I never thought it would be possible to have a trainwreck on ayahuasca because I figured it would leave you in an unconscious pile of drool before you get to that point.

Boy was I wrong...

This actually managed to happen yesterday. The brew was quite low on rue and high on mimosa so it actually made sense that it would be more visual and less impairing...

As I noticed the first effects I thought to myself that this brew is strong but I also thought it would stay at this level. As soon as I got up I was blinded by visuals, barely seeing my own hand in front of my eyes. At this point I was still in my apartment, and as I stumbled to get to my bed I got sucked up by a tunnel hitting the floor immediately. This produced quite a bit of noise, as I was randomly shaking my head and hitting the floor with my legs like a fucking lunatic.

Long story short, neighbors got involved and I completely forgot I was on drugs. To all the questions I could just reply with "I don't know" or "okay" even if that...

The voices of them saying to calm down, and sit that everything will be alright got in a very strange loop and that's where it got even more intense. I couldn't tell if the voices are real or just in my head I was blinded by visuals and I figured I must have passed out or something or I hit my head and I'm dying.

At this point there it was the "smoked DMT" breakthrough, where I'm traveling though cosmos unconscious of anything going on around me. At this point I was apparently being transferred by an ambulance to the hospital. Followed by the cops. I didn't see anything of that but that's what they told me happened.

As soon as I got my visual field back I was in a room fool of doctors and I thought that it was a dream because it was so unreal I just appeared there, not knowing how to realize after an half hour that I will not wake up. I am in a intensive care being strapped on both hands and toes with a tube coming out of my dick.

I still hoped it was just a dream since I have zero recall of me ever getting there, but no... I ask the nurse... This all happened? It wasn't a dream. I knew the answer right away, but it still hurt me to realize that so many people got involved and that it happened to me... again. (Had an experience like this with acid too).

They didn't find any drugs in my blood, and I didn't confess I took aya because most people here don't know what it even is and I wouldn't feel right that this stuff got regulated in my country because of me.

I had to wait few hours strapped for the doctors to come to have a talk with me before getting finally released. They recommended some further testing, and concluded that I might have had a seizure or some sort of bizarre moonwalking but until further tests they can't be sure. I was already 4 hours late to my work, but it didn't turn out to be a big deal since I told them I had a "seizure" and that I had to spend the night in the hospital, yet I still came to work.

Conclusion: Every psychedelic is dangerous at heroic doses, and you don't gain much out of it either. Keep the doses moderate, yet sufficient for best results. Otherwise they will kick your ass, and not on the way you would like them to do. This is a perfect example of "less is more", so think twice before you dose a huge amount of any psychedelic.

Glad you're okay.

It's definitely possible to have a 'trainwreck' on a stiff dosages, though there's measure's that have been outlined here many times over in order to prevent or drastically reduce the possibility of there being issues.

Every time i've had a dose that was either heavy [visually, somatically, or both] i've always made it a fact to stay put, don't get up, shut off all distractions, find a comfortable spot; and have a potential sitter [possibly in another room] if possible, nice tunes or no tunes, incense, maybe a hot shower before, etc.

'Every psychedelic is dangerous at heroic doses' is a bit of a generalization wouldn't you think? Me and many people here have had powerful, overly intense experiences, whether it's brewing, pharma, dmt fb, changa, mushrooms, whichever, and it never came to the point of having to be hospitalized or having authorities come. Like I mentioned - there's many tenets you can take to gretly reduce or prevent these complications.

Also, many here, me included have gained the most from the experiences that leave you in a state of utter existential/visual/somatic terror, where you think you've DONE IT THIS TIME. Of course im not saying that that's whats required to have the greatest benefit, because you can definitely have just as much benefit from lower dosages, but to say 'you don't gain much', that's a bit of a generalization and relative to the individual taking the psychedelic.

Be well,

Ayahuasca has destroyed me before. Completely shredded everything that was me. What was left was an awareness that I could only have found having gone through the hell that I did. At the time, it was hell, now, it seems like it had to happen that way. Something had to shake me to the core for me to really pay attention. I really did lose myself. Some part of me never returned after my hell journey on DMT. It was dying and being born. I am grateful for the torture I received as weird as that may sound. I am truly grateful for the new perspective it gave me. It was a gift!

Very good that you came trough and that you did not compromises the scene.

May I ask what dosage was involved please?
How that dose related to your previous doses?

Thank you.

It's definately best to stay away from these so-called 'heroic doses'. I do like to get somewhat close to the edge myself, but only with substances that i have a lot of experience with. And even then, i'm cautious when it comes to dosing.

I also had to learn the hard way. Had a few of these trainwreck experiences myself, though luckily not as bad as your experience, with total amnesia and hospital stuff.

I'm realy sorry to hear about this terrible nighmare experience of yours. Sounds pretty hellish.

Unfortunately I don't know what the dosage was. I originally obtained 100 grams of rue and 200 grams of mimosa. I threw it all in a pot and cooked a liter of the brew when I was halfway through my stash, because I noticed I was quite low on rue and I was worried I might run out of it before I ran out of mimosa if I continue to do my usual dose like always.

I drank over the coarse of two hours a total of 0,2 liters of the brew. A friend tried the same batch and less than 50ml was an intense experience for him.

Me being a dumb-ass I drank that much because I thought I just wasn't sensitive enough and that it won't work otherwise. Looking back, I should have rather gave it more waiting time in between.

I hope that this experience doesn't put you off from psychedelics permanently. Sometimes it can help to do psychedelics again, shortly after such an experience. But ofcourse you shouldn't do that if you're realy affraid of it, and you should obviously take a dose that you're realy shure of you're able to handle.

That could have helped for sure but it has no guarantee. The general idea is to know about dosage, because waiting is not a foul proof method. The body has a way of accumulating (and that could easily be some hours) and then suddenly release by surprise. This is not a rare exception actually. The safest is to get the dose right, and apply waiting as a second strategy on top of that.

Thank you for being openly, so people on the verge of making similar mistakes might back off with going lightly about it, or supposing too much.

Safe and good travels wished

It put me off a little for psychedelics in general, and it put me off from heroic doses permanently.

I'll explain... I had a similar experience dosing half a milligram of LSD and it went horribly and downhill just like this one with different circumstances. Since than I was desperate and feeling rather depressed and anxious about my life and not to mention ashamed.

I couldn't enjoy smoking weed after this event because the moment I felt slight effects I instantly got scared and it reminded me of that event so I quit that too. There were also times I had flashbacks after that sober in which it would randomly pop up in my head again and it would leave me horrified that this actually happened. When I dropped acid after that again, I was questioning my reality if I ever left the mental institution or is this life I am experiencing just an illusion.

After a long break I had positive experiences with acid once again, but I stayed at the moderate dosage range. Shortly after I wanted to further heal and invested in ayahuasca, and so I did until this event.

I think I will drink what's left of the brew in moderation and than return to my first love LSD, but I don't see having a psychedelic experience that often any time soon. The only reason why I did them as many as I did is because I don't use any other psychoactives. Not even the common caffeine and nicotine, let alone stuff like alcohol, cannabis and other drugs.

Doesn't Mimosa produce more unpleasant experiences, though? I've heard concerning stuff about Mimosa, in terms of nasty alkaloids and negative effects. If I'm incorrect, please enlighten me.

The Mimosa might explain why you had a trainwreck of an experience.

And, I'm not having a go at you, but you do know that Syrian Rue and Mimosa are not actual Ayahuasca, but an analogue that doesn't produce the same effects as classic Ayahuasca, right?

You might do better with Caapi and Chacruna. The effects have been more beneficial for me than Syrian Rue and Confusa ever did for me. The feeling of the experience had a completely different vibe to it.

Don't let this experience put you off, I hope.

Just to 'chime in', for a moment....

There is a reason why Ayahuasca brews are made with Vine, and especially Chakruna. Mimosa is something rarely reccomended unless it is used in very small amounts because it can lead to these kind of negative scenario's.

i predominantly use rue and mimosa and i have had mainly loveley experiences, this combo has given me multiple soulgasms that lasted multiple hours.
i dont see much difference in the experience between rue/mimosa and aya/chacruna beyond the normal variabilty of the experience

it was clearly the ridiculous dose that caused this reaction

What...! You mean... 200 mls?!

Don't just "throw it all" into a pot, that's very unwise, unless you're making a batch you want to refridgerate or freeze for an easy prep for your next few experiences.


Or rather, you should have started out at a low dose, and you should have measured your ingredients after studying the average dose.

Always start small, to figure out your limits, otherwise, you're just risking a bad experience!

"Normal variability"?

i find the experience of deep psychedelic adventure varies each time, "fathom hell or saw angelic" and all that

My Caapi experience are almost always deeply psychological, almost never visionary, even with strong doses of Confusa or Chacruna, and always seem to build on the last journey, like there's a pattern. Syrian Rue never gives me the same experience as Caapi, even with comparable doses.

Psychedelics are weird in how they affect people in radically different ways, even though the dosages might be the same.

"Every psychedelic is dangerous at heroic doses, and you don't gain much out of it either" This is an over generalization. I have gained a tremendous amount from my trainwreck ayahuasca experience but i do not ever recommend it outside the context of ceremony for this reason. I know you mean well but i hate that this fundamental misunderstanding gets turned into a blame game. You should not take large doses of psychedelics on your own just like you shouldn't self-prescribe large doses of pharmaceuticals to yourself. I know a lot of people think it's okay and if i remember you were saying the same a few months back. But the only thing that stood between me and the hospital or suicide when i took a massive dose of ayahuasca my first time was a man who had partaken literally 2000+ times for decades with very rigorous practices such as santo daime. Someone who was no stranger to the realms i was in who could handle me appropriately so that i may safely get the most out of my experience. I don't recommend you take heroic doses again by yourself, but you might have some blockage to work through that's worth exploring in the right context. Either lower doses, or safer setting. Sorting through my shit made the next ayahuasca ceremony infinitely easier to handle. Though of course i still had, and still do, a long way to go. But let this be a lesson to others. Even if you've taken 10 heroic doses alone and done well, it is no way a measure for how you're going to handle it when things go south. Until you've been there and confronted those fears head on you're just not experienced enough to safely handle this alone.

This is the first time I made a statement like that, and it can't be few months back because I'm a member here for a little over one month and I haven't made that much posts to not remember what I wrote (I know it says over 100 but that's false).

You're not the only one that has picked up that sentence so I'll explain why I wrote it... There's nothing wrong with high doses, even those that evoke ego death but it seems once you get pass that point more negative effects start to appear like amnesia, more significant body load, increased duration (this can be good or bad actually), etc.

This was not my first ego death experience, with high enough doses to evoke this one could experience that but with more clarity of thought where you're in a state of egolessness but you still experiencing it all and are aware something is going on for a lack of better explanation. This was a complete psychedelic black out. Hell yes I stand by with the claim "you don't gain much out of it either" because hours passed by till I barely got any sort of conscience back.

This is not to say a heavy psychedelic experience is in any shape or form a meaningless experience, but there sure seems to be a point where it turns for the worse. This trip for me was almost equally as meaningful as passing out on sedatives because that's what the black out part felt like.

Wow! Trainwrecks can happen with water>hyponatremia. The "poison's in the dose".

Zero judgement AU, however, the term reckless may apply.

Our(Nexians) drugs of choice can and do rip the very fabric of "reality" asunder. Two edged sword and all. Age has lent me a more circumspect perspective while not loosing respect for a more youthful exuberance.

Be safe and live to fight another day!

Peace

Okay i see what you're saying. A black out would probably be hard to gain from. I didn't pick that up on your original post as you were talking about breakthroughs and such. I did remember you saying not remembering the trip to the hospital but it seemed the problems started before. In any case i'm not here to tell you your experience so sorry if i offended, and i might have confused what i remembered in regards to your last post. I think it was the post on LSD being just as deep as ayahuasca. It kind of made me nervous to think of people doing what i do in a protected ceremony totally on their own with a drug as long lasting as LSD I just read another story like this on another site minus the blackout and having had my own trainwrecks i guess I just sort of felt the need to say something about people pushing the boundaries on their own without the proper guidance.

Glad you're safe anyways bud! Sorry if i came off wrong