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ruhrohraggy
#61 Posted : 1/12/2019 5:11:27 PM
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So I would like to touch upon this one last time...as I have now pondered, considered, dreamt and come to what I feel is my current conclusion...I again, thank the OP and those who have posted once again. A truly fulfilling and mind-opening line of thought.

I have read every single line that's been posted in this thread...and it's been fascinating.

I'll kick this last train of thought off with this : The result of my previous "ramblings" was a product of a very strong paradigm shattering DMT experience that I have been struggling to grasp for some days...

I was picking up my shattered pieces here...and this seemed like a warm and welcoming place to ponder, receive input and do so...since it tied in with my trip, and the OP comes from a place I once was. I figured if anyone could talk some sense into me again, well, it was them.

I did not mean to disrupt the OP, it happened...and we can be such selfish things...

So I would like to take the expansive mess I was trying to wade through and "try" to condense it into reasonable and readable terms...as sort of an apology to those that chose to wade through these earlier "ramblings".

I'm sure you've heard of Sam Harris right? He's like...the modern day pusher of this notion of pre-determination. He has a very good argument and when I first heard him...I felt the notion free-will literally sucked out of me...

I finally gave up after an existential crisis and gave in to it. I wandered around for some time without free-will...and Sure, it felt GREAT! at first...but a piece of the puzzle was always missing for me...A small emptyness. It never faded, I don't know why. It gnawed at me.

I am also avid student of modern day science (I partook in a Bachelor's program for mechanical engineering). I was puzzled when I learned about the oddities of quantum mechanics. And the concept that at the sub-atomic, and multi-dimensional level...things were not as pre-determined as we may have thought.

Recently, I acquired and partook in DMT. One of the breakthrough trips shattered my longstanding comfort zone. My consciousness relayed to me a very simple concept of infinite *possibilities*. This small growing emptyness in the back of my mind spoke to me, and then it showed me the potential for what it might be like....

So what is a possibility? In science, this is something that cannot be fully dis-proven. while fact or law is something that is observed as true and cannot be unequivocally disproven. (This is the opposite of most western society's moral and judicial codes, but for good reason...)

A possibility is something that is true, until un-equivecally proven false...when we find it can no longer be proved false (we have found an absolute truth) then it becomes law.

It does not mean everyone should agree on a possibility, because then you remove the ability to prove that possibility false. But they should at least accept the possibility is there.

"Consider all possibilities..."

The 3 words that shattered me into a million bits...Thanks brain...but what did that mean?

Since we cannot unequivecally disprove the concept free-will at the current time...because there is no current way we can consider all states of the universe all at once when it comes time to pull our choice, or decision out of the ether...then the possibility of free-will exists. We also cannot fully disprove the possibility of a pre-determined path existing either...so it too, must still exist.

I was torn from my sweet nexus of absolute viewership. Like I said, I do know where OP is coming from. I was literally just there...

This is what was relayed to me, and what I've been struggling to wrap my mind around...but I think I've got a handle on it, for now...and find myself feeling centered once again.

So that was my epiphany. Currently, with what we know (or don't know),we can experience both free-will, and a pre-determined path simultaneously...because both of these things are currently a possibility. To say otherwise, would require you to fully disprove either of them, which we just can't do yet. And that does not discount the things we don't know either. We may be subjected to some 3rd, 4th, or 198521th concept we don't know yet.

But at the very least, the implications of this allows us to be held responsible for our actions, and our sense and feeling of morality remains an obligation. But who is responsible? I feel that anyone who walks towards a path of enlightenment should be held responsible.

With this train of thought, it could be said that we are all responsible for someone elses evil, if we had the ability to prevent it, but chose not to do so, because it is indeed a choice, whether it is a free choice, or a pre-determined choice set forth by a continuous, repeated training of desired moral values.

A child commits evil. Who's responsibility was it? It was the responsibility of their parents, their teacher. Who was responsible for the parent's act of evil? They are no longer children...though you could still blame their parents, it also becomes the responsibility of the one's seeking enlightenment around them...

Us. It's our responsibility.

As you become an individual seeking enlightenment...You are then subjected to your own personal responsibility for your evil. Because you have taken it upon yourself to correct it.

So we are all responsible, and held accountable for our evil, are we not?

We are both observers, and doers. We are any of the current possibilities and more. Because we are a small anomaly in this grand machine. A kink in the system, but also, a natural part in it. For that is what the system must surely want, otherwise we would not be here. Because we are the system, and we are here.

And how do I know this? Well, I don't know. We don't know. Nobody definitively knows...

So the realm of infinite possibility is still open. And this is a twinge I felt in the back of my brain when I witnessed someone after this DMT experience, who thought they "KNEW" beyond a shadow of a doubt, even though an opposing possibility still exists.

So what? So...our purpose as a collective, should then be to strive to figure this out...But that's what we've been doing. It' been the case, for as far back as you look at humanity from a historical perspective.

We all walk our own paths. We are "free" to fulfill our individual sense of purpose in life.

Not one person should have their individual purpose forced upon them...If you would like to walk a "pre-determined" path, then you are predetermined to do so. If I want to walk a "free" path, then I am free to do so. But both individuals are still subjected to the realm of possibility.

But the aggregate purpose, the collective, averaged sum has still remained the same...To seek out truths, and discover this realm of infinite possibility for ourselves.

By the way, I mean free in both senses. While we have the liberty to do so afforded by our circumstances, and the grace afforded to us by this universe.

That is...until we can either confirm, or squash these possibilities out of existence.

So most of what I've said actually does not change...even in hindsight. Was this pre-determined? Possibly. Was it free will? Probably. But as of yet, not definitely, or absolutely.

Can we make sense of this? Not yet. But we are trying! We are seeking truth. And that to me is all that matters, until we finally do "know".

So I'll reiterate. We are in the actualization phase of God, a state of paradox, duality, whatever you want to call it. And we are trying to reach this understanding of singularity.

Hell may exist, it is definitely a possibility. Though I still think the notion is stupid, I cannot deny it. Do I think we are in hell? No...I am on Earth, I am living, loving and progressing forward. And this makes me incredibly happy.

Whether or not we can affirm God, free-will, pre-determination...That is the challenge set forth for conscious life, set forth by the universe. And we must collectively overcome our evils if we are to get there...Which is part of our choice, to do so as collective Agents.

And this system has an observbable, built-in failsafe. It expands from singularity...and life inevitably ensues. Life gives this grand, universal challenge it's best shot...and since we are birthed from the flesh of this universe, then it can be extended to this idea :

The universe is trying to understand itself...

To seek truth.

If it fails, if we fail, then it simply returns to a source and is reconfigured... expanding once more with a different set of starting parameters, and we get to try it again...A realm of ever-cycling, ever-repeating infinite possibility. Until an iteration of consciousness evolves that can overcome this evil, and reach the finish line...

And maybe that's it's big question...Can evil truly be overcome? Because in order to get to the end, that's what's gonna have to happen I think...But I think we may already have a possible answer...because a singularity exists...so evil must have been overcome at one point...right? This gives me great hope!

But what's the point of all that? The point, is existence. To simply, experience. And we are afforded a grand, possibly un-achieveable, overarching purpose. Because without purpose, conscious entities give up, there is no more will to live...

To seek out this singularity. I think the prize offered up could be an interesting one.

It could be to "Create" a new singularity of our very own. It could be total enlightenement and nirvana. It could be a many number of things...

A simulation? Sure. but that's a concept we either made up or discovered. I'm fine taking place in this simulation, because I like games. Games are fun.

 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Jupitor
#62 Posted : 1/12/2019 10:50:51 PM

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To the OP-

You’re not the only one here who as seen what you have seen or been where you have been.

You ask where you are. You are in fear. You are in a hypothetical future which you are certain is an inevitability. Come back to the HERE and NOW.

You are god but so is everyone else. So let go of the ego trip.

You saw something that seemed beyond real and so you take it for absolute truth. I suggest a healthy dose of skepticism in all things.

In order to see something for what it is, you need to be separate from that thing. For example, you can’t see the whole of the earth unless you leave it and observe from a distance. If you saw duality as a whole, could it be that you were above it? And if that is true, then it must mean that there are places that exist beyond it.

Get over yourself. You’re not as enlightened as you think you are.
 
xrrv
#63 Posted : 1/13/2019 10:34:00 AM

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DmnStr8
#64 Posted : 1/13/2019 2:05:39 PM

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xrrv wrote:
I have one more question:

I asked you what would have happened if you would have transcended your body and you said it would be death and no return to the body. I believe that if you would have transcended the body it would be enlightenment and you would be in another realm.

What do you believe would have awaited you there? Bliss or suffering? Almost "eternal" bliss?


I think it would be death. That is what it felt like would occur if I went further. I don't know what would have happened. I am not meant to be there quite yet. I have many theories as to what occurs if you transcend your body. Never been there so I have to say I do not know.

I believe what awaits in death is birth and life. I think it's all the same thing. It will contain everything that is contained within us now. As I mentioned before I think what awaits is gratitude. I really mean that because that is how I felt as death was coming in. Not just me being grateful for my life, but the entire universe reveling in it. A celebration.
"In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link." ~Carlos Castaneda
 
xss27
#65 Posted : 1/13/2019 6:54:42 PM

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xrrv wrote:
However, you are perfectly right. I do not understand what the Absolute is because I just had a "glimpse". I have not been there in my entirety. Neither have you, otherwise you would not be in that human realm but have transcended that body-mind. Honestly, I don't know if you have or have not transcended that body-mind, but I just don't believe you have. Have you?


Let me put it like this; I've had a glimpse, I know which direction I need to look in, but I haven't committed to making the leap. The thing is you can't remain immersed in that Absolute state, you have to come back and grub like every other animal until the day you physically die.

xrrv wrote:
When I meditate there is sometimes a state of awareness only. It also just is. I call it the mini-Absolute. It feels good, not bad. All things put aside, I believe the Absolute FEELS much more like being blissful than it feels like suffering. There is an absence of the latter for sure.


Are you really feeling bliss though, or just enjoying the echoes of a now absent of suffering? I think if you were immersed there long enough you would just level out and forget the memory of suffering entirely and at that point just be.

xrrv wrote:
Why exactly is that 50:50 thing a "false question and obsession, not a reality"? Can you please explain (again)?

In the theory of randomness, everything is combined with everything else. No possibility is left out. That is how the universe works. If no possibility is left out, you will get an accumulation of hellish existences at some point in the universe. It is common sense. That accumulation is the abyss. The same logic applies to the bliss. Duality. Don't know why you say that such considerations are not a reality. For me, it is reality.


For you it is a reality, sure. It is not my experience nor have I read that anywhere in anyone elses experience reports or literature. You could be right, but from my perspective your concept appears as a single instance in the historical record.

The focus on dualism, hierarchies, and especially logic, in your posts/concept suggests to me that you are projecting through the lens of the human brain-mind mechanism. We think in terms of opposites. In short, your writing/concept is too human and I think you're caught there with this mental fixation.
 
xrrv
#66 Posted : 1/14/2019 10:27:19 AM

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xrrv
#67 Posted : 1/14/2019 12:26:47 PM

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ruhrohraggy
#68 Posted : 1/14/2019 6:16:32 PM
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Should check out the writings / works of a dude called Itzhak Bentov if you haven't already.

He seems to put forth a very interesting idea regarding this.

I felt no resistance to the ideas presented...they seemed very possible.

He is also coming from a place of humility, meditation, and science.
 
xrrv
#69 Posted : 1/18/2019 10:09:11 AM

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xrrv
#70 Posted : 1/25/2019 7:19:44 AM

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Exitwound
#71 Posted : 1/25/2019 2:41:48 PM

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xrrv wrote:
No replies anymore. Why?

Probably because there is no point arguing with someone with solipsistic views.

xrrv wrote:

My Near-death experience showed me that I am all alone.

My DMT experience once had me working and living as a part of a community of fractal and self-bending aliens, working at one of their reality assembly facilities, therefore this must be true.

xrrv wrote:
It is not possible for god

Thumbs up


xrrv wrote:

Please help to keep this thread alive by giving replies. I would still like to know where I am.


On a serious note: I think you are a little bit delusional right now. You should probably take a break off any mind-altering substances and give it more time for your experiences to fully integrate.
 
AcaciaConfusedYah
#72 Posted : 1/25/2019 2:54:04 PM

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Quote:
Please help to keep this thread alive by giving replies. I would still like to know where I am.


You're in a realm of subjectivity. While it's fine and dandy that you feel you're the only person with awareness, it's gonna be crushing when you realize you're no different than anyone else. Often called the messiah complex. We see it a lot here. It's usually ignored, until 6 months to year later (sometimes longer), when "god" realizes he/she is a human and goes into total existential melt-down.

Personal truths. We all have 'em, but they are not objective, or absolute. Personal truth is a fancy way of saying "beliefs." Basically, we experience something that is "more real than reality," and then begin developing these ideas.

No one is "mad" at you for having the messiah complex. They are giving you space for you to figure it out on your own. As mentioned, we've seen this countless times. At this point, you've likely lost the audience. Don't feel bad. You're not alone - plenty of people have thought the exact same thing as you. Hehe, sure - I even toyed with the idea at one time. I quickly realized that it was leading to unhealthy expectations.

Take Care,
ACY


Something to consider:

"I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty.

You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house;
and you walk from one holy city to the next with a confused look!

Kabir will tell you the truth: go wherever you like, to Calcutta or Tibet;
if you can't find where your soul is hidden,
for you the world will never be real!" -- Kabir
Have a great day!
 
Fidelsbeard
#73 Posted : 1/25/2019 11:52:44 PM

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xrrv wrote:


I believe there is a misunderstanding between "eternal" and "infinite".

definition of "eternal":
A very long time period which eventually ends.

definition of "infinite":
A time period which never ends. For example: time is infinite.

So when I talked of eternal hell I meant a state of suffering which will end.


Eternal means lasting or existing forever, without end...
 
DmnStr8
#74 Posted : 1/26/2019 12:28:06 AM

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“The decisive question for man is: Is he related to something infinite or not? That is the telling question of his life. Only if we know that the thing which truly matters is the infinite can we avoid fixing our interests upon futilities, and upon all kinds of goals which are not of real importance. Thus we demand that the world grant us recognition for qualities which we regard as personal possessions: our talent or our beauty. The more a man lays stress on false possessions, and the less sensitivity he has for what is essential, the less satisfying is his life. He feels limited because he has limited aims, and the result is envy and jealousy. If we understand and feel that here in this life we already have a link with the infinite, desires and attitudes change.”
― C.G. Jung
"In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link." ~Carlos Castaneda
 
xrrv
#75 Posted : 1/26/2019 9:09:14 AM

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PsyDuckmonkey
#76 Posted : 1/26/2019 6:53:35 PM

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Honestly, you should really go speak to a psychiatrist, you owe it to yourself.
Antipsychotics will probably help you live your life normally again.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
xrrv
#77 Posted : 1/26/2019 7:35:18 PM

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AcaciaConfusedYah
#78 Posted : 1/26/2019 8:10:08 PM

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Quote:
where is the point of proving that I am god? The universe basically does not care who god is. Only I can know myself if I am god or not. No one else, nothing external, can prove it. The universe works as if I am not even there.


Alright. Fair enough. Might I ask the purpose of this discussion if you've got "nothing to prove?"

Usually people don't make such claims unless they are seeking confirmation from others.

I may have missed it, there is a lot of dialogue. Why bother suggesting it if it had no intention of being proven?

It doesn't seem like you're trying to EXPLORE an idea; rather it sounds like you're trying to say: this is absolute!

So, why?

Take Care,
ACY
Have a great day!
 
xrrv
#79 Posted : 1/26/2019 8:43:16 PM

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AcaciaConfusedYah
#80 Posted : 1/26/2019 10:53:29 PM

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Ok, let's play on this for a moment:

Quote:
The universe does not care because it would work without me. Why should I then care if others see me as god? No one cares. And even if someone does "care", that time will also be over. No god in the universe will keep its position as god


In a way, I will agree on this. I actually mentioned some of my thoughts in a different post that relate to this.

Quote:
My favorite theory is that the "universe" is just trying to experience itself in as many/or all subjective ways possible within the limiting and physical restrictions. Our constructs are just one of the many ways that the quantum weirdness expresses itself. Maybe it's not too different from some of your beliefs, but I feel like you apply too much emotion into these beliefs. I don't mean emotion like "love" or "hate" - but a fear that you may be wrong. How do you feel about being wrong? Are you comfortable admitting when you are wrong? Would you be willing to admit that you are wrong if there were to be some sort of unified observable data that would prove your theory incorrect? I only ask, because I know that I am wrong quite often. By being wrong, I my feel disappointed in myself, but I am also opening my mind to learn something new.
.......
When people have a void – such as the feelings associated with existential crisis/questioning, they want to fill that void with something. They will often fill it with an emotion and idea. The voids are created from temporary awareness of our true ignorance. Once we're aware of our void/ignorance, we try to fill it with a model - piece together the gaps. This construct can be a result of many things - such as social activities, musical preference, art, hobbies, TV shows, conspiracy theories on the internet..... and it goes on. So, people say, "Oh crap, I DON'T know what I thought I knew. What is the easiest answer that creates the least amount of cognitive dissonance?" --- NOT! People don't say that! or think that! they just do it. Without thinking. People will use their immediate influences and construct a mental model to easily fill the gaps that have been created from moments of temporary awareness of our true ignorance.
.......
I hope you don't take my words as negative criticism. I wanted to convey my perspective and do so in an honest manner. It's ok to have disagreeing beliefs about these ideas. Healthy communication and collaboration helps us move further away from ignorance. When one closes their mind off from being able to learn, then they are accepting ignorance and accepting a constructed model, from which their own mind created. Upon collaboration, then the model can be proposed. After speculation and thorough investigation, it is either accepted by the consensus, or the idea is rejected. In my opinion, a singular person cannot construct a model that fills the void that has been created by the mystery of the universe.


So, those are a few of my thoughts that I shared to a friend, but they coincidentally apply here, as well.

I am willing to say that I am wrong about my theories. I may believe them to be true. I may even call them "personal truths," but I also leave room for error.

Maybe it is something that you would like to do as well?

I am not trying to poke at you, I am genuinely curious at this point. Pending your reply, I'll engage further, or... I'll just let you have the last word. Smile

Take Care,
ACY


P.S. There are no rules broken by suggesting a user of the forum to seek medical help from a professional. It's actually encouraged to suggest that rather than saying, "go see a shaman."
Have a great day!
 
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