DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 552 Joined: 08-May-2012 Last visit: 22-Mar-2022 Location: Dark Matter
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So the question is simple, Why fractals? Why are the visions and experiences given and received in fractal nature? I know no one really knows the answer to this scientifically, neurologically yet, but it is strange that psychedelics, particularly DMT, present the world, wherever that may be, as fractal. (this is different from the question, is it real? I do not want to wonder if it is real, just why is it fractal regardless of if it is real or not). What are your thoughts and ideas on this subject? ~Peace, Love, and Light Meditate before you venture, take it seriously, use it as medicinal—it is good psychotherapy if needed. Realize that you, the Earth, others, and the Universe are all one and the same process. Then take that knowledge back to become, as you already are, one with nature. Eternity in every moment. Divinity in every particle. All is one organism.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 247 Joined: 09-Feb-2014 Last visit: 08-May-2021
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DisEmboDied wrote:Why fractals? Because Math: http://www.math.utah.edu/~bresslof/publications/01-1.pdf Enjoy! Edited to add: Fractals are to be reasonably expected. In fact I would put forward that fractals would be expected and non-fractal visuals would be the unexpected. Fractals are literally everywhere in nature. From the super small all the way up to the super clusters and dark matter. Everywhere you look there they are hiding in plain sight right there in nature. The one that always gets me is the fractals within forests. Do you want to know how much carbon dioxide a forest is sequestering? Cut down one single tree. Then measure the ratio of the trunk to the the number of branches. And the size of the branches to it's branches. That's all fine and dandy, but what? The ratios of branch size and count on that tree predict the sizes of all the other tree trunks in that area. Arteries and veins in our body are fractal in nature. It only makes sense that 'under the hood' in our brain the neurons are laid out in a fractal way for pattern recognition and the like. Roses are red
Violets are blue
Take the third hit
Then youuu....
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 552 Joined: 08-May-2012 Last visit: 22-Mar-2022 Location: Dark Matter
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Holy shit! thanks, will get on reading it now. Any other suggestions?... Meditate before you venture, take it seriously, use it as medicinal—it is good psychotherapy if needed. Realize that you, the Earth, others, and the Universe are all one and the same process. Then take that knowledge back to become, as you already are, one with nature. Eternity in every moment. Divinity in every particle. All is one organism.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 617 Joined: 16-May-2015 Last visit: 13-Feb-2024
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OrionFyre wrote:
Fractals are literally everywhere in nature. From the super small all the way up to the super clusters and dark matter. Everywhere you look there they are hiding in plain sight right there in nature.
Yesss! I tend to believe this, fractals are everywhere, if you can't see it it doesn't mean it's not there, you just have to find the right "angle" to look. I'd argue that the basic nature of the universe or even of existence is fractal. You look at a tree and it appears random or chaotic then you take a bit of DMT and the tree takes a new perfect fractal form, maybe it's like how the mind completes an uncomplete picture. "Is this the end of our adventure? Nothing has an end. We came in search of the secret of immortality, to be like gods, and here we are... mortals, more human than ever. If we have not obtained immortality, at least we have obtained reality. We began in a fairytale and we came to life! But is this life reality? We are images, dreams, photographs. We must not stay here! Prisoners! We shall break the illusion. This is Maya. Goodbye to the holy mountain. Real life awaits us." ~ Alejandro Jodorowsky
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Neō KyK ĖntheŌnaut
Posts: 269 Joined: 07-Oct-2017 Last visit: 06-Dec-2023
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I would be more interested to what are the consequences on the awareness of ourselves and the world, when we are to be exposed to fractals in such a condensed and epiphanic way. Everyone who has taken psychedelics has had their views of trees changed, as Sakkadelic, it goes like "Oh, I can see the order in such things now". Even if it can get out of hand, isn't the movement of human consciousness that of ordering the world, making sense of it? It is true fractals are everywhere, everything is the same pattern repeating and declining over vast period of time. Becoming aware of the fractals give you the key to all secrets, and then there will be pattern recognition and some more. It's also the birthing point of spiritual feelings: everything is made of the same thing, all of creation is united by some weird principle, there is a "signature". (had to bring my own Stoned Ape theorem in the mix, sorry ^^) 安心精神芝簡単吸収前進'''.'''''...'''''''..'~>\\\*'*¤@¤-.*;,^/ò°ò\^,,;*.-¤@¤*'*///<~'..'''''''...'''''.''' */(°_-_-_-_-_-_-,-:_:°_°::.:..((<u><u><u><u><u><vvv><vvv><vv><vvv>((",°^°FFF[[[--°°°___<<<```///---_°°°<<`_`_`°o°o°O°O°.°-)-(-°..°o.)°..O))°°(O°;';;'';;;''<°<°<<°°°<°°°<<<°°__-_---___---_°_°°___°°--°°_---____/__//___//__///__/_///_/_///_//o°oo°°oo°°oo°oo°°°ooo°o°o°o°o°o°°o°o°o^°^°^^°^°^°^°,,-.'''..--''__--```((-°-),-.-,,((),)(),) .°o;;;^`^_<<<8>>>_^`^,,,O.°
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2147 Joined: 09-May-2009 Last visit: 24-Mar-2024 Location: the shire, England
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I think a big reason why fractal/geometric patterns are so commonly reported by psychedelic trippers (across time and across cultures and with different psychedelics) is that our brains or neurons have a fractal layout, and we are tuning into this, into our internal [fractal] brain/neuronal architecture when we are tripping the lights fantastic (our brains being constructed in this way in all of us, hence the universality of this experience). Given this, and how ubiquitous they are in the natural world, I think it would be strange if people didn't see fractals while tripping. FYI: https://www.psychologyto...-brains-fractal-thoughtsAlso this: Quote:Our brains are full of fractals! In fact, they couldn't function if not for fractal geometry. The human brain comprises approximately 100 billion neurons. Amazingly, there are about 100 trillion synapses, or connections, among these brain cells. That's an average of 1000 connections for a given cell, though some neurons may only make a single connection, while others may have hundreds of thousands of synapses with cells all over the brain. The axons reach out to make synaptic connections with the dendrites of other neurons. It is the fractal branching pattern of the neuron's axons and dendrites that allows them to communicate with so many other cells. If neurons were shaped like cubes and neatly packed into the brain, one neuron could only connect with at most 6 other cells. http://fractalfoundation.org/OFC/OFC-1-6.html
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1111 Joined: 18-Feb-2017 Last visit: 02-Apr-2024
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I've only had DMT in Ayahuasca-style brews, among other entheogens (mushrooms, HBWR, cacti...) and I can't definitively say I experience the visions or visuals as fractals.
Fractals can be pretty and awe-inspiring and have made it as a 'thing' into group consciousness. Without mathematical scrutiny it's easy to overuse the therm and perhaps extend it to any pretty and amazing kaleidoscopic-like patterns.
It could be that the visuals our brains create in the presence of these molecules either make us classify them as fractals because of the associations we have with pretty patterns, or actually *become* fractals because of those associations and expectations that they create.
Just a thought.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1892 Joined: 05-Oct-2010 Last visit: 04-Dec-2023
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Can't honestly say I've ever seen a fractal on any trip that I can remember, be it DMT or anything else, but I have seen things that seem to repeat into infinity, but I don't think they contain the whole and therefore don't count as a fractal. Perhaps Jagube has a point about creating a fractal after seeing something and having it multiply from a subconscious expectation. When it comes to DMT my expectations seem not to matter. When I first started smoalking I thought I was going to be influenced by reports of clowns or jesters or elves. Whilst there may have been some influence it feels more like hyperspace has tapped into the information in my brain and toyed with it on it's own terms. I don't think elves, jesters or fractals are an intrinsic part of the experience itself, but something based on the tripper. Some people hardly see entities. I've seen so many I've probably forgotten quite a few but can't recall one single fractal. But then again it's often difficult to remember some experiences in detail... Art Van D'lay wrote:Smoalk. It. And. See.
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☂
Posts: 5257 Joined: 29-Jul-2009 Last visit: 18-Apr-2024 Location: 🌊
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Why knot? Our brains/nature are full of them 
<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 682 Joined: 30-Dec-2012 Last visit: 27-Feb-2024 Location: The Twilight Zone
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universecannon wrote:Why knot? Our brains/nature are full of them But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances? "Consciousness grows in spirals." --George L. Jackson If you can just get your mind together, then come across to me. We'll hold hands and then we'll watch the sunrise from the bottom of the sea...
But first, are you experienced?
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Pay No Mind
Posts: 934 Joined: 28-Dec-2014 Last visit: 26-Jan-2021 Location: 40th Parallel
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Praxis. wrote:universecannon wrote:Why knot? Our brains/nature are full of them But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances? Very good question Praxis. That allows me to segue perfectly into this: The only phenomenon more ubiquitous in life/our multiverse than fractals is empty space, which comprises the vast majority of everything. So, I am just as curious, as Praxis is regarding what it is about psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to "see" the infinite fractals embedded in all nature, as to why psychedelics allow us to also "see" that nature is, in fact, mostly empty space.           Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1023 Joined: 19-Mar-2016 Last visit: 07-Apr-2024
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You know that what you see when you push (SOFTLY!) onto your eyes. That stuff is rather fractal too.
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❤️🔥
Posts: 3648 Joined: 11-Mar-2017 Last visit: 10-Feb-2024 Location: 🌎
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Ulim wrote:You know that what you see when you push (SOFTLY!) onto your eyes.
That stuff is rather fractal too. Yeah, from the paper that OrionFyre posted: Loveall attached the following image(s):  IMG_20180130_104537.jpg (89kb) downloaded 341 time(s).
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1023 Joined: 19-Mar-2016 Last visit: 07-Apr-2024
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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Orion wrote:Can't honestly say I've ever seen a fractal on any trip that I can remember, be it DMT or anything else, but I have seen things that seem to repeat into infinity, but I don't think they contain the whole and therefore don't count as a fractal.
Perhaps Jagube has a point about creating a fractal after seeing something and having it multiply from a subconscious expectation.
When it comes to DMT my expectations seem not to matter. When I first started smoalking I thought I was going to be influenced by reports of clowns or jesters or elves. Whilst there may have been some influence, it feels more like hyperspace has tapped into the information in my brain and toyed with it, on it's own terms. I don't think elves, jesters or fractals are an intrinsic part of the experience itself, but something based on the tripper. Some people hardly see entities, I've seen so many I've probably forgotten quite a few, but can't recall one single fractal. But then again, it's often difficult to remember some experiences in detail... Yeah, this has been my experience/s more or less. My experiences are fractal in certain aspects, but that's only a thin bit of the totality of the experience when I'm there, especially the deeper you go.. All the aspects of the experience - bodily sensations, the visuals and visions, all the insanely powerful emotional bits, realizations, the entities, every part of the experience - it's all tied in to such a crazy degree ime, and so rapid and everchanging, every part distinct and visually crisp, even with a bit of harmalas it stills got a good amount of speed on it. But really you can't pin it down.. 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 57 Joined: 12-Apr-2012 Last visit: 07-Dec-2023 Location: Emerald City
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Lose the Paradigm of linear perspective. the microcosmos mirrors the macrocosmos. "Realty is a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs." -Lily Tomlin
The cosmos is viewed as a spontaneous act of ongoing creation arising out of a womb-like emptiness with unlimited potential.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1116 Joined: 11-Sep-2011 Last visit: 09-Aug-2020
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Maybe the answer lies in the relationship between fractals and holograms. http://www.cosmometry.ne...phic-synergetic-universeInteresting stuff, my fellow Nexian Holograms... 
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1669 Joined: 10-Jul-2012 Last visit: 07-Sep-2019 Location: planet earth
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I think the brain sees imagery simmilar to a camera.the brain is firing very fast on the dmt comeup showing you these fractals....using dmt you get a inside veiw of whats going on in your inner mind... on dmt or lsd ect... imagry you can also get visual emotions like seeing sounds and hearing visions .. tasting colors ect...
Salvia in lower doses..also gives repeated images like the many frames on a movie reel...fractals also must be similar to inner mind visions ..their are the stored picture memory frames in your mind...
I think they are cool to experiance especialy when you get colorful 3 or 4 D windows like in DMT visions...
Fractals on comup are normal..
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1669 Joined: 10-Jul-2012 Last visit: 07-Sep-2019 Location: planet earth
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I think seeing fractals on dmt may be very similar to the imagry we see at night asleep when we are crossing over in REM sleep about to enter a dream...
In my attemps to lucid dream at night...Ive seen mind fractals.. and heard strange sounds like dogs barking in my room ..[when there are no dogs].. and other sounds high pitched vibrations .or roaring sounds ...or the cross chatter of hundreds of people...or the sound of my grade school teacher teaching class...just before i enter the dream state..
This stuff usually happens just before the dream starts...
So on dmt..its like fractals are just the beginning...just before the break through to a more compleate emersion into a really .. BEING THERE.. experiance compleate wilth aliens or or your long dead relative..
just a theory.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3090 Joined: 09-Jul-2016 Last visit: 03-Feb-2024
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Praxis. wrote:universecannon wrote:Why knot? Our brains/nature are full of them But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances? As bancopuma said, the brain has a bit of a fractal-like structure. It is not that far-fetched to think that random noise generated by the brain would in some way reflect this way the brain is structured. Maybe nature often tends toward fractal geometry, but there are also forces that normally would counteract this tendency. For instance, many material stuff doesn't have scale invariance. So scale becomes a factor in how objects are shaped, for instance, elephant have bigger legs in relation to their total size, than insects, wich has to do with the material preperties of the stuff animals are made of. For information, this probably is far less so. Though scale probably does affect the way we process information in some way.
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