 1/23/2020 11:29:18 PM

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PlantTraveller wrote:
I've been working all day so I'm not able to take apart xxs27's post right now but I would like to state for the record that misgendering someone and spreading transphobic misinformation is not something I want to see on this forum. It doesn't belong here. If it stays, I go


Seems like continuing this conversation will only further demean what the nexus is about, honestly. At least start a new thread in the Politics forum.
At the center of this existence, it is everything and nothing, all of us and each of us and none of us. My light is now lit, and it cannot be extinguished.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
xss27
#22 Posted : 1/23/2020 11:45:45 PM

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PlantTraveller wrote:
I've been working all day so I'm not able to take apart xxs27's post right now but I would like to state for the record that misgendering someone and spreading transphobic misinformation is not something I want to see on this forum. It doesn't belong here. If it stays, I go


You are completely free to dislike, disregard, or disassemble my opinion.

You have absolutely no right to demand the silencing of my opinion or anyone else's simply because you disagree with it. That is a demand straight out of the fascist school of thought, and that has no place on this forum or anywhere in a free society. Please don't pretend that's not what you're implying.

Ironically this is not an uncommon demand amongst wider supporters of the trans cause and one of the reasons why I didn't want to post originally because inevitably it ends up here. But.. any person, group, or movement, deserves and needs to be challenged when they demand silence of contrary opinion.

Sorry mods if that is confrontational in your book but I think I have a right of reply in this circumstance.
 
PlantTraveller
#23 Posted : 1/23/2020 11:59:02 PM

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i'll get into it when i've had some sleep but in the same way that speaking about sourcing on this forum puts us at risk, so does transphobic misinformation. it may not affect YOU personally if you are not trans. but it literally puts the lives of trans people at risk. i know you people like to say that being asked not to spread misinformation that puts peoples' lives at risk is fascism, but would we allow a post here that spread misinformation about certain molecules?

harm reduction, lads, compassion and love...

btw, statistically we all know several trans people, whether we know it or not, and whether we believe their existence to be real or not.


I think that if you are not personally affected by trans issues, you'd be best listening to trans people, and learning how to support them, rather than talking about things you are clueless about. Trans people have always been here and always will be.
Until we are all free, we are none of us free.
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dragonrider
#24 Posted : 1/24/2020 12:46:19 AM

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xss27 wrote:
PlantTraveller wrote:
I've been working all day so I'm not able to take apart xxs27's post right now but I would like to state for the record that misgendering someone and spreading transphobic misinformation is not something I want to see on this forum. It doesn't belong here. If it stays, I go


You are completely free to dislike, disregard, or disassemble my opinion.

You have absolutely no right to demand the silencing of my opinion or anyone else's simply because you disagree with it. That is a demand straight out of the fascist school of thought, and that has no place on this forum or anywhere in a free society. Please don't pretend that's not what you're implying.

Ironically this is not an uncommon demand amongst wider supporters of the trans cause and one of the reasons why I didn't want to post originally because inevitably it ends up here. But.. any person, group, or movement, deserves and needs to be challenged when they demand silence of contrary opinion.

Sorry mods if that is confrontational in your book but I think I have a right of reply in this circumstance.

I don't believe there realy is such a thing as a "trans cause" in the way you seem to think.

Transsexuality has become a politicised topic, but the word "cause" seems to suggest that it would be an ideology that people want to preach and spread.

I don't see that happening anywhere.

What has happened is that on the right, statements have been made, against the acceptence of transgenders, and transgenders have been portrayed as a symbol of how perverted modern society supposedly is and how the notion of accepting individual freedom and diversity is supposed to automatically be an attack on "family values" and to innevitably lead to the downfall of western civilisation as a whole.

And on the left people have responded by making things like "genderneutral" language an issue of the utmost importance, and some people have tried to silence anyone who they believed was attacking transpeople.

I don't see that as a cause. More the typical dynamics of modern politics.
 
hug46
#25 Posted : 1/24/2020 5:36:37 PM

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xss27 wrote:


When you're sick physically you retreat, you isolate, you rest and stop energy expenditure. Psychological healing requires the same approach of removing influences, not adding to them (psychedelics). Not that what I say will change your mind or anyone else's, but I recommend taking a step back, getting your head level, and re-evaluating before making any rash decision about 'gender identity'.


I don't want to get into an argument about transgender and psychological issues but that is sound advice for someone that is looking for healing.

strigiform wrote:
So yeah, a few things are different: I have enough self-love to buy new shoes if my old ones get holes in them. I have enough self-compassion that if I hurt or am real sick, I go to the doctor. When I'm having issues with my partner I talk it out I don't sit on it and let it rot me from the inside out for as long. I still struggle to look at myself in the mirror but I now understand why that is. I'm a little better with my partner, but she is having challenges with me being trans and is scared for what the next steps may look like, for my safety, health, etc. After months of therapy and research on my part I am eager to start treatment for transition. Life is taking a scary, different turn but some of the questions surriounding existential tiredness have been exposed as fatigue from repression! Fear has melted away, the absurd, irrational inner barriers and phobias are left.


I think that you should take longer than a few months to decide on any long term changes. If life is already better, isn't that enough already? Whatever you decide for your journey , i wish you all the best Strigiform.

 
xss27
#26 Posted : 1/24/2020 6:10:56 PM

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hug46 wrote:
I think that you should take longer than a few months to decide on any long term changes. If life is already better, isn't that enough already? Whatever you decide for your journey , i wish you all the best Strigiform.


This.

Unlike spinning out on psychedelics for a few years or even a decade which is largely reversible, this is permanent. Read others stories of unsuccessful transition and how it didn't really solve the underlying causes of their life distress. There are plenty to find, and those are just the ones people have communicated publicly of course.

I'll take flak for this opinion too, but I don't believe people should be using psychedelics to attempt psychological healing on their own. If they do they should tread very lightly and infrequently, and not invest themselves in it without really understanding their mind and limitations first. The problem is though.. no one does. Those who claim they do are kidding themselves. That's why we're all so messed up and lost in the first place, because we don't know ourselves. We are unable to define the part of us we can't examine with the senses.

A psychologist is not you (neither is LSD). Language is a massive barrier and breeds confusion. You have the ability to figure things out on your own by simply removing all the garbage and noise from your life, so you're able to actually see yourself thinking when sitting in silence.

Last post from me in the thread, so I will wish OP well and hope they take some time away from all the noise to try and filter down to the real troubles.
 
Strigiform
#27 Posted : 1/25/2020 2:04:04 AM

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xss27 wrote:


When you're sick physically you retreat, you isolate, you rest and stop energy expenditure. Psychological healing requires the same approach of removing influences, not adding to them (psychedelics). Not that what I say will change your mind or anyone else's, but I recommend taking a step back, getting your head level, and re-evaluating before making any rash decision about 'gender identity'.


Of course, this is good advice. HRT has permanent effects, if I choose to pursue that, all of them sound awesome. Surgeries are also permanent, frankly most of them sound medieval. I want to be clear: this isn't a flight of fancy.

I haven't dosed since that experience. My main therapist wasn't super well-versed in gender issues so I hired a second therapist to discuss the nitty gritty of this. I've spent a lot of time learning about the process of transition, more than you have. I have spent a lot of time learning the stories of others, and trying out things I haven't allowed myself to do in a decade. I'm trying to stage out things so I have time to feel, and time to think about how I feel. I'm not impulsively plunging into this headlong just because I had a funky trip, I'm taking this on in a systematic way with expert advice and lots of time dwelling on it.

Yes I'm aware that transitioning won't solve all my problems.
It will solve at most, exactly one problem, and expose me to a multiplicity of others externally.

hug46 wrote:

I think that you should take longer than a few months to decide on any long term changes. If life is already better, isn't that enough already? Whatever you decide for your journey , i wish you all the best Strigiform.


Well, the "life is already better" part was a progression of realizing my self-worth and engaging in self-care. If I stopped at trip four I would have agreed with you.

I was learning to live in my body in the first four trips, as opposed to "in my head" as my therapist suggested, or as I was experiencing it: "outside my body pushing it around". Learning to be embodied wasn't all that it shaped up to be. My pain tolerance lessened because I cared more, but my discomfort with my body was increasing. Thought patterns of disordered eating screamed, I was feeling really tired, more than physically. Existentially exhausted. I was burning out, because I was always burning out, now the LSD was helping me really feel the consequences of my self-neglect. A piece of me was starting to wonder if maybe now would be a good time to die... (that's when I hired the therapist)

CW: Suicide mention, and maybe you just don't wanna deal with TMI in the next three paragraphs, so skip those if you'd rather

See, ten years ago, I almost killed myself. My life was looking bleak, I felt so hopeless. My parents isolated me completely from reality in their fear of the world and in their religious zeal. I had just acquired access to the internet at 15 years of age. As I learned how to bypass the Jesus Internet Filter and avoid browsing surveillance in the following few years, it became obvious my religious home schooling had likely sabotaged my future. Also, side note: before puberty I was convinced I was a girl, even in the environment I was in and the beatings I received. I even came out and said it to my brothers when I was like, 11. After puberty hit I figured it was too late or impossible to live as a girl. I didn't like the body changes. I went through periods of trying to embrace manhood, but that was like hugging a cactus.

Out of sheer curiosity and spite, I decided to stick around, and to shove the regrets and fears down deep, and hide all aspects of feminine preferences and "rebelliousness" from my parents, so I could move out without being homeless, and maybe be able to go to a college. So with respect to the gender issue, I turned to "dealing with it", which was not working, and to be abundantly clear, has not ever worked.
I began living in a totally morbid way. I figured that I would just off myself if it got too bad, the whole time. I began pushing myself hard in ways that were outrageously neglectful. Money was more important than health, so no doctor visits. Dentist shmentist. My self-worth was zero, but I did seek help when I was having trouble performing. The anxiety and depression were just... incidental. I got diagnosed with ADHD and was given powerful stimulants, which were a mixed bag for how they addressed symptoms, but the risks were easy to consider since I had no care for my awful, ruined body.

Ater I moved out, this acting didn't stop because I was scared. Just being a feminine guy was not a compromise that worked; just being vaguely into girly stuff still outed me as weird. Compromise really meant total compliance with male behavior and nothing on my end. I figured I'd go bald so I buzzed my hair short. I figured well, I have facial hair might as well have fun and tried some things out. I tried so hard to be a man.

If I choose ignore what I know to be true at this point, I would be engaging in something other than self-compassion. I feel ready to continue on this journey of becoming more vulnerable and embodied, and it's clear my hangups on gender were getting in the way. Acknowledging them is powerful for perspective, but that's half the process. You may think it is too soon to, well, okay ... how long is enough?

I'm earnestly asking, because I don't know how one can demonstrate they are trans enough, or more generally, have suffered enough to merit caring about themselves.

Finally, I want to reiterate: the point of this original post was to highlight unexpected positive change with respect to a long-standing issue. Since the transgender element of it is getting a zesty freeze peach controversial reaction, I also agree that a thread should be started in another spot. Because, honestly, I'm not gonna bother to try and unpack: "political philosophy of trans". That's a secret topic for the next transgender political deep state occult meeting -- oh my, which is on the Lunar new year! Hmm, that's real soon.

Anyway, I really would prefer to talk about working through these incredible experiences, integrating them, and doing something interesting with that. It has been interesting hearing the stories of gender experiences being projected into psychedelic experiences, and I'm willing to admit maybe it's possible to read too much into an experience, but this isn't my case, it highlighted how utterly scared I was of something as simple as feeling like being a girl's body. A cis man doesn't think: "Oh no not the girl thoughts again".
 
Jupitor
#28 Posted : 1/25/2020 5:10:15 AM

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Strigiform- Have you ever experienced Cannabis as a psychedelic? It is in my opinion and experience the most somatic psychedelic out there. Working with it with that intention has really connected me with and given me an enhanced appreciation for my body on a level that I have never experienced before. Do you ever wonder what you will discover with your NEXT trip?

***EDIT***

Just saw your post in the Cannabis thread. Seems you do have some experience.

You mentioned that the less "involved" you are, the more things unfold. I have found the opposite to be true with Cannabis, in that the most intense and healing journeys straight up require work. And by that I mean active searching, active questioning (a good question is- What is that?), breath work, body awareness practices, mindfulness practices, etc combined with the power of the flower. CBD tends to dampen the experience for me.
 
Strigiform
#29 Posted : 1/25/2020 6:01:23 AM

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Jupitor, I find cannabis is a pliable and excellent medicine, and yes it tends to be body-focused, even "heady" sativas. I find that I can get a lot out of cannabis in many ways, like I posted in the other thread. I can go deep into a flow (therefore it helps with ADHD, impulsiveness, avoid that spiral of panic and terror), it can help me settle deep into introspection, and to be especially present when doing yoga or meditation. Like you said I can do something very active, intellectually or physically and it enhances it.

And of course, after a tolerance break, it can be acutely intense. Always in a good way Love

Oddly, some CBD-heavy strains like The Wife or a Hemp strain like Lifter affect me with a special extra bodily frisson when mixed with a strong sativa that I can't explain but I'm happy for it. I think the key for strains is about ratios of cannabinoids we've yet to quantify. With that in mind, I think I should try an indica strain again soon. Those can be more body-heavy but I find they can make me sleepy.

Anyway, being present in the body is a consistent thing cannabis brings me to, it has helped me to feel particular relief from anorexic thought patterns, and now with more awareness of myself, the ability to filter dysphoric sensations from the bodily distortions borne of anxiety (what's a gender feel versus an unfair I'm-too-fat feel?). I don't like to meditate on it very often but maybe I should take a deep breath and reap the benefits of trying. I kind of wish I could describe the new awareness of the subtle distinction better, I guess it's like telling sour from bitter after learning what the word "bitter" meant, except instead of taste its like cringing in disgust. It helps because I have to deal with each of those issues differently.

I think it takes the edge off a lot of things, and it can be a crutch, so that has concerned me a little. I suspect that I will benefit from yet another tolerance break soon, especially before adjusting my endocrine system.

 
mooai
#30 Posted : 6/20/2020 7:55:57 AM

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Saw this thread and my interest was piqued enough to reply. I'll preface my post by saying I myself have struggled with trans issues/gender/sexual identity (MtF). I think there are valid points from both sides in the argument so far to be honest. My main issue with all of it is the irreversibility of pumping exogenous/synthetic hormones through the body and getting surgery. I have seriously considered both. I mostly decided against any surgery after reading/seeing some of the horror stories from it, and also one day mostly decided against hormones after reading how serious and prominent the brain structure changes can be in MtF patients after undergoing hormone treatment. The thought of something changing who I am inside, my conscious experience, even my sexuality as is commonly mentioned by trans people after taking hormones, is unsettling to me. I don't feel comfortable talking about this stuff with many people, only close friends once in a while, and definitely not in the trans community where this surgery and hormone stuff gets pushed on you like hot cakes, and I'm in denial for not wanting to change my body permanently with drugs or cutting... Also don't want a therapist which could likely be someone liberal to encourage me which I'm not looking for, or an overly conservative type who would seek to discourage me. I like r/detrans on Reddit, many of the posters are FtM but some MtF with a lot of valuable insights and alternative perspectives on some nuanced topics.

However, I still have a lot of the same feelings which drove me to consider it in the first place. I'm just not happy with any of the solutions given to me by society on either side of the argument. Lately I cross dress as much as possible to be honest, while staying within gender norms enough to not discomfort/alarm people which would just be annoying and I'm not the type of person to want to make anyone feel like that. Women's sweatpants are so much more comfy than mens, much softer and thinner material, try em guys I swear lol. So are women's underwear, and I even like wearing bandeaus/tight calvin klein type bras which for some reason make me feel comfortable. And there's a reason why women nowadays wear tights 24/7, feels like all the benefits of wearing pants while also feeling like you're wearing no pants lol. I guess I'm just a pretty sensitive person and I notice tactile/sensual things like that, I guess that's more often a female trait. I just enjoy the tightness/softness a lot of female clothes have, and the way they feel sexy. Men's clothes can make me feel good about myself and feel attractive as a 'traditional' male. Growing a beard/facial hair can look 'good' in a male way too, but I don't like trying to cultivate that attractiveness, even if other people like it. I personally don't like how it looks on me.

Honestly what I think I'd like most is to look and pass as fully female to where someone might be able to mistake me for being female by my body shape/face. Call me old fashioned but I'm just not willing to take steps to get there with hormones, surgery, implants... Clothes + grooming/shaving helps me feel good about myself/confident a lot. Also have been looking into feminizing herbs, which might soften my skin or slow hair growth. I am still cautious about using those but small amounts especially topically I'm okay with and I don't really feel is a health hazard. It's really largely just a beautification thing for me maybe, and what I define as beautiful is more feminine than most guys I guess. Also primarily attracted to women as well I will add, though especially in my sexual fantasies/experiences I haven't liked taking the totally dominant/standard male role and have enjoyed exploring both more 50/50 dominance and submission with my partners and in sexual fantasies.

Have also wondered if this might be part of a natural evolution of humanity. Hear me out... Look at humans, males a few hundred years ago.. taller, hairier, more aggressive, ready to fight, focused on survival, more 'masculine' than most guys today. Nowadays there are a ton more boyish Justin Bieber type guys in tight jeans, who just wouldn't have survived many years ago. Now we no longer have to have such rough edges, and can in some ways relax, enjoy exploring the softer things in life, express more emotions and be in touch with them. Hundreds or thousands of years ago this just wouldn't be possible in many cases, you'd need to be able to defend yourself and your family, fight for survival. Many of those men would see an even an average non gender questioning guy today as soft or weak. It's maybe a pleasure we can now enjoy, similar to the boom in different professions after the industrial revolution... If you don't have to gather/hunt for food all day and instead can get 1% of the population to provide food for the 99%, the other 99% can do whatever they want. If men don't have to be in survival mode all the time and 1% can defend the 99% (military, government) they can let their softer parts flourish maybe without worrying for their survival/their families survival. Who knows...

Just my perspective and maybe some food for thought. I mostly just posted because I rarely can find a space I feel like I belong or where these ideas feel like they belong. I am happy to see both sides of the argument here and I wish both sides could continue to hear each other out and maybe both compromise/learn from each other a little.
 
tregar
#31 Posted : 6/21/2020 3:10:15 AM

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Appreciate reading your perspective mooai. You have great writing skills.
 
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