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Harmala Alkaloids and THC? Options
 
Ulim
#21 Posted : 3/22/2016 11:50:35 PM

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JohnIce2 wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
JohnIce2 wrote:
Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!



How do you know your strain of cannabis is high in beta-Myrcene?

-eg


I have a vial of pure b-Myrcene and I know the smell quite well. The strain (whatever it was) I had smelled heavily of it compared to other buds I had had previously.

And Ulim, If for some reason you are still interested in nutmeg (the stuff is horrible for your body btw) try the therapeutic grade essential oil. DO NOT EAT IT, rather do it transdermally.

Also Nutmeg has Elemicin, Myristicin, Safrol and those are probably all spelled wrong. But from what I beleive, Elemicin causes a decent ammount of the hallucinagenic effect from the nutmeg and is only active in the body due to nutmeg containing natural enzyme inhibitors that allow the Elemicin, Myristicin, and Safrol to be used by the body. Thats just a simple explination but if you go the essential oil route, I would have Nutmeg oil and mabye mix some more Elemi oil with that to increase the visuals. Also be careful about your Myristicin intake... It can be toxic at some levels.

Please mind my spelling. haha

Im never ever gonna use nutmeg oil extracts. Waaay to much negative side effects.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#22 Posted : 3/24/2016 12:53:12 PM
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Ulim wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
[quote=JohnIce2]

When I was a youth I ran into some legal troubles (involving drugs) and had to spend 3 years behind bars, any way, I had a friend in the kitchen who had smuggled a plastic glove topped with powdered nutmeg back onto the dorm for me, a ate the whole thing...how much can a nitrile glove hold? 20 grams? More? Regardless it was disgusting, every ten minutes I would "burp" up nauseating gas bubbles that tasted like the strongest scent of nutmeg that you could imagine...after I swallowed all the nutmeg I ate 100mgs of seroquil and went to sleep.
...WAKE UP! 4:30 am, the hustle us off the dorm to central dining, I felt stoned! I had been without cannabis for over a year and the only drugs I had done were methylphenidate, adderal, seroquil, basically just the pharmaceutical garbage that people can "cheek" for you (which just means they hide them in their mouth from staff when the meds are given), any way I was incredibly happy, though I felt brain-dead, I could also feel my eyes "being bloodshot", I was definantly intoxicated, no visuals, lots of body discomfort, very marijuana like...

I never tried nutmeg again...


Eating nutmeg pure is disgusting as hell. When I took it i dumped it into some yoghurt but couldnt even finish it.
And I had this brain-dead feeling too when I tried nutmeg. I was just sitting there not reacting to my sourroundings. I really would like to know what compound causes this effect. Maybe an extraction could eliminate all the bad sideeffects like the dry mouth and body pain?


I'm guessing that Myristicin is the key component relating to nutmeg' s psychoactive properties...

Though all the compounds found in the spices in your cabinet at home are only a single amine grouping away from being active psychedelics...

Shulgin had a class of compounds he referred to as his "essential amphetamines", these compounds precursors are derived from your spice cabinet' s residents essential oils...

Every essential amphetamine has a corresponding essential oil that is only an amine group away from the amphetamine derived from it...meaning if you aminate these essential oil compounds you get an essential amphetamine....



Quote:
The same obtains with spices, and essential oils, and amphetamines. The spice cabinet is a rich source of chemical treasures, each source plant containing a host of com-pounds, some of which are true essential oils. And the next spice from the next plant has some of the same components and some new ones. Does one organize by plant (spice or herb) or by essential oil (amphetamine)? Let's do it by the ring substitution pattern of the amphetamine, and gather the spices and oils as a secondary collection.

(1) The 4-methoxy pattern. The pivotal essential oil is 4-allylanisole, or methyl chavicol, or estragole (called esdragol in the old literature). This allyl compound is found in turpentine, anise, fennel, bay, tarragon, and basil. Its smell is light, and reminiscent of fennel. The propenyl analogue is called anethole, or anise camphor, and it is found in both anise and camphor. It is a waxy solid, and has a very intense smell of anise or fennel. At low concentrations, it is sweet, as in magnolia blossoms, where it is also found. The drinks that turn cloudy with water dilution (Pernod-like liqueurs, and ouzo and roki), are heavy with it, since it was the natural flavoring in the original absinthe. That drink was very popular in the last century, as an intoxicant which produced an altered state of consciousness beyond that which could be ascribed to alcohol alone. It contained wormwood, which proved to be neurologically damaging. The flavorings, such as anethole, are still big things in synthetic liqueurs such as vermouth. Old anethole, when exposed to air and light, gets thick and sticky and yellowish, and becomes quite disagreeable to taste. Maybe it is polymerizing, or maybe oxidizing to stuff that dimerizes. Whatever. These changes are why old spices in the cabinet are best discarded. And adding ammonia to any of these natural product oils produces, in principle, 4-methoxyamphetamine, 4-MA.

(2) The 3,4-dimethoxy pattern. The main actor here is methyleugenol, or 4-allyl-1,2-dimethoxybenzene. This is located in almost every item in the spice cabinet. It is in citronella, bay (which is laurel, which is myrtle), pimiento, allspice, pepper, tree-tea oil, and on and on. It has a faint smell of cloves, and when dilute is immediately mistaken for carnations. The propenyl analogue is, not unreasonably, methylisoeugenol, a bit more scarce, and seems to always be that little minor peak in any essential oil analysis. The compounds missing that methyl group on the 4-oxygen are famous. The allyl material is eugenol, 4-allylguaiacol, and it is in cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, sassafras and myrrh. You taste it and it burns. You smell it and think immediately of cloves. And its property as an anesthetic, in the form of a clove, is well known in the folk-treatment of toothaches. Actually, flowers of clove (the gillyflower, like the carnation) are the small, pointy things that decorate baked hams and, when stuck into apples, make pomander balls. This anesthetic property has recently led to a drug abuse fad, called clove cigarettes. Very strong, very flavorful, and very corrosive things from Southeast Asia. The eugenol that is present numbs the throat, and allows many strong cigarettes to be smoked without pain. The propenyl analogue is isoeugenol, with a smell that is subtle but very long lasting, used more in soaps and perfumes than in foods. The amine addition to the methyleugenol world produces 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, or 3,4-DMA. The isomer with the other methyl group missing is chavibetol (3-hydroxy-4-methoxyallylbenzene) and is found in the pepper leaf that is used with betel nut. A couple of positional rearrangement isomers of methyleugenol are known in the plant world. The 2,4-isomer is called osmorrhizole, and the conjugated form is isoosmorrhizole or nothosmyrnol; both are found in carrot-like vegetables. They, with ammonia, would give 2,4-DMA. And the 3,5-dimethoxyallylbenzene isomer from artemisia (a pungent herb commonly called mugwort) and from sage, would give rise to 3,5-DMA. This is an unexplored isomer which would be both an antidote for opium as well as a stimulant, if the classical reputation of mugwort is transferred to the amphetamine.

(3) The 3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. One of the most famous essential oils is safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene. This is the mainstay of sassafras oil, and it and its conjugated isomer isosafrole have a smell that is immediately familiar: root beer! These are among the most widely distributed essential oils, being present in most of the spices, including the heavies such as cinnamon and nutmeg. I am not aware of the 2,3-isomer ever having been found in nature. Adding ammonia to either would give MDA.

(4) The 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent compound is myristicin, 5-allyl-1-methoxy-2,3-methylenedioxybenzene, and the source of this is nutmeg (or the botanically parallel material, mace). The nutmeg is the seed of the tree Myristica fragrans and mace is the fibrous covering of the seed. The two spices are virtually identical as to their chemical composition. Myristicin and the conjugated isomer isomyristicin are also found in parsley oil, and in dill. This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. So here is the major justification for the equation between the essential oils and the Essential Amphetamines. Care must be taken to make an exact distinction between myristicin (this essential oil) and myristin (the fat) which is really trimyristin or glyceryl trimyristate from nutmeg and coconut. This is the fat from myristic acid, the C-14 fatty acid, and these two similar names are often interchanged even in the scientific literature.

(5) The 2-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. This is the second of the three natural methoxy methylenedioxy orientations. Croweacin is 2-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene, and it takes its name from the binomial for the plant Eriostemon crowei from the worlds of rue and the citrus plants. It corresponds to the essential amphetamine MMDA-3a. This oil is found in plants of the Family Rutaceae. My memories of this area of botany are of Ruta graveolens, the common rue, whose small leaves smelled to me, for all the world, like cat urine. This plant has always fascinated me because of a most remarkable recipe that I was given by a very, very conservative fellow-club member, one evening, after rehearsal. He told me of a formula that had provided him with the most complete relief from arthritic pain he had ever known. It was a native decoction he had learned of many years eariler, when he was traveling in Mexico. One took equal quantities of three plants, Ruta graveolens (or our common rue), Rosmarinus officinalis (better known as rosemary), and Cannabis sativa (which is recognized in many households simply as marijuana). Three plants all known in folklore, rue as a symbol for repentance, rosemary as a symbol of remembrance, and pot, well, I guess it is a symbol of a lot of things to a lot of people. Anyway, equal quantities of these three plants are allowed to soak in a large quantity of rubbing alcohol for a few weeks. Then the alcoholic extracts are clarified, and allowed to evaporate in the open air to a thick sludge. This then was rubbed on the skin, where the arthritis was troublesome, and always rubbed in the direction of the extremity. It was not into, but onto the body that it was applied. All this from a very conservative Republican friend!

The methoxy-methylenedioxy pattern is also found in nature with the 2,4,5-orientation pattern. The allyl-2,4,5-isomer is called asaricin. It, and its propenyl-isomer, carpacin, are from the Carpano tree which grows in the Solomon Islands. All these plants are used in folk medicine. These two systems, the 2,3,4- and the 2,4,5-orientations, potentially give rise, with ammonia, to MMDA-3a and MMDA-2.

(6) The 3,4,5-trimethoxy pattern. Elemicin is the well studied essential oil, 5-allyl-1,2,3-trimethoxybenzene, primarily from the oil of elemi. It is, like myristicin, a component of the Oil of Nutmeg, but it is also found in several of the Oils of Camphor, and in the resin of the Pili in the Philippines. This tree is the source of the Oil of Elemi. I had found a trace component in nutmeg many years ago that proved to be 5-methoxyeugenol, or elemicin without the 4-methyl group; it is also present in the magnolia plant. The aldehyde that corresponds to this is syringaldehyde, and its prefix has been spun into many natural products. Any natural product with a syring somewhere in it has a hydroxy between two methoxys. The amphetamine base from elemicin or isoelemicin would be TMA, the topic of this very recipe.

(7) The 2,4,5-trimethoxy pattern. There is an essential oil called asarone that is 2,4,5-trimethoxy-1-propenylbenzene. It is the trans- or alpha-isomer, and the cis-isomer is known as beta-asarone. It is the isomerization analogue of the much more rare 1-allyl-2,4,5-trimethoxybenzene, gamma-asarone, or euasarone, or sekishone. Asarone is the major component of Oil of Calamus obtained from the rhizomes of Acorus calamus, the common Sweet Flag that grows wild on the edges of swamps throughout North America, Europe, and Asia. It has been used as a flavoring of liqueurs and, as almost every other plant known to man, has been used as a medicine. In fact, in Manitoba this plant was called Rat-root by the Cree Indians in the Lake Winnipeg area known as New Iceland, and Indian-root by the Icelandic pioneers. It was used externally for the treatment of wounds, and internally for most illnesses. There apparently is no report of central effects. The corresponding propanone, acoramone (or 2,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetone), is also present in Oil of Calamus. The styrene that corresponds to asarone is found in a number of plants, and is surprisingly toxic to brine shrimp. The older literature describes an allyl-trimethoxy benzene called calamol, but it has never been pinned down as to structure. The isolation of gamma-asarone or euasarone from Oil of Xixin (from wild ginger) has given rise to a potential problem of nomenclature. One of the Genus names associated with wild ginger is Asiasarum which looks very much like the name asarone, which comes from the Genus Acorus. And a second Genus of medical plants also called wild ginger is simply called Asarum. There is an Asarum forbesi from central China, and it is known to give a pleasant smell to the body. And there is Asarum seiboldi which is largely from Korea and Manchuria. It has many medical uses, including the treatment of deafness, epilepsy, and rheumatism. The amphetamine that would arise from this natural treasure chest is TMA-2.

(Cool The 2,5-dimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent allyl benzene is apiole (with a final "e"Pleased or parsley camphor, and it is the major component of parsley seed oil. Its conjugated isomer is called isoapiole, and they are valuable as the chemical precurors to the amination product, DMMDA. Whereas both of these essential oils are white solids, there is a green oily liquid that had been broadly used years ago in medicine, called green, or liquid apiol (without the final "e"Pleased. It comes from the seeds of parsley by ether extraction, and when the chlorophyll has been removed, it is known as yellow apiol. With the fats removed by saponification and distillation, the old term for the medicine was apiolin. I would assume that any of these would give rise to white, crystalline apiole on careful distillation, but I have never tried to do it. The commercial Oil of Parsley is so readily available.

(9) The 2,3-dimethoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The second of the three tetraoxygenated essential oils is 1-allyl-2,3-dimethoxy-4,5-methylenedioxybenzene, commonly called dillapiole and it comes, not surprisingly, from the oils of any of the several dill plants around the world. It is a thick, almost colorless liquid, but its isomerization product, isodillapiole, is a white crystalline product which melts sharply. This, by the theoretical addition of ammonia, gives DMMDA-2.

(10) The tetramethoxy pattern. The third and last of the tetra-oxygenated essential oils, is 1-allyl-2,3,4,5-tetramethoxybenzene. This is present as a minor component in the oil of parsley, but it is much more easily obtained by synthesis. It, and its iso-compound, and the amination product, are discussed under the last of theTen Essential Amphetamines, TA.

One must remember that the term "essential" has nothing to do with the meaning of needed, or required. The word's origin is essence, something with an odor or smell. Thus, the essential oils are those oils that have a fragrance, and the Essential Amphetamines are those compounds that can, in principle, be made from them by the addition of ammonia in the body. -shulgin ; pihkal


Here are the some essentials relating to nutmeg:

Quote:
2) The 3,4-dimethoxy pattern. The main actor here is methyleugenol, or 4-allyl-1,2-dimethoxybenzene. This is located in almost every item in the spice cabinet. It is in citronella, bay (which is laurel, which is myrtle), pimiento, allspice, pepper, tree-tea oil, and on and on. It has a faint smell of cloves, and when dilute is immediately mistaken for carnations. The propenyl analogue is, not unreasonably, methylisoeugenol, a bit more scarce, and seems to always be that little minor peak in any essential oil analysis. The compounds missing that methyl group on the 4-oxygen are famous. The allyl material is eugenol, 4-allylguaiacol, and it is in cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, sassafras and myrrh. You taste it and it burns. You smell it and think immediately of cloves. And its property as an anesthetic, in the form of a clove, is well known in the folk-treatment of toothaches. Actually, flowers of clove (the gillyflower, like the carnation) are the small, pointy things that decorate baked hams and, when stuck into apples, make pomander balls. This anesthetic property has recently led to a drug abuse fad, called clove cigarettes. Very strong, very flavorful, and very corrosive things from Southeast Asia. The eugenol that is present numbs the throat, and allows many strong cigarettes to be smoked without pain. The propenyl analogue is isoeugenol, with a smell that is subtle but very long lasting, used more in soaps and perfumes than in foods. The amine addition to the methyleugenol world produces 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, or 3,4-DMA. The isomer with the other methyl group missing is chavibetol (3-hydroxy-4-methoxyallylbenzene) and is found in the pepper leaf that is used with betel nut. A couple of positional rearrangement isomers of methyleugenol are known in the plant world. The 2,4-isomer is called osmorrhizole, and the conjugated form is isoosmorrhizole or nothosmyrnol; both are found in carrot-like vegetables. They, with ammonia, would give 2,4-DMA. And the 3,5-dimethoxyallylbenzene isomer from artemisia (a pungent herb commonly called mugwort) and from sage, would give rise to 3,5-DMA. This is an unexplored isomer which would be both an antidote for opium as well as a stimulant, if the classical reputation of mugwort is transferred to the amphetamine.

(3) The 3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. One of the most famous essential oils is safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene. This is the mainstay of sassafras oil, and it and its conjugated isomer isosafrole have a smell that is immediately familiar: root beer! These are among the most widely distributed essential oils, being present in most of the spices, including the heavies such as cinnamon and nutmeg. I am not aware of the 2,3-isomer ever having been found in nature. Adding ammonia to either would give MDA.

(4) The 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent compound is myristicin, 5-allyl-1-methoxy-2,3-methylenedioxybenzene, and the source of this is nutmeg (or the botanically parallel material, mace). The nutmeg is the seed of the tree Myristica fragrans and mace is the fibrous covering of the seed. The two spices are virtually identical as to their chemical composition. Myristicin and the conjugated isomer isomyristicin are also found in parsley oil, and in dill. This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. So here is the major justification for the equation between the essential oils and the Essential Amphetamines. Care must be taken to make an exact distinction between myristicin (this essential oil) and myristin (the fat) which is really trimyristin or glyceryl trimyristate from nutmeg and coconut. This is the fat from myristic acid, the C-14 fatty acid, and these two similar names are often interchanged even in the scientific literature. -shulgin ;PIHKAL


-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#23 Posted : 3/24/2016 1:11:41 PM
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JohnIce2 wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
JohnIce2 wrote:
Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!



How do you know your strain of cannabis is high in beta-Myrcene?

-eg


I have a vial of pure b-Myrcene and I know the smell quite well. The strain (whatever it was) I had smelled heavily of it compared to other buds I had had previously.

And Ulim, If for some reason you are still interested in nutmeg (the stuff is horrible for your body btw) try the therapeutic grade essential oil. DO NOT EAT IT, rather do it transdermally.

Also Nutmeg has Elemicin, Myristicin, Safrol and those are probably all spelled wrong. But from what I beleive, Elemicin causes a decent ammount of the hallucinagenic effect from the nutmeg and is only active in the body due to nutmeg containing natural enzyme inhibitors that allow the Elemicin, Myristicin, and Safrol to be used by the body. Thats just a simple explination but if you go the essential oil route, I would have Nutmeg oil and mabye mix some more Elemi oil with that to increase the visuals. Also be careful about your Myristicin intake... It can be toxic at some levels.

Please mind my spelling. haha


Oh, where I live we have places like "full spectrum labs" that do cannabis analysis, I was kind of hoping these places had expanded into testing for more than usual compounds (THC,CBN,CBD,etc...)

Nutmeg is fascinating chemically, safrole/isosafrole is a precursor to MDA/MDMA synthesis and can be found in nutmeg...

I'm sure safrole, Myristicin, Elemicin, etc...all play a role in nutmeg psychoactive effects...

Elemicin is a fascinating compound, it's nearly mescaline, and mescaline can be synthesized from it...

Though I covered all the essential oil / essential amphetamine/phenethylamine relations in my last post...

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#24 Posted : 3/25/2016 4:18:44 PM
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Wait one second...

Quote:
This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. -shulgin; TIHKAL


This was quoted from this previously posted section from TIHKAL:

Quote:
(4) The 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent compound is myristicin, 5-allyl-1-methoxy-2,3-methylenedioxybenzene, and the source of this is nutmeg (or the botanically parallel material, mace). The nutmeg is the seed of the tree Myristica fragrans and mace is the fibrous covering of the seed. The two spices are virtually identical as to their chemical composition. Myristicin and the conjugated isomer isomyristicin are also found in parsley oil, and in dill. This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. So here is the major justification for the equation between the essential oils and the Essential Amphetamines. Care must be taken to make an exact distinction between myristicin (this essential oil) and myristin (the fat) which is really trimyristin or glyceryl trimyristate from nutmeg and coconut. This is the fat from myristic acid, the C-14 fatty acid, and these two similar names are often interchanged even in the scientific literature. -shulgin ;PIHKAL


Ok, so does this
Quote:
This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. -shulgin; TIHKAL
mean that myristicin can potentially be aminated by the liver in vivo?
I remember shulgin mentioning biosynthesis using the human body, where you consume "chemical-a", which is then subject to your internal systems, and becomes "chemical-b", you then extract "chemical-b" from your urine, essentially using your body as the laboratory for synthesis of a specific compound...
I remember shulgin saying, imagine if "chemical-a" was legal and easily available, and "chemical-b" was scheduled or an active drug, and you just happen to know that enzymes in your body are capable of creating "chemical-b" from "chemical-a"...
...Though for whatever reason I didn't remember myristicin ever being mentioned...
I've been researching tryptamine compounds and have had TIHKAL at my side daily, though it's been months since I've really reviewed PIHKAL...
Was shulgin suggesting that potentially you could consume myristicin and extract MMDA from your urine? He suggested it was possible, and said using a "liver preparation" they were able to convert myristicin to MMDA in the lab (in vitro), using this liver preparation suggests they were examining metabolism of myristicin in the human liver...
...but is MMDA really a metabolite of myristicin?
Can MMDA be produced from myristicin in vivo via the human liver?

Ok, I'll stop here, I should probably go review PIHKAL before I ramble on any further...

Thanks for brining up nutmeg though, it's seriously been nearing 5 months since I've done any research involving phenethylamines, and had nearly forgotten about shulgins "essential amphetamines" and the amazing treasure chest of precursors located in the average homes spice cabinet, there were a few months after I first bought PIHKAL where I was researching these compounds like crazy, but of coarse ended up getting involved in some other research project and had not thought about them for quite some time...
Thanks for the reminder, I may start doing some mild recreational phenethylamine/alpha-methyl-phenethylamine* research.

*when speaking about psychedelic amphetamines I prefer the "alpha-methyl-phenethylamine" nomenclature, as the term "amphetamine" has many negative connotations associated with it, most resulting from the stimulant amphetamine compounds of abuse. Now, clearly the psychedelic amphetamines, Pharmacologically, and otherwise, are world's appart from the stimulant amphetamine compounds of abuse, hence, the "alpha-methyl-phenethylamine" nomenclature.

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#25 Posted : 3/26/2016 11:37:06 AM
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On the topic of cannabis:


Quote:
Cannabis is also unique in that it contains a psychoactive substance, THC, which contains no nitrogen and is not an indole, tryptamine, phenethylamine, anticholinergic (deliriant), or a dissociative drug. -wikipedia


True psychedelics are either tryptamines, phenethylamines, or lysergamides, they all contain carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, they are all alkaloids and amines...

Now, the cannabinoids are terpenoid hydrocarbons, no nitrogen, they are not amines, they are not alkaloids,and they can not be reacted with acids to form salts. -eg



Though the final product still isn't a salt in the sense that I was thinking of...

When you have a freebase you can react it with an acid to form a salt of the compound, so if you use hydrochloric acid you obtain the hydrochloride salt of the compound, if you use acetic acid you get the acetate, and so on... my understanding is this was not possible with THC...(explained below)


Again, I only have a very minor interest in cannabinoids or terpenoid hydrocarbons (except the salvinorin compounds), but for the sake of a more well rounded understanding I'll look into them briefly...

I'll look at a technical work up claiming to convert THC from a freebase to a salt using acid, and I'll just get a work up on isomerization...which involves converting other cannabinoids to delta-9-THC...


Quote:
Freebase or free base refers to the pure basic form of an amine, as opposed to its salt form. The amine is usually an alkaloid natural product. Free base is commonly used in organic chemistry and pharmaceuticals to describe the deprotonated amine form of a compound. -Wikipedia


You obtain the salt form by reacting the pure basic form of an amine, the freebase, with an acid.

You can't obtain THC freebase as its not an amine.

So how the hell are these people claiming to convert "freebase" THC into a salt with an acid?



-eg
 
JohnIce2
#26 Posted : 3/28/2016 3:54:16 AM

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Hey! Ive just been catching up on the posts and Awesome info entheogenic-gnosis. What they may be referring to as "THC Freebase" could be Wax (Dabs, Shatter, Crumble, etc.).
All posts are imaginary and are just examples for me to learn simple to advanced organic chemistry processes.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#27 Posted : 3/28/2016 1:51:36 PM
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Sorry for the long posts...

I've been told I illuminate one in depth topic after another then quickly move on, and that it's ineffective when dealing with social interactions...

So again I apologize...

I doubt they are calling wax or shatter (propane or butane extract) "freebase THC" as its nit even pure THC. Most extract is only around 20-30% THC, These terpenoid compounds can be very very difficult to seperate...keep in mind that THC and CBD and CBN are tasteless and odorless, and the other compounds in the extract can contribute to taste, smell, and the intoxication itself.

Quote:

The following compounds were found in naphtha extracts of Bedrocan Dutch medical cannabis:[5]

Cannabinoids: THC (~ 30%)and THCA (~ 60%).

Monoterpenes (~ 5%): β-pinene, myrcene, β-phellandrene, cis-ocimene, terpinolene, and terpineol.

Sesquiterpenes (~ 5%): β-caryophyllene, humulene, δ-guaiene, γ-cadinene, eudesma-3,7(11)-diene, and elemene
-Wikipedia


Now this was from a naptha extract, but similar profiles would appear in other extract processes final products, some compounds are left out, but you get the picture...

So referring to extract as freebase seems ridiculous to me.

Freebase has a very specific meaning in chemistry, and it would be bad practice and contribute to confusion to use it out of context.

I'm not sure what these people are referring to...

The THC-O-acetate is not a salt, it's not water soluble, it behaves like a lipid, it's the acetate ester of THC...

Everything else is just isomerization workups...

I stand by my previous statement:

Quote:

Quote:
Freebase or free base refers to the pure basic form of an amine, as opposed to its salt form. The amine is usually an alkaloid natural product. Free base is commonly used in organic chemistry and pharmaceuticals to describe the deprotonated amine form of a compound. -Wikipedia


You obtain the salt form by reacting the pure basic form of an amine, the freebase, with an acid.

You can't obtain THC freebase as its not an amine.

So you can not react THC freebase with an acid to form a salt...



As far as I can tell most these people saying these things are making errors in understandings or nomenclature, though if I'm wrong please correct me.

-eg
 
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