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ava69
#41 Posted : 5/13/2021 2:40:11 AM

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Part 11: 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report, +5 Shulgin scale



The experiment was a success...I took the 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg of HPBCD all kneaded/crushed using end of another spoon...and mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.500 milliliter of VERY HOT near boiling water (around 10 drops of water). What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette. I read using hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug.

I added the 0.5ml spoon full completely clear HPBCD DMT solution to 2oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 2oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.

I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.

It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.

A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.

I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.

In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.

During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.

The combination of the two (oral THH taken 1 hour earlier) and sublingual under the tongue DMT for 15 minutes results in the "full monty", will give you an experience like strong cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, the full mind expansion transcendence. This is what a lot of people don't understand, is that Ayahuasca is teamwork between the various alkaloids.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of its remarkable visionary properties. It's an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, it's what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and hours of dream-like realistic closed eye visionary visions.

DMT according to two studies posted in part 2 does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does (like ibogaine, cactus, LSD, mushrooms), serotonin blocking results in stimulation and the breaking down of the survival filters or barriers in the mind, the combination of the two results in not just 20% receptor stimulation from the DMT alone, but 100% receptor stimulation, as 5-ht1a inhibition (serotonin blockage) makes up over 80% of brain 5-ht according to LSD scientist Dr. Nichols. Tetrahydroharmine has also been shown to agonize the A2A-A2C receptors, just like mescaline, they have numerous receptorome similarities.

You will notice with the combination of the two that music sounds incredible, closed eye visions are seen like those of "true Ayahuasca" described in "Antipodes of the Mind" by Benny Shanon, or cactus tea. Open eyed beauty is profound, impossible neon colors not seen on this earth become apparent.

With a combination 250mg oral tetrahydroharmine dosage, and sublingual HPBCD DMT dosage of 50mg, when I waved my hand, I saw colored fractals inside the tracers. The duration is long with the sublingual DMT, it comes on in 1/2 the time of an oral dose, and you need much less of the drug than what is needed orally with a RIMA. One of the best parts is that I experience no nausea.

Out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

Update at 8pm 5/12/21 around 5 hours later same night, the 250mg 10.5 hour half-life tetrahydroharmine (THH) was still active in my body.

Took sublingual 35mg DMT complexed to 245mg HPBCD on a spoon with less than 0.25ml (only 5 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water, this was using water that was pre-heated up in microwave in coffee cup, then taken up with end of pipette, and dropped onto spoon with the HPBCD powder/DMT crystals. I kneaded, mashed & mixed it all together using end of a spoon for 2 minutes.

It ALL dissolved into a clear sticky solution after mashing it with end of spoon for 2 minutes--I drew it up from spoon using pipette and placed drops under tongue. It felt like all the DMT dissolved into bloodstream, experienced great effects held under tongue for 15 minutes--sweet taste, as the outer shell of HPBCD is formed from a sugar molecule--no burn! It mostly masked the taste of the nasty DMT.

5 minutes after the 15 minute sublingual period, my heart rate & pulse greatly increased, pupils dilated when I looked in mirror, had colored CEV visuals and long CEV lingering after images, open eyed beauty was profound, music sounded incredible once again, felt euphoria and elation. Zero nausea.

Highly recommend complexing DMT to HPBCD for oral use, which simulates actual very strong (+5 Shulgin scale) hawaiian psychotria leaf brew imho, as I've had over 70 hawaiian psychotria + Caapi journeys in the past over many years, or for sublingual use. The HPBCD complexed DMT imho absorbs many factors better than plain DMT freebase or DMT salts in the body, as I have over a dozen experiences with the oral freebase and DMT formed salts in the past for oral use (all only +3 on Shulgin scale). I was blown away by the oral & sublingual HPBCD DMT.

Oral use: 1:1 molar ratio of host drug DMT to HPBCD powder = 1:7 DMT to HPBCD mg weight ratio (70mg DMT to 490mg HPBCD)

SublinguaL: 1:1 molar ratio of host drug DMT to HPBCD powder = 1:7 DMT to HPBCD mg weight ratio (35mg DMT to 245mg HPBCD)

245mg of HPBCD powder may look like alot when laid out, but when even just a few drops of hot water is added to it, it shrinks into a small sticky clear liquid mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use.

Highly recommend HPBCD complexed DMT.

At 9pm that same night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...for around 45 minutes I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Medieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like slow speed movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.

I agree that 300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline (as reported in TIHKAL), but without the nausea and dizziness, but it's not especially visual until say 250 to 300mg, then it gives one 1.5 to 2 hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places it very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.

It's like entering a university, she teaches you for hours with not only sequential visions one after another, but visions seen in continuous slow and high speed movies. She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.

Seveal weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.

I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.

Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful for the first 45 minutes. You can take additional THH hours laters to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.

I always take 250mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) orally around 1 hour before the sublingual harmine + DMT for a "true Ayahuasca journey experience."

Just like Professor8 said back in 2010, she (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration or whole-body frequency (this is really felt strongly) in a most powerful way. She brings a diamond-like crystalline prismy texture & super clear watery dimension to Ayahuasca, like looking down through 10 meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. She brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order.

PICS:

1) 1kg tub of HPBCD.

2) 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD is what studies recommend (1:7mg DMT to HPBCD weight ratio).

3) HPBCD is like a waterpark tornado ride that traps the host drug inside the cone.

4) cartoon illustrates how it forms "sticky liquid complexes" with DMT.

5) Bright out of this world impossible neon colors are a trait of high dose tetrahydroharmine (THH) + DMT.

6) HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used 70mg DMT to 490mg HPBCD in 10 drops for oral use...or the 35mg DMT to 245mg HPBCD in 5 drops very hot water I used for sublingual use.

7) During the oral Ayahuasca journey described above (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.

8] Steps in the complexing of HPBCD to DMT

9) 300mg plus of THH showed me closed eye vision of gardens in front of Versailles, France

10) 2 women with tongue exposed. 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine can be taken 1 hour orally beforehand...then sublingual 65mg harmine freebase + 40mg DMT + 670mg HPBCD all complexed and kneaded/mixed/mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon with many drops of very hot near boiling water can be used sublingually to form a clear liquid to hold under tongue for 15 minutes for sublingual use...to simulate Ayahuasca, in order to avoid the slight couple hour dizziness from using say 200mg oral harmine.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
HPBCD.JPG (59kb) downloaded 669 time(s).
40.JPG (174kb) downloaded 665 time(s).
10.JPG (85kb) downloaded 665 time(s).
100.JPG (36kb) downloaded 664 time(s).
HPBCD solubility.JPG (24kb) downloaded 654 time(s).
For the first hour, all objects shown as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.JPG (77kb) downloaded 649 time(s).
57.JPG (71kb) downloaded 605 time(s).
300mg plus of THH showed me CEV of gardens at Versailles, France.JPG (83kb) downloaded 603 time(s).
Example, HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent..JPG (26kb) downloaded 597 time(s).
sublingual.JPG (33kb) downloaded 514 time(s).
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
ava69
#42 Posted : 5/17/2021 8:45:15 PM

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The formed complex liquid will remain stable indefinitely in a tincture, it can be frozen. Don't leave in fridge for more than a few days or bacteria could grow.

I'm taking 250mg THH orally one hour beforehand, then will take the 35mg harmine + 40mg dmt (75mg total alkaloids) all complexed to 490mg HPBCD powder (forms a 0.500ml or 10 drop solution after 2 minutes of kneading or mashing the mix on a spoon using very hot water drops using end of spoon) held under tongue for 15 minutes, and report results tonight, along with pics of the process.

This being done to simulate "true Ayahuasca" but hopefully without experiencing "the slight dizziness and heaviness" I experience from using 200mg oral harmine. THH causes me no nausea or dizziness whatsoever at 250mg, so I love to use it in combination all the time, imho 250mg THH is very similar to 250mg of mescaline, very beautiful compound. It combines extremely well with DMT.

Have over several weeks experienced 30mg, 35mg and 50mg sublingually and 70mg orally, trip reports above in this thread. The HPBCD DMT absorbs very well under tongue, but I am trying the above to see if the harmine will MAX OUT the activation of the sublingual DMT, hopefully resulting in maximum powerful Ayahuasca, identical to oral potent Hawaiian psychotria effects, which I have over 70 experiences. The harmine also has nice effects (like being in a relaxing hot tub) on it's own which I wish to include.

This will be my last post, as I need to head back to the gym & water park over the summer.

I will leave it up to the rest of you to experiment should you wish to. I love the HPBCD DMT so much, that I will continue to use it the rest of my life. I'm a very visual person, and love good music, that's why I like to show lots of pics. Ayahuasca is a great way to stay Psychedelic for the rest of your life.

Stay true to yourself. Love, peace and music
http://friskyradio.com

Ready for tonight:

1) 35mg harmine + 40mg DMT + 490mg HPBCD laid out

2) 75mg alkaloids + 490mg HPBCD put in spoon

3) 10 drops (0.500ml) near boiling water added from a nearby coffee cup, used the end of a spoon to knead, mash & stir it all together for 2 minutes, light brownish liquid formed, stored in fridge till ready. Alternately, a mortar & pestal can be used to knead & crush/stir the alkaloids into the HPBCD.

4) Tonight: take 250mg tetrahydroharmine 1 hour before, then place 0.5ml solution under tongue, hold for 15 minutes, 5 minutes later harmine + fully activated 40mg DMT should be felt strongly, for 60 to 90 minutes of strong effects. Re-dose again later if want to.
 
ava69
#43 Posted : 5/18/2021 12:16:29 AM

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Results:

1) The HPBCD harmine + DMT sucked really bad, I think the harmine interfered not only with the complexing of the DMT but also the absorption of the DMT under tongue, will never repeat again, effects were very mild.

2) So then, 1 hour later I complexed 60mg of DMT to 420mg of HPBCD, shown in pics, held under tongue for 15 minutes, and it began to come on in only 10 minutes, beautiful strong effects! Now that's more like it, long duration about 90 minutes total. As usual, took 250mg THH 1 hour before. Bad ass!

Experienced PHENOMENAL strength, active for 90 minutes, profound open eyed beauty, maxed out dilated pupils, heavy CEV imagery, music incredible, very euphoric.

3) So my favorites are:

* For oral use: 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD using 10 very hot water drops, mashed all together on spoon for 2 minutes, then add this to 2oz of hot water containing 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine + 150mg pure ascorbic acid (vit c) to help dissolve freebase harmalas = 10 out of 10, this gives an experience identical to using 30 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria, I've had over 70 Ayahuasca journeys using Caapi + hawaiian psychotria, and this was no different! zero nausea and went down in one gulp--taste was pretty much non-existent. All of my dozen 70 to 120mg freebase or DMT salt used orally with Caapi were all only +3 on shulgin scale, all very mild. This on the other hand was a +5 on Shulgin scale, just as strong as the leaf and all encompassing like the leaf. See trip report on post #25.Thumbs up

I'm glad to discover this, as for years all the dried Hawaiian psychotria has been extinct, I think it has all been diverted to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America.

* For sublingual use: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD using 10 very hot water drops, mashed all together on spoon for 2 minutes, then pour this under tongue and hold for 15 minutes = 9 out of 10, very awesome strength and zero nausea, it stings a little, but the results are worth it, at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out all the saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing...nice long 90 minutes duration. Thumbs up
 
ava69
#44 Posted : 5/19/2021 1:21:31 PM

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Part 12: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours


Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and the sting is terrible. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you only feel a mild sting for around 10 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 2 minutes mashing on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water and poured under tongue, use your finger to rub any liquid from the spoon under your tongue as well, in case any is left...and hold for 15 minutes, begins to work in only 10 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 2 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven...Smile

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 2 hours I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. Shocked
ava69 attached the following image(s):
Ayahuasca here.JPG (53kb) downloaded 470 time(s).
 
shroombee
#45 Posted : 5/19/2021 7:26:07 PM

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ava69, thanks for all the great information! The double posting of the same content in different threads is a little hard to follow though. I'm compelled to scan through again to ensure I didn't miss anything. Perhaps just posting in one place and then linking from the other threads.

I have THH and HPBCD arriving shortly to give this a try. Do you now have a preference or recommendation between oral DMT/HPBCD/harmine/THH/Vit-C versus sublingual DMT/HPBCD?

BTW, my favorite photo you posted is the beautiful shaman woman. Thumbs up
 
ava69
#46 Posted : 5/19/2021 7:44:44 PM

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Shroombee said:
Quote:
Thanks for all the great information! The double posting of the same content in different threads is a little hard to follow though. I'm compelled to scan through again to ensure I didn't miss anything. Perhaps just posting in one place and then linking from the other threads.

I have THH and HPBCD arriving shortly to give this a try. Do you now have a preference or recommendation between oral DMT/HPBCD/harmine/THH/Vit-C versus sublingual DMT/HPBCD?

BTW, my favorite photo you posted is the beautiful shaman woman.

Thanks so much Shroombee. I didn't know where to post this cause it seems to fit not only under Ayahuasca but Pharmahuasca, confused! I like the Shaman woman too & the greenish rock she is holding.

So glad you have it coming in...very glad you will give this a try. Great question, my preference is now the 300mg THH taken orally one hour before, then taking sublingual 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times every 2 hours during the night, but next time I will start earlier in the day, so I am not up all night--it is relaxfully stimulating, but hard to get to sleep if you take it all too late.

I prefer it over the oral 200mg harmine + 250 to 300mg THH + 70mg oral DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD only because the oral formula causes me some heaviness and slight dizziness for a few hours--all due to the harmine for me.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

The above 250mg to 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before + 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD "under the tongue sublingual for 15 minutes" causes ZERO dizziness and ZERO nausea--it's so bad ass! my new favorite, now I can save my cactus for when I only go out to the waterpark or river, this HPBCD Ayahuasca is great for at home.

p.s. I suggest not taking more than 250mg THH orally your first time, for me there is no dizziness at 250mg and none anymore at 300mg (cause I use it so often), but if it's your first time, 300mg may cause you a tiny bit of short lasting mild dizziness.

The closed eye visions went on for 5 hours, THH has a half life of 10.5 hours, so now you see how the DMT in combo with the THH resulted in mind-blowing colored CEV visions for such a long time, just blown away, still in shock Shocked 2 days later from the visual power of the combination. This was beyond a +5 on the Shulgin scale for me easily.
 
shroombee
#47 Posted : 5/20/2021 11:17:31 PM

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ava69, thanks for your reply! I will go with your recommendation of 250 mg THH orally followed by DMT complexed to HPBCD. A few questions:

1) I have plenty of experience with mescaline and shrooms, including ludicrous heroic doses. But my only experience with DMT is some 12-15 mg vaping runs with the GVG or e-mesh. I haven't done Ayahuasca yet although I just acquired the caapi and chacruna. Was planning to start low with just caapi (no DMT) per ms_manic_minxx's recommendations. I have freebase DMT extracted from MHRB.

What's your recommendation for the amount of DMT to use for these initial (THH + DMT + HPBCD) trials? I have a trip sitter but I want this to be more in-control and self-guiding. Like a moderate shroom trip.

2) (2-Hydroxypropyl)-Beta-Cyclodextrin is easy to find online and commonly referred to as HPBCD. CAS #128446-35-5 with molecular formula C44H75O36.

Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin is more difficult to locate with CAS #94035-02-6 with molecular formula C54H102O39.

Sometimes I see the (2-Hydroxpropyl)-BCD (CAS #128446-35-5) referred to as simply "Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin (HPBCD)", even though it seems it should technically be referred to as (2-Hydroxypropyl)-BCD.

I noticed your container says Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin, but I don't recognize the CAS #. It says "CODE #410-903"?

Did you specifically seek out the more difficult-to-find Hydroxypropyl-BCD (CAS #94035-02-6) rather than the more commonly available (2-Hydroxypropyl)-BCD (128446-35-5)?

3) Are you aware there are reports of HPBCD causing hearing loss? I'm trying to figure out whether the dosages and method of administration in these studies are relevant to our context.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...mc/articles/PMC5676048/
 
ava69
#48 Posted : 5/21/2021 2:04:36 PM

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shroombee said:
Quote:
ava69, thanks for your reply! I will go with your recommendation of 250 mg THH orally followed by DMT complexed to HPBCD. A few questions:

1) I have plenty of experience with mescaline and shrooms, including ludicrous heroic doses. But my only experience with DMT is some 12-15 mg vaping runs with the GVG or e-mesh. I haven't done Ayahuasca yet although I just acquired the caapi and chacruna. Was planning to start low with just caapi (no DMT) per ms_manic_minxx's recommendations. I have freebase DMT extracted from MHRB.

What's your recommendation for the amount of DMT to use for these initial (THH + DMT + HPBCD) trials? I have a trip sitter but I want this to be more in-control and self-guiding. Like a moderate shroom trip.

2) (2-Hydroxypropyl)-Beta-Cyclodextrin is easy to find online and commonly referred to as HPBCD. CAS #128446-35-5 with molecular formula C44H75O36.

Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin is more difficult to locate with CAS #94035-02-6 with molecular formula C54H102O39.

Sometimes I see the (2-Hydroxpropyl)-BCD (CAS #128446-35-5) referred to as simply "Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin (HPBCD)", even though it seems it should technically be referred to as (2-Hydroxypropyl)-BCD.

I noticed your container says Hydroxypropyl-Beta-Cyclodextrin, but I don't recognize the CAS #. It says "CODE #410-903"?

Did you specifically seek out the more difficult-to-find Hydroxypropyl-BCD (CAS #94035-02-6) rather than the more commonly available (2-Hydroxypropyl)-BCD (128446-35-5)?

3) Are you aware there are reports of HPBCD causing hearing loss? I'm trying to figure out whether the dosages and method of administration in these studies are relevant to our context.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...mc/articles/PMC5676048/

1. 60mg DMT will be just fine, a level 4 on a subjective scale of strength, you could go with 60mg on your 1st dose and 50mg for next two re-doses every 2 hours if you wish to keep it moderate, and not too strong. 60mg DMT is around the level of alkaloids in 30g of potent Hawaiian psychotria, strong, but not overwhelming at all. 35g Hawaiian psychotria is where it starts to get very strong, like sit in one spot for 1.5 hour strong, where you don't want to move around much.

2. (2-Hydroxypropyl)-Beta-Cyclodextrin is the same thing as Hydroxy propyl beta cycloextrin. You will get the same exact effects using the 2-hydroxy. That is all that is available anyways.

3. Cyclodextrin has been linked to some studies in mice at very high doses of 8000 mg/kg s.c. We are not using doses anywhere near that here. I have used HPBCD complexed to pro-hormones for years when pro-hormones were legal and never had any side effects at low level like we are using. Patrick Arnold is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM) and sold them for nearly 10 years thru his company ERGOPHARM, never any complaints of hearing loss. See part 5 of my paper on his story and bloodwork results.
 
shroombee
#49 Posted : 5/24/2021 6:17:39 AM

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Results of THH plus sublingual HPBCD+DMT trial: It works! Thumbs up

Late yesterday morning I took 200 mg THH freebase and followed it up 90 minutes later with 40 mg sublingual DMT complexed with HPBCD. Ava69's recommended beginner dosage is 250 mg THH and 60 mg DMT for a Shulgin level 4 experience. I don't have much experience with DMT and I wanted to ensure I stayed grounded, so I went with the 200 mg THH and 40 mg DMT.

I purchased my THH from an online vendor, Liftmode, and the included certificate of analysis says it is 99.9% pure. Given the purity that's another reason why I adjusted the THH down from the recommended 250 mg. BTW, the packaging is very professional. The THH costs $68 for 5 grams with free 2-day shipping in the US. Definitely worth it for me to purchase it rather than making my own.

I prepared a 7:1 ratio of HPBCD to DMT and slipped the dosage under my tongue. As ava69 noted, there is a moderate stinging sensation but not too uncomfortable. The most uncomfortable part of the experience is the unfamiliar drawn out stinging sensation and wondering whether I'm setting myself up for a chemical burn on my tongue or lips. No such need for worry though. After 15 minutes I spit out the saliva and then swished with some lemon juice in water. That's a mistake. Although that stopped the stinging sensation my teeth felt a little rough. I swished with some kefir to make my teeth feel normal again.

Now I felt a little "off" in a familiar psychedelic onset way. No nausea but faintly dizzy and I felt the need to put on some warmer clothes, which is normal for me when taking shrooms. Maybe a tryptamine thing. And shrooms sometimes activate heavier feelings or shadow thoughts. I noticed that part of my mind starting to speak up, encouraged by the DMT. But with the low dose, easy for me to halt and brush aside. Stop

I decided to lie in bed under a couple comforters to stay warm. I put on a sleep mask and some headphones. Cool First choosing some uplifting ecstatic dance music and then switching to Gregorian chant. I don't get much visuals from psychedelics these days, unless the dosage is ludicrous. I needed to keep my eyes closed and drop into a silent mind to bring on some visuals. Some rushes of color but nothing memorable or structured. No psychedelic vignettes either - no stories or insights that many of us seek through these medicines to bring back to our everyday lives.

This dosage of THH and DMT gave me a light Shulgin Level 2 trip - obviously active but I could decide whether to deepen the experience by lying down, closing my eyes, and listening to music. Or I could go about my day feeling slightly inebriated and consciously ignoring the occasional wayward voices or imagery being emitted from my mind.

The effects lasted around 90 minutes. Rather than redose to extend or boost the trip, I felt refreshed and inspired to go about my usual life.

I will next try increased dosage, as well as THH with shrooms or mescaline.


Some comments on technique:

1) Thoroughly mixing the DMT and HPBCD into a gel took 10 drops of very hot water with several minutes stirring and mashing. And it's a little fussy getting the sticky gel off the spoon and mixing tools. Maybe dissolving the DMT and HPBCD in ethyl alcohol, evaporating to leave an integrated powder, then adding the water would be easier? Or perhaps the powder could be placed under the tongue?

2) I split out 20 ml of saliva and a glob of gel after 15 minutes. I wonder whether I absorbed all of the DMT or a lot of it is still in the gel? Perhaps try smaller, more frequent doses to get to the desired trip level? The only disadvantage I see with this suggestion is the additional exposure to the stinging sensation.

3) I tossed and turned all night. Ava69 did mention some difficulties sleeping if he took the THH/DMT too late in the day. My sleep is sensitive to supplements and even though I took the THH around 11am, it may have still affected my sleep. Next time I'll dose earlier in the morning.

Edit: It's also possible the tossing and turning was due to having a little wine late at night, which I only have maybe once or twice per year.

4) To eliminate the stinging, would DMT in salt form work?
 
ava69
#50 Posted : 5/24/2021 10:09:01 AM

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Thanks for your report Shroombee.Smile

Just a few tips before I depart for the summer to the weight room and waterpark:

1. Take 250 to 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine around 45 minutes to 1 hour before, as the combo of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca. THH is not an maoi, it is an SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Mescaline, ibogaine, LSD, shrooms all inhibit serotonin as well, this serotonin blocking action results in expanded consciousness in combo with the DMT as borders and walls are broken down in the mind as a result. I would not omit the tetrahydroharmine as it is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca, very important. It would be like a waterpark without the women and bikini's. Big grin

I have seen the receptorome data for THH, it is very similar to mescaline, as THH not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline (A2A-A2C), these receptors are implicated in not only visionary but feelings associated with aesthetics and beauty.

Using this oral THH + sublingual DMT results in ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO feelings of queasiness as there is no oral harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines.

Just like Professor8 said back in 2010, she, the feminine "THH has the ability to raise your vibration or whole-body frequency (this is really felt strongly) in a most powerful way. She brings a diamond-like crystalline prismy texture & super clear watery dimension to Ayahuasca, like looking down through 10 meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. She brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order."

2. Sublingual DMT salts do not work, and the sting is terrible. Using this method, the sting is mild to a little moderate, the outer water soluble sugary tasting HPBCD helps with this as it traps the non-polar dmt freebase inside it's tornado cone, as it releases the freebase directly into the bloodstream from the sublingual mucosa, only this way do you get max effects, as the freebase travels from the bloodstream directly to the brain.

3. I found that using the bottom of my tongue to "lick any leftover liquid sticky complex" off the spoon will grab any rest of it once you have poured it off from spoon to under the tongue. I get it all this way. I simply press the spoon against the bottom tip of my tongue to grab any leftover from the spoon.

4. The liquid sticky like complex should have all dissolved, there is none leftover when I do this after 15 minutes, be sure to press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap the sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

5. Don't swish your mouth out with anything, just spit out any saliva into a cup from your mouth after 15 minutes, then just sit there as you experience the trip for the next 90 minutes, go brush your teeth if you want way later...it does not hurt the tongue, feels completely fine after it's dissolved. It's even good for dental health imho as it kills any bacteria. But your teeth should be just fine, as we are trapping it in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

6. 60mg is very powerful...I redosed every 2 hours, this was indeed a level 5 on the Shulgin scale for me combined with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before the whole journey, has a half-life of 10.5 hours, so 5 hours of strong activity combined with re-dosing 60mg sublingual DMT every 2 hours = incredibly bad ass, I had 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions as described above...most powerful CEV visionary experience of my life.

I love it even more than strong cactus tea cause it's dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now, and no different than strong cactus tea as open eyed beauty is profound, music sounds INCREDIBLE for 5 hours, and heavy CEV visions for hours on end.

7. This past Friday on 5/21/21, I again took 300mg THH one hour before then used 80mg sublingual DMT complexed this time to 560mg HPBCD, mashed with 11 boiling hot water drops for 2 minutes on a spoon, then held complex under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced open eye visuals this time...the walls filled with colored geometrics & open eyed beauty was again profound...this was my 2nd high dose trial, when I took this again sublingually, but used 80mg instead of 60mg. Again, I had high-powered CEV's as well. I have become adept at using this stuff sublingually now. I had none to re-dose as I ran out of DMT, but at least I got 90 minutes out of it: Music sounded out of this world good and it was a very strong journey. I am now taking a 2 week break before I take it again.

8. Try adding another 100mg of HPBCD to your complex, as the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin has a higher molecular weight (1500 g/mol) than my plain HPBCD (1300 g/mol), molecular weight of DMT = 188 g/mol...you want to use a 1:1 molar ratio.

This will help trap more of the DMT, and lower the mild sting threshold even more. Use a 1:8 mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD instead of 1:7 mg weight ratio in other words. This means using 60mg DMT to 480mg HPBCD with 10 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug all mashed together on a spoon for 2 minutes, then pour under tongue.

9. I also read in the book Return to the Brain of Eden by Tony Wright & Graham Gynn with forward by Dennis Mckenna, Ph.D. that LSD, Ayahuasca, shrooms, ibogaine, mescaline, and this includes the now researched tetrahydroharmine found in Caapi, all "light up the right hand side of the brain".

This is the side of the brain involved with creativity, spirituality, empathy, art & music appreciation, visualization, feelings of spiritual joy...and that earlier in human history we used our right brain a lot more than we do now.

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. I think these entheogens not only reduce the energy needed to transition between brain states but are also smart-nutrients or smart-drugs for the right side of the brain.

Pic 1: Music sounds out of this world incredible on oral THH + sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT

Pic 2: My grandmother was an oil painter, and taught me to use the "right side of my brain" by teaching me to paint when I was young. Here are two of the oil paintings she painted of the room-full of paintings she did.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
music.PNG (1,359kb) downloaded 253 time(s).
zz art 1.JPG (96kb) downloaded 239 time(s).
zz art 2.JPG (99kb) downloaded 238 time(s).
 
shroombee
#51 Posted : 5/24/2021 10:32:15 AM

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ava69 wrote:
1. I found that using the bottom of my tongue to "lick any leftover liquid sticky complex" off the spoon will grab any rest of it once you have poured it off from spoon to under the tongue. I get it all this way. I simply press the spoon against the bottom tip of my tongue to grab any leftover from the spoon.

I used this technique to get most of the complex off the spoon. Thought it was a little awkward and perhaps this part of the process could be improved.

Quote:
2. The liquid sticky like complex should have all dissolved, there is none leftover when I do this after 15 minutes, be sure to press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap the sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

Hmmmm... I definitely noticed a blob of gel in the saliva when I spit it out. I'll see if I can get all the gel to dissolve next time.

Quote:
3. Don't swish your mouth out with anything, just spit out any saliva into a cup from your mouth after 15 minutes, then just sit there as you experience the trip for the next 90 minutes, go brush your teeth if you want way later...it does not hurt the tongue, feels completely fine after it's dissolved. It's even good for dental health imho as it kills any bacteria. But your teeth should be just fine, as we are trapping it in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

My lips and tongue were still stinging after spitting out the saliva/gel. That might bother me on a more intense trip. Are you thinking there's some residual DMT that gets absorbed by now swishing after spitting?
 
ava69
#52 Posted : 5/24/2021 11:28:25 AM

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Shroombee said:
Quote:
Results of THH plus sublingual HPBCD+DMT trial: It works! Thumbs up

shroombee said:
Quote:
Are you thinking there's some residual DMT that gets absorbed by now swishing after spitting?
I don't swish at all, I just keep the complex trapped under tongue for 15 minutes by pressing down w/bottom of tongue the whole time, then spit out saliva only into a cup, don't swish mouth out with anything afterwards, any residual complex will continue to dissolve under tongue, so just leave it. But all of mine dissolves within 15 minutes. Yes, you may still feel a little mild sting, but this too goes away completely. Tongue 100% completely fine afterwards. Thanks again for your report and hope you continue to perfect your technique.
 
ava69
#53 Posted : 5/25/2021 6:27:56 PM

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Shroombee said:
Quote:
2) I split out 20 ml of saliva and a glob of gel after 15 minutes. I wonder whether I absorbed all of the DMT or a lot of it is still in the gel?
Thanks for your report Shroombee in post #49. Since you still had some liquid HPBCD complexed DMT gel left under your tongue, it sounds like from your near +2 Shulgin level report that maybe you got closer to 20mg of the 40mg you applied in the beginning. I find that after 15 minutes, all of the HPBCD DMT liquid I place under tongue is absorbed, but I press down with bottom of tongue to trap it in the sublingual mucosa the whole time.

Keep up the good work, and hope to hear more from you in the future. Try adding another 100mg of HPBCD to your complex, as the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin has a higher molecular weight than my plain HPBCD, this will help trap more of the DMT and lower the sting threshold even more. Use a 1:8 mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD instead of 1:7 mg weight ratio in other words.

This is the story of how this came about: the plants taught this to me. I did not discover it. I have taken Ayahuasca over 70 times and cactus tea x 200 times. Ayahuasca seems to want to propagate herself all over the globe by any means possible, and if that means using the latest pharmacology advancements such as HPBCD, then so be it. The planet is in crisis, and Ayahuasca wants to help reverse the insane rapid destruction.

Daniel Pinchbeck "How Soon is Now":
Quote:
The human race is careening toward extinction: rising acidity of the oceans threatens coral reefs, habitat destruction, non-native species (predatory fish, bullfrogs, fungus, pathogens), climate change (alters temperature and water levels), pollution and diseases (especially chytridiomycosis, caused from the chytrid fungus) all have been shown to contribute to worldwide amphibian declines.

We clear forest that are full of trees even though we continue to pump CO2 into the air even though we know it's heating up the ozone and melting ice caps; we clear forests that are full of trees that could potentially help clean that co2 out of the air, the Amazon rainforest is the lungs of the planet, but miles of it are slashed & burned every week so that cattle can graize there instead to make hamburgers, and massive soybean cultivation. We throw away plastic water bottles, and worst of all, we feed into the corporate systems that keep this destruction going.
I don't know about you, but I don't use soybeans for anything, don't eat hamburger or steaks, only fish, chicken & turkey daily, as a bodybuilder this keeps me lean daily.

On my 70th Ayahuasca journey using the very last of my stored away Hawaiian psychotria, she showed me a vision of my "lost 1kg container of HPBCD". I had put it away 12 years ago, as I bought it from a sports supplement supplier, once pro-hormones became illegal, I carelessly abandoned the container in a place I could care less about, see pic on post #1.

Ayahuasca has a long standing traditional reputation of helping people find lost personal items like rings, necklaces, etc. through visions. She once helped me find a set of important spoons that I had misplaced many years ago as well. She showed me they were buried in a drawer under forgotten clothes many years old. I once saw a vision of a beautiful woman in medieval times searching for a lost ring in her home, Ayahuasca showed me that it was at the very top of a cubbard in her kitchen.

All that time the HPBCD container was lost, she showed me that it was in my garage buried in a container along with plumbing parts. That night I dug it out of the container and put it in my closet for use the next day. She also showed me a vision of the mimosa tree, I put 2 and 2 together, and knew what she was telling me...to experiment with HPBCD complexed DMT, and so that is what I did. She already knew that I had experience making sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, as I had learned it from chemist Patrick Arnold.

I had run out of Hawaiian psychotria, and it had been extinct for the past 3 years, perhaps diverted to all the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I needed a high power alternative.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:
For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:
My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

A little bit about me...

Becoming a shaman is often just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Shamans are chosen by the Spirits at birth, but it is not until later in life (usually in their 20’s) that the shaman is struck down. The striking down of a shaman is to dismember them as a person and to have them reborn into something else.

I am not a shaman, but have been thru alot of the near-death experiences Shaman's have gone thru, lost both my twin girls at birth, so have no children, my beloved pet Shitzu died at only age 4 from continuous bladder stones for 6 months, we did everything together...he was unable to pee so many times, we had to rush him to vet, where he was put down. He visited both of us in a dream 2 days later to tell us he was doing great in Heaven with a big smile on his face.

Have nearly died several times, once was hit head on by a truck when driver ran a yield sign, barely survived with numerous injuries. The hospital caught all my fractured ribs but did not diagnose my collapsed lung, so when I got home, drifted into shock in the middle of the night, wife called an ambulance and was rushed to a better hospital where they immediately diagnosed the lung condition and treated me for it.

Once took alot of acacia bark with Ayahuasca instead of the normal Hawaiian psychotria I use, and went into a serious serotonin syndrome shock, for an hour and a half I sweated my ass off sitting in the bathtub, I told my wife goodbye while my dog watched in a sad state...by some miracle pulled out of it, believe it was the high levels of maoi's in the acacia that interacted with the rima's in the Ayahuasca, bad combination. My forehead was pouring sweat for 1.5 hours, was in severe shock and trembling, and knew I was gonna die.

Lost everything in a 100 year severe flood, my home and all my belongings, had just gotten married to my beautiful wife and all the newlywed gifts perished...right after that we moved to an apartment complex, and 5 months later all our belongings again perished as they burnt to the ground after a disgruntled teen threw a lit blunt into the apartment complex after his girlfriend dumped him.

Had it not been for the policeman banging on the door of the apartment, we would have surely burned in the flames, as we were on the 3rd floor & asleep as I worked 2nd shift at the time. We ran down the steps in only our bare feet and suffered smoke inhalation.

Have been thru some near-death experiences similar to a Shaman, who lives on the outskirts of society. Lifting weights, walking in nature with my dog, going to the waterpark with a season pass every summer, and reading Bible all keep my spirits up.

Some of you have contacted me via messenger to let me know that you would like to experience this for other reasons than the visions, to help with treating depression. I will tell you this, yes, Ayahuasca can help to cure not only anger issues, melancholy, drug abuse & addictions, but also depression. She is also able to grow brand new neurons in the brain every time a journey is taken, she has cured people of all sorts of afflictions and ailments, even severe depression. I feel an afterglow for a couple days after a journey, and this refreshed serotonin reset often lasts for a couple weeks.

Celebrities who have battled major depression: Dwayne Johnson "the Rock", Katy Perry, Jon Hamm, Lady Gaga, Michael Phelps, Kristen Bell, Bruce Springsteen, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Naomi Judd, Ryan Phillippe, J.K. Rowling, Sheryl Crow, Terry Bradshaw, Buzz Aldrin, Tipper Gore, Wayne Brady, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Brittany Murphy.

Pic: Ayahuasca, Queen of the forest
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ava69
#54 Posted : 5/30/2021 11:30:04 AM

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In the 7 times I have used this sublingually, only twice did I produce more than my normal low amount of less than 10 to 15ml saliva, but it still did not bother me, but I was happy to spit it out at 15 minutes. Smile I have noticed on subsequent re-doses during the night, that there is even less saliva and sting as the mouth/tongue gets used to it.

On wed night 5/26/2021, I had an experience that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and around 12 minutes in, the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. Smile

Don't forget if you don't like the sublingual method, you can always use this stuff orally, as it performs many factors better than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally, see my trip report on post #41. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. But I love the sublingual method personally.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."

I still can't get over the visuals on wed night: I saw entire waves of neon color that extended from bottom of floor to top of ceiling wash all the way from the right of the room to the left of the room, like a laser scanner, there were fine "ripples" in the waves...these waves were broadcast onto the walls, replacing the fine geometrics already seen on the walls...the neon colors were out of this world impossible: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

The euphoria and open-eyed beauty was over the top for a full 90 minutes. The music being played over the 3.5 foot high infinity speakers I've had for so many years sounded incredibly good, like being an alien experiencing sound & music for the very first time.

I had so much fun, I re-dosed again with a lower 60mg around every 2 hours. ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO queasiness feelings. AND IT STILL KEPT WORKING BAD ASS. I work some weekends, so that's why I took it Wed night, as I have random 2 days off in a row midweek some weeks. As a weightlifter, I'm used to experiencing "the burn" in the muscles when lifting, so to me the sting under the tongue is tolerable, does not bother me, for some others, they will want to experience this orally using harmine and thh taken at same time mixed with the HPBCD DMT (which turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water) all together in a 2oz hot water tea, just like I did in post #41.
 
dithyramb
#55 Posted : 5/30/2021 1:12:40 PM

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Thanks Ava for reporting on your discoveries!

I have not been able to read all your writings thoroughly so I apologize in advance if the answers to my questions are already written.

If I understand right, you say that THH is unique in many ways, the only harmala with "serotonin blocking" and tryptamine like effect? And you say it has a feminine energy?

What else do we know about THH? Is it true that it is the least stable of all the harmalas? For example could it be that fresh caapi has much higher THH content than dried, and that this is the reason for the much higher THH to harmine ratios in traditional ayahuasca brews compared to vine (I am assuming that all analysis on vine has been done on dried material, and never on fresh) (It seems the long acidic boil - without adding reducing metal - conversion theory has never been proven)?

You have reported that adding harmine to the HPBCD DMT complexation caused a hindrance to the effect. Have you ever tried adding THH to the complexation rather than taking it beforehand? Could it be that THH does not bring this hindrance?

Thanks again for the info and inspiration!




 
ava69
#56 Posted : 5/31/2021 2:59:59 PM

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dithyramb said:
Quote:
Thanks Ava for reporting on your discoveries!

I have not been able to read all your writings thoroughly so I apologize in advance if the answers to my questions are already written.

If I understand right, you say that THH is unique in many ways, the only harmala with "serotonin blocking" and tryptamine like effect? And you say it has a feminine energy?

What else do we know about THH? Is it true that it is the least stable of all the harmalas? For example could it be that fresh caapi has much higher THH content than dried, and that this is the reason for the much higher THH to harmine ratios in traditional ayahuasca brews compared to vine (I am assuming that all analysis on vine has been done on dried material, and never on fresh) (It seems the long acidic boil - without adding reducing metal - conversion theory has never been proven)?

You have reported that adding harmine to the HPBCD DMT complexation caused a hindrance to the effect. Have you ever tried adding THH to the complexation rather than taking it beforehand? Could it be that THH does not bring this hindrance?

Thanks again for the info and inspiration!
Dithyramb, I am glad you responded, I have followed you for many years, you are very smart and love your posts. Thanks for kind words.

1) Yes, you nailed it, she has very strong serotonin blocking action, which results not only in stimulation but powerful transcendence as the daily survival filters are lifted so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose, when combined with DMT, which does not block serotonin on it's own, you then get the "full monty" mind expansion powerful transcendence. See end of post #41 for journey reports of 300mg THH on it's own. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline as noted by not only myself, but another person here. I have seen the receptorome data for THH, which not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 of the adrenal receptors just like mescaline which are associated with powerful visionary activity, perception of beauty and aesthetics.

2) Yes, she is feminine, which is why I always associate feminine pictures and energy with my journey trip reports that involve her. Queen of the Forest is what I like to call her.

3) She seems to be very stable indefinitely. I've used THH that was many years old that I had lost, still worked exactly the same. Wikipedia to find out more about it (good page on it), or read attached paper two posts up attached. Even Shulgin remarks in the book TIHKAL that "studies on THH are absolutely imperative." He also remarked that it probably holds one of the keys to unlocking Ayahuasca, but we just didn't know it yet.

4) Please just take tetrahydroharmine orally between 150 to 300mg. She causes no dizziness at 250mg or below, and only a tiny bit at 300mg, but once you are used to her, no dizziness even at 300mg. ZERO nausea, ZERO queasiness, so just consume THH orally at a powerful amount found in normal Ayahuasca brew which if you read attached paper two posts up is at least 150mg.

Many take multiple cups of Ayahuasca, so the THH is additive in effect, with a half life of 10.5 hours, so you get 5 hours of super strong effects, once you reach 300mg, the powerful CEV visions are seen for hours on end, phenomenal, them combine with DMT and the visions multiply and become colored and even brighter, as THH visions alone are monochrome (one-color) usually in green or blue. The DMT adds color and brightness to the visions, and adds to them exponentially.

I plan on having another neon-colorful open eyed trip like post #57 next weekend, so I'm not only taking 250mg THH with me for oral use 45 minutes before, but I pre-made a HPBCD DMT tincture to take with me when I go to the beach for 4 days next week. I'm cheaply renting a house with pool a few blocks down from the beach as we pooled our funds together with another couple we know. The tincture will stay good in fridge for several days, but after several days it needs to be stored in a freezer so bacteria does not grow.

Each 0.5ml on the graduated pipette (10 drops) = 60mg HPBCD DMT (60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD in 10 drops near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug)

Note: add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. This means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.

I dunk the tincture bottle in a coffee mug of near boiling hot water to warm it up again before use after pulling from fridge or freezer. Each drop = 6mg DMT complexed to 42mg HPBCD.

HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used in earlier trip 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD in 10 to 12 drops for sublingual or oral use. 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml = 10 drops, therefore each drop of water can hold 50mg HPBCD at room temp, or twice that 100mg HPBCD in very hot water.


update: I found the pipette bottle to not be favorable to the storage of the product, (it's too sticky) therefore I am looking into soaking up the 10 drop 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD DMT from the spoon onto a "wafer" of some sort for placement under tongue when outside on the beach at the end of the rock pier gazing into the sea, etc. If anyone can think of something, please post your idea.

See post #53 on how this was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, Queen of the forest.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
zzz graduated pipette here.JPG (34kb) downloaded 120 time(s).
zzz HPBCD solubility.JPG (25kb) downloaded 114 time(s).
 
dithyramb
#57 Posted : 6/2/2021 4:07:10 PM

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Thank you very much Ava, I think I know you too and have been appreciating the info you have been sharing.

So much is waiting to be discovered, right around the corner, but still it's not easy.

Do you think natural saccharides in chacruna or caapi might be playing a similar role to HPBCD?

Here's a data point: my attempts for years at brewing rue and various light plants together never completely succeeded as did drinking them separately, or as did single alloyed medicine ayahuasca (with caapi). Caapi is sweet, rue is not...

So do you guys think that certain natural (poly)saccharides in certain additive plants in the brew could support alkaloid absorption? Do DMT and possibly other actives get complexated with polysaccharides by simply boiling all the plants (including plants with polysaccharides) together? Any clues?

Thank you 🍀
 
downwardsfromzero
#58 Posted : 6/3/2021 12:37:15 PM

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dithyramb wrote:
do you guys think that certain natural (poly)saccharides in certain additive plants in the brew could support alkaloid absorption?
Well, it is interesting to note that one of the ways of kicking an ayahuasca/anahuasca experience into action is by eating a piece of (polysaccharide-rich) bread. Maybe there's more to that than simply stimulating release of the stomach contents into the small intestine, maybe not. It is also unclear what role oils and fats may play in the process, that is to say better results have been reported when the bread was buttered or when a buttery croissant was used (presumably for the luxury experience Very happy )
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ava69
#59 Posted : 6/3/2021 3:17:44 PM

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Great question dithyramb, downwardsfromzero knows about the saccharides.

I found the pipette bottle to not be favorable to the storage of the product, (it's too sticky) therefore I am looking into soaking up the 10 drop 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD DMT from the spoon onto a "wafer" of some sort for placement under tongue when outside on the beach at the end of the rock pier gazing into the sea, etc. If anyone can think of something, please post your idea.

For now I will be using a 1/2 tablespoon to hold the product, same 1/2 tablespoon I will crush the DMT and HPBCD and 10 drops water into, then cover with foil cover, and travel with this. Then simply dip the bottom of my tongue into spoon, as it will all adhere to bottom of tongue as usual.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
0.5 tablespoon.PNG (494kb) downloaded 70 time(s).
 
dithyramb
#60 Posted : 6/3/2021 8:45:51 PM

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And what about mushrooms stored in honey..? Could it be that the honey allows for better delivery and thus stronger experiences of the mushrooms? My rue + mushroom honey experiences have always been amazingly strong...
 
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