We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
PREV1234NEXT»
Trichocereus ID Options
 
kemist
#21 Posted : 10/7/2009 11:13:48 AM

John


Posts: 700
Joined: 31-Aug-2008
Last visit: 27-Jan-2024
Location: Highland
soulfood wrote:
Wow Kemist!!!

Are you green housing that thing? It's really nice Smile

thanx soulfood, No green housing at all mate...

Parrot brought it this spring and it was 6 inches high..... now it`s 11 inches high

It`s growing fairly quickly, indoor , window open when hot, shut when getting too cold. Watered quiet often , every 3-4 days.No fertilizer used.
Latitude of growing location is +52 degrees.

'Coatl wrote:
Kemist that looks like a REAL Trichocereus pachanoi.

Phlux- wrote:

and kemist - does look like a torch eh.


I`m so confused.... I know you phlux already identified it as a Peruvianus..........I was interested more in Coatl`s opinion as she was disqualified(banned) first time he posted these pictures

OK SO WE DON`T KNOW, DO WE ? you both said it "look like" no it "surely is"

Clues from fellas from corborrea(some cati site) identified it as a peruvianus...BUT ... when chips from the same vendor were ingested the effects weren`t as blisfull and energetic as a mescaline should be, but more sleepy and dreamy like..Shocked
Corborea seems a bit weird to ILPT so judging purely by effects, he believe, he has a PEDRO

This fact actually upseting him as he send parrot to get bloody peruvianus. Awgrhhhhhhh :evil: :evil: :evil: Crying or very sad
As a kemist I never met ILPT in physical form and never talk to him. He share his wisdom, trough my mind, telepathicly only. Please don`t prosecute me, for his possible illegal activities. He is bonkers about chemistry and doesn`t even exist in this primitive reality !!!
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Infundibulum
#22 Posted : 10/7/2009 11:31:23 AM

Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos

ModeratorChemical expert

Posts: 4661
Joined: 02-Jun-2008
Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
kemist wrote:
I`m so confused.... I know you phlux already identified it as a Peruvianus..........I was interested more in Coatl`s opinion as she was disqualified(banned) first time he posted these pictures

OK SO WE DON`T KNOW, DO WE ? you both said it "look like" no it "surely is"

Exactly my point, that's why we need some hard data and good reasoning on this issue!

Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
kemist
#23 Posted : 10/7/2009 11:52:34 AM

John


Posts: 700
Joined: 31-Aug-2008
Last visit: 27-Jan-2024
Location: Highland
Infundibulum wrote:
kemist wrote:
I`m so confused.... I know you phlux already identified it as a Peruvianus..........I was interested more in Coatl`s opinion as she was disqualified(banned) first time he posted these pictures

OK SO WE DON`T KNOW, DO WE ? you both said it "look like" no it "surely is"

Exactly my point, that's why we need some hard data and good reasoning on this issue!

Definitelly

He doesn`t resemble that exact explanation from corrborea, he only remember it has something to do with that peruvian bird and shape of cacti spines or something
As a kemist I never met ILPT in physical form and never talk to him. He share his wisdom, trough my mind, telepathicly only. Please don`t prosecute me, for his possible illegal activities. He is bonkers about chemistry and doesn`t even exist in this primitive reality !!!
 
'Coatl
#24 Posted : 10/7/2009 4:25:21 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
I'd be glad to offer supporting evidence.

Give me a sec.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
'Coatl
#25 Posted : 10/7/2009 4:27:22 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
Your talking about the "Condor".
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
'Coatl
#26 Posted : 10/7/2009 4:51:47 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
See post #9

I assume Phlux would call the cacti in post #9 to be Trichocereus peruvianus, while Mr.Smith and myself would most likely consider those to be T. pachanoi.

Read post #9 in the link above for a better understand of the situation of Trichocereus species.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
antichode
#27 Posted : 10/7/2009 9:02:35 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 533
Joined: 07-May-2009
Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
SWIM thinks the results from extractions should be a reasonably clear indicator. As has been found by many on this site, Pach seems to have a lot of other alks in its profile where as Peruvianus consistantly show up with mostly mesc.

By no means conclusive, but if you are leaning one way or the other and need just one more indicator to tip the scales, SWIM thinks an extraction is a good idea
 
'Coatl
#28 Posted : 10/7/2009 10:38:05 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
Why would it chemical contents have anything to do with the botanical identification?

Do you think the people who first described these cacti went around extracting them?

Hell no.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
'Coatl
#29 Posted : 10/7/2009 10:51:16 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
Quote:
Pach seems to have a lot of other alks in its profile where as Peruvianus consistantly show up with mostly mesc.


Betcha $5 your all using the predominant cultivar "Pachanot" which DOES NOT REPRESENT what TRUE T. pachanoi is!!!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Frenzal
#30 Posted : 10/8/2009 3:27:42 AM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 30
Joined: 23-May-2009
Last visit: 26-Oct-2011
Location: Land of the long white cloud
Hey thanks for the help so far everyone and for whoever it is trying to keep up the content level of the thread.

The cactus in the photos i posted was identified to swim by the grower as san pedro/pachanoi, but he's not entirely sure as it doesn't entirely resemble other pedros he's seen in plant shops... then again who knows what they had labelled as pedro.

Swim is based in australasia, where alot of scopulicola come from (or so he's heard?), which is why he asks if it that's what it could be. Also he's got a general love of knowledge and plants and finds this type of thing interesting.

The cacti stands a good two metres high atleast, when in bloom it has a large and very beautiful white flower. It seems greener/yellower/bluer at different times, possibly in relation to the weather and temperature as it's kept outside year round.

He has extracted and bioassayed and it appears to be active but he can't say (or even hazard a geuss) if it's high in non-mescaline alkaloids or not as he hasn't ever cleaned the acetate or tried pure mescaline with which to compare.

Any other photos or info that could help? I'll be in contact with swim a bit in the next few weeks.
 
'Coatl
#31 Posted : 10/8/2009 5:05:26 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
Quote:
but he's not entirely sure as it doesn't entirely resemble other pedros he's seen in plant shops...


That is because it's not a predominant cultivar "Pachanot".
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
antichode
#32 Posted : 10/8/2009 9:19:28 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 533
Joined: 07-May-2009
Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
'Coatl wrote:
Why would it chemical contents have anything to do with the botanical identification?


I already said, because Pachanoi have about a 50/50 mix of mescaline and other alkaloids, Peruvianus have a more pure mescaline content. This is something members on this site have frequently verified, its not a coincidence. These are tried and tested results

'Coatl wrote:
Do you think the people who first described these cacti went around extracting them?


Laughing Perhaps they did, I dont know... which also means you dont know. We have the means now to do it easily, and there are enough people doing it to draw a scientific conclusion about a certain species having roughly x amount of alkaloids etc

'Coatl wrote:
Betcha $5 your all using the predominant cultivar "Pachanot" which DOES NOT REPRESENT what TRUE T. pachanoi is!!!


SWIM has both actually, he has about 7 different strains of Pachanoi/pachanot that he harvests from, they all throw up a 50/50 mix of alks, the only difference between the pachanot and the real McCoy is the yield. The real McCoy yields about %3.5 The pachanot's yield up to %1 But with every strain, the mix is 50/50

Compare this to well identified Peruvianus and everytime, the mix will be much heavier on the mescaline



 
'Coatl
#33 Posted : 10/8/2009 9:36:50 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
Quote:
Perhaps they did, I dont know... which also means you dont know.


Britton & Rose were some of the first people to describe Trichocereus cacti for Western science, not only did they never extract ANY cacti but they didn't even know that Trichocereus contained mescaline until sometime later.

Quote:
SWIM has both actually, he has about 7 different strains of Pachanoi/pachanot that he harvests from, they all throw up a 50/50 mix of alks, the only difference between the pachanot and the real McCoy is the yield. The real McCoy yields about %3.5 The pachanot's yield up to %1 But with every strain, the mix is 50/50

Compare this to well identified Peruvianus and everytime, the mix will be much heavier on the mescaline


Well that is very interesting.

Can you please post pictures of all the cacti your discussing?

This is great information!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Jorkest
#34 Posted : 10/8/2009 9:48:48 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf ProgrammingChemical expert | Skills: Extraction Troubleshooting, (S)elf Programming

Posts: 4342
Joined: 02-Oct-2008
Last visit: 19-Jan-2024
thats an interesting find antichode...makes sense too!
it's a sound
 
antichode
#35 Posted : 10/8/2009 10:03:48 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 533
Joined: 07-May-2009
Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
'Coatl wrote:
See post #9

I assume Phlux would call the cacti in post #9 to be Trichocereus peruvianus, while Mr.Smith and myself would most likely consider those to be T. pachanoi.

Read post #9 in the link above for a better understand of the situation of Trichocereus species.



You know Coatl, there is some very wise stuff said in that thread, a lot of which we should listen too...

I found these two comments particularly pertinent

'M S Smith wrote:
I think we should be looking at what defines particular sorts of plants and not what defines them in particulars


and this

'trucha wrote:
NO ONE I know who is a professional botanist can even define what is meant by a species when it comes to cacti. "Its entirely political" or "its just opinions" is almost the uniform reponse. Gordon Rowley's comment is "Its all in the head"



 
'Coatl
#36 Posted : 10/8/2009 10:32:38 PM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
That is right, it's all opinions as of now.

Did you see the comment Mr.Smith made about Trichocereus cacti being like dogs? If not, be sure to read that!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Phlux-
#37 Posted : 10/9/2009 6:41:51 AM

The Root

Chemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 2458
Joined: 02-Jul-2008
Last visit: 27-Sep-2023
Location: The asteroid belt
Kemist


check

Britton & Rose state that there is a “deep horizontal depression above the areole” of T. pachanoi. Backeberg (in the official English translation of the Cactus Lexicon by Lois Glass) it is stated that T. pachanoi has a “transverse depression over the areole.” Now this can easily be confused as indicative of the V-notch on many plants, particularly the “short spined T. peruvianus.” Interestingly enough the standard T. pachanoi in collection does have a depression above the areole, of which I usually describe as being a raised tubercle (a slightly protruding lump) below the areole. Many plants don't show this in cultivation to an extreme degree, but on very large plants which are capable of gaining their optimal diameter do have such “depressions.” These “transverse depressions” appear to be fully synonymous with Backeberg's use of “transverse furrows” for T. puquiensis. In the Cactus Lexicon, and lying between the listings for T. pachanoi and T. puquiensis is the listing for T. peruvianus. In this listing the terminology is different. Backeburg describes the presence of a “V-shaped notch over the areole.” There is no indication that the “transverse depression/furrow” is the same as the V-shaped notch. Now certainly we see very light V-notches on some T. pachanoi, but it is not a prevalent or apparently noteworthy feature of T. pachanoi, while it is on T. peruvianus. Interestingly enough I wouldn't consider a V-notch a prevalent feature of the “T.peruvianus KK242” which I have recently outlined as being T. cuzcoensis (Backberg doesn't list a depression or a V-notch on this species).

by M S Smith

from

http://www.thenook.org/f...ndex.php?showtopic=34667

antrocles wrote:
...purity of intent....purity of execution....purity of experience...

...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.


Quote:
‹Jorkest› the wall is impenetrable as far as i can tell


Quote:
‹xtechre› cheese is great


He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.

 
'Coatl
#38 Posted : 10/9/2009 7:19:18 AM

Teotzlcoatl


Posts: 2462
Joined: 08-Jul-2008
Last visit: 24-Jun-2011
Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
I won't be able to see any of the links you post that are from the nook because I'm banned there.

Sorry.
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
Aegle
#39 Posted : 10/9/2009 12:37:49 PM

Cloud Whisperer

Senior Member | Skills: South African botanicals, Mushroom cultivator, Changa enthusiast, Permaculture, Counselling, Photography, Writing

Posts: 1953
Joined: 05-Jan-2009
Last visit: 22-Jan-2020
Location: Amongst the clouds
This thread is getting very interesting indeed. :b


Much Peace and Sunshine
The Nexus Art Gallery | The Nexian | DMT Nexus Research | The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

The fate of our times is characterised by rationalisation and intellectualisation and, above all, by the disenchantment of the world.

Following a Path of Compassion and Heart
 
antichode
#40 Posted : 10/10/2009 9:52:34 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 533
Joined: 07-May-2009
Last visit: 04-Feb-2024
'Coatl wrote:

Can you please post pictures of all the cacti your discussing?


Swim will try once he gets a chance.

Worth noting as well, is that the 'other alkaloids' could be a mix of anything really, they are definitely active but who knows what could have come over from the limonene and added to the pile of goo he has, he has no way of testing exactly whats in there, whatever it is its soluble in acetone, whereas Mescaline isn't. So obviously SWIMs 50/50 Pachanoi profile could be slightly off.

SWIMs extractions of Pachanoi are limited to Limonene, so he doesnt have a large basis for comparison
 
PREV1234NEXT»
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.066 seconds.