Are you sure he didn't say sodium BI-carbonate?

Sodium carbonate is the best for basing bufo for extractions and calcium hydroxide is used for traditional snuffs.

soulfood - no, but maybe that's what he meant. To be honest, the extractions seem pretty complicated and error-prone from what I have read. How would this theoretically work to produce a decent end result?
1. seeds in over at 150f
2. grind up, mix with 1/3 sodium carbonate
3. 45 min in over at 300f

I am surprised really how many people aren't connecting with the seeds..though I seem to be very sensitive these days to most entheogens..especially ayahuasca and mushrooms..so maybe that's why I got such good effects..I have still yet to try my extracted bufo..and I feel like I dont really need to, other than to give my lungs a break..

Maybe I just have a good batch of seeds..I am hoping that's not it..I have another 300 seeds here from maya so hope they are as good..

The extractions a bitch... I think anyone who says they've isolated bufotenine is a big hairy liar. It's probably not even psychoactive, but just a big hoax created by some sick individuals to make people throw up a lot and waste their money... I'm going to keep trying all the same


Crisp, that would work well enough. I always go wrong somewhere along the way though and have never had that much luck making a snuff. The internet can only take you so far without leaving a lot to trial and error. You want really potent seeds though... believe me. How much raw plant matter can you fit in your nose?

I may try do what you have outlined and then just rinse it with acetone because I hate snorting plant matter. Then maybe just mix in some calcium carbonate to the sticky mess to make it more managable.

It's a fools game I say!

Yeah I'm not bitter about this whole bufotenine business at all

^^yeah ron's SWIM is the only one who I have actaully seen with pics of white crystals..

I couldnt get anything other than brown stuff myself..the seeds(at least some of them) are active though..
Bufo seems so strange, maybe it does effect certain people in completely different ways than other people..it's a big mystery.

I might test my seed powder again either tonight or tommorow so I will report back when I do.

Yeah I got a little bit of OEV's off of an extract I did, but I think it was highly oxidized. I can never get a pure enough hit in before it starts becoming physically exhausting. A custom vapouriser is definately needed. damn that brown muck! Going to try this again soon I hope.

Yeah I know the feeling..I probabily tried 8 or so times over the last 5 years..and every time it felt like my head was going to explode and someone had stabbed me in the stomache!..but I had not done the toasting..

When i smoked this batch, I was very weary..I was expecting that horrible discusting body load..but it wasnt there at all..and there was barely any effect..so I thought it wasnt working and just kept smoking and adding cappi, and thne gave up..but 5-10 minutes later BAM!..it just hit. SLight neck tension at the most but not uncomfortable.. I think I toasted them for like 30-40 minutes..not sure hwo long others are doing it for..I wanted to make damn sure I got all that crap out.

has anyone else had this black sticky extract that seems to melt slowly? that's after a limo boil? what is that stuff... it doesn't melt at 300f.

The truth is...

NO ONE KNOWS!!! DUH DA DUUUUH!!

Inteligence can only state that these are "toxins" "impurities". Some bold folk have also started that it could actually be bufotenine N-Oxide.
I for one won't be using limonene on bufotenine ever again.

soulfood - I was actually thinking of those three steps for smoking rather the insufflating. I guess there's so many variables it's hard to say what 'works' and what doesn't. If it can be freebased and the 'toxins' removed through heating, there shouldn't be much need for extraction I would think... Unless the seed quality is dud (which apparently it may be).

I had no luck with that method.

If you think about it, people arent having much luck smoking the extracted alkaloids because even those are too harsh. I got a little bit of that bufo taste from smoking based seeds but any effects were barely noticable.

But it wouldn't hurt just to base a few g's of seeds. Give it a go.

Getting good seeds is the challenge.

Ok, so I tried out smoking this snuff mix again..but I purposly left out the caapi..

This time there was *very* mild nausea, not sure why..but it only lasted like 30 seconds and wasn't really unpleasant at all..nothing I would go out of my way to avoid..

Again I onl felt minor effects until 10 minutes in..at about 15 minutes in light fliaments of neon colour, like veins were trying to manififest, but would quickly dissapear and then reapear when I changed my visual focal point..

It's 20 minutes in now and most of what i am feeling in a real nice euphoria, and mentally i would say it's bordering on psychedelic..but i feel like I am craving more..I only took 3 small hits..I feel like it could take me deep if I just smoked and smoked hard..but I cant tell from the way I felt at about 1 minute in that it would need to be done over a period of 5 to 10 minutes..or maybe smoke more at the 10 minute mark..to avoid experienceing any real uncomfortable nausea..

Music is enhanced and the euphoria right now is really nice, very glowy..very psilocybin like but more controllable..things are slightly warping as well..

I think that the caapi definatily makes it better and more visual, at least at a low dose such as this..again I can tell I am on the verge of something deeper but just need to find it..maybe my spice trip yesterday gave me a bitof tolerance as well..

ok it's now like 25 minutes in and feeling more and more like a mild psilocynin trip visually..it's weird how it hits in stages like this..hmmm, definaitly more eperiments will be done..wish I had more time to smoke more right now but need to go..

edit..feels kinda like a mid dose of mescaline as well..real warm and cozy..

Ok so listen to this..

The natives apparently do one step that I have never heard of anyone here doing before..they ferment the seeds..even ott mentions this..though noone really knows what this would do, but many things undergo enzymatic processes when fermented..

Goes something like this..

THey first toast the seeds, and then grind themup, mix with pure water to form a paste(without any base), and cover it so it stays moist for a few days in order to ferment..then they dry it out, mix with base and make a paste again and then dry that and grind it up..interesting..has anyone else heard or tried this before??

Perhaps this step is the key to making a real breakthrough snuff..

Hmm... interesting. Where did you here this?

"TRADITIONAL PREPARATION: It varies somewhat from tribe to tribe. The pods, which are borne profusely on the yopo tree, are flat and deeply constricted between each seed. Gray-black when ripe, the seed pods break open, exposing from three to about ten flat seeds, or beans. These are gathered during January and February, usually in large quantities and often ceremonially. They are first slightly moistened and rolled into a paste, which is then roasted gently over a slow fire until it is dried out and toasted. Sometimes the beans are allowed to ferment before being rolled into a paste. After the toasting, the hardened paste may be stored for later use. Some Indians toast the beans and crush them without molding them into a paste, grinding them usually on an ornate slab of hardwood made especially for the purpose."

taken from here..
http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=26

and this..

"The first scientific report of Yopo was made by the explorer Baron von Humboldt, who botanically identified the source and reported that the Maypure Indians of the Orinoco, where he witnessed the preparation of the drug in 1801, broke the long pods, moistened them, and allowed them to ferment; when they turned black, the softened beans were kneaded into cakes with cassava flour and lime from snails. These cakes were powdered when the snuff was needed. Humboldt, quite erroneously, believed that "it is not to be believed that the... pods are the chief cause of the...effects of the snuff.... These effects are due to the freshly calcined lime."

taken from here..
http://www.thenook.org/archives/tek/yopo.htm

and this thread..
http://www.drugs-forum.c...e/index.php/t-18314.html

I do remember reading this somewhere referenced by ott but I cant find it yet..

Anyways, it seems that not all tribes do ferment the seeds..but still it could catalyze some sort of conversion..we'll never know until it's tried..I will try this once the snuff I prepared runs out..

I am first going to just predose some caapi, and then just smoke lots of the snuff and see how far it takes me, even if I do puke..I actually quite enjoy the effects I am getting that start at around the 15 minute mark, but want to really go deeper. I think if I doubled my dose I might get to where I want to be..

Interesting though how both 69ron's and jorkests SWIMS seem to have at least once created some sort of conversion to another alkaoloid that they both prefer over DMT...I remember jorkest called it "batch" or something like that..so who knows what fermenting will do..

Yes, that’s what I recommend. Remember that mixing with water and calcium hydroxide for too long (24 hours always does it) seems to decompose bufotenine into a non-smokable product. Mixing for just the right amount of time (2-6 hours or so) decomposes bufotenine into an unknown substance that is still smokable, very much like DMT, but much better, more euphoric and longer lasting. Mixing for just a few minutes just freebases bufotenine. But when sodium carbonate is used, all it can do is freebase it no matter how long you mix it. So it’s safer because it can’t decompose your bufotenine into a non-smokable product like calcium hydroxide can.



For sure SWIM meant sodium BIcarbonate and not sodium carbonate. Sodium bicarbonate is a very weak base and can only bring the pH up to about 8.2 or so. Sodium carbonate is a fairly strong base and can bring the pH up to about 11.4 just like ammonia can.



A limonene boil ruined SWIMs pretty white bufotenine crystals. After a limonene boil they all turned brown and tasted like oranges. Lots of impurities came out of the limonene I think and got stuck to the bufotenine, or possibly the bufotenine burnt a little bit.



This even happens with SWIM’s pure white bufotenine which is about 99% pure bufotenine. The effects come on in stages and are nothing like psilocybin at first but get more and more like psilocybin as the trip unfolds. I believe it’s reacting in the body to form another compound.



I’m curious about this too. I’ve read about various forms of fermentation being used by some tribes. There must be something to it or they wouldn’t waste their time doing it.


To all of the other SWIMs out there getting frustrated with bufotenine extraction: KEEP TRYING! SWIM did like 100 or so extractions before he ever was able to get pure white bufotenine crystals. The only way he ever got to that point was by doing a double A/B extraction using DCM, and then performing a xylene boil on the final product. No other method worked to give pure white crystals. SWIM even tried Jonathan Ott’s famous bufotenine extraction several times and it nearly always ended up with sticky results. SWIM has tried almost all of the techs out there and pretty much none of them end up with pure bufotenine.

Try doing a double A/B extraction using DCM, and don’t skimp on defats with DCM because they are absolutely critical. After the double A/B you end up with sticky amber crap which is very potent but nauseating (from bufotenine N-Oxide I believe). You then do a xylene boil to get rid of the amber crap. No one likes using DCM. It’s a nasty solvent. And everyone hates xylene. So far though, this is the only way SWIM was able to get pure crystals and it works every time. No one else is trying this and that’s why you are all failing.

I understand the frustration, but everyone I see is trying to get good results using techs that just don’t work well.

SWIM was able to get tan powdery crystals from ott method. unfortuntately it causes too many side effects.

SWIM wouldn't do ott method ever again though the whole ethanol and tartaric acid part seems like a waste of time. SWIM would recommend just doing acid extraction with water initially.

anyway what is this xylene boil? is it to purify the final tan product to get it cleaner?

If only I could get my hands on some DCM

How Ott got clean bufotenine using his tech is amazing. SWIM had a very hard time getting the bufotenine to crystallize using that tech. Maybe Ott’s seeds were far more pure. SWIM only was successful once, and all other times crystallization failed using that tech. Ott’s tech is actually not his own invention, its copied from someone else (I forget his name) with a few very minor modifications by Ott.

The xylene boil works very well on the results from Ott’s extraction. It’s a purification step only. The extract needs to be a very pure alkaloid extract to begin with or it doesn’t work well. Ott’s tech produces a very pure alkaloid extract, the problem seems to be that bufotenine N-oxide (SWIM is assuming this) is a sticky amber mess and contaminates most bufotenine extracts. This is why you usually get a tan or amber powder, and it’s often sticky, sometimes so sticky that its gooey.

Both bufotenine and bufotenine N-oxide are insoluble in xylene at room temperature. However, when xylene is boiled, it’s temperature is roughly the same as the boiling point of bufotenine. At that temperature bufotenine becomes soluble in xylene, but bufotenine N-oxide does NOT (again, SWIM is assuming the amber alkaloid is bufotenine N-Oxide).

This is how you do the xylene boil. You boil the purified mixed alkaloids in a beaker with xylene for 5 minutes. Two distinct layers form, a dark amber layer at the bottom, and a light yellow layer at the top. You then immediately decant the light yellow xylene into another beaker being careful not to decant any of the amber crap at the bottom. After 24 hours, many tiny white crystals form in the xylene. They look like snow or sand to the naked eye. The xylene can then be decanted off leaving bufotenine crystals stuck to the beaker. This step can then be repeated with the bufotenine to produce extremely pure crystals. Any 5-MeO-DMT or DMT present will be left behind in the decanted xylene.

This is a great trick because it allows easy separation of bufotenine N-oxide, bufotenine, and DMT (plus 5-MeO-DMT). Before boiling the xylene 5-MeO-DMT and DMT are extremely soluble in it. After boiling, bufotenine becomes soluble in it too, but bufotenine N-oxide does not (again this is assume it’s the amber alkaloid) and sinks to the bottom as amber crap. When the xylene is decanted, leaving behind the amber crap, the decanted boiling hot xylene contains a mix of DMT, DMT N-Oxide, and bufotenine. When it cools down overnight, the bufotenine precipitates out of the xylene while the DMT and 5-MeO-DMT stay in the xylene. It's perfect for this.

The only problem is that xylene is present in the bufotenine. You can then recrystallize the bufotenine in a small amount of acetone to get rid of the xylene. You cannot crystallize bufotenine in acetone unless its extremely pure, so don’t bother unless your bufotenine is nearly white. It will usually have a slight amber or tan tint to it unless recrystallized many times.

Yea SWIM tried a ton of variations on ethyl acetate crytallizations and was never able to get anything cleaner then a tan powder. SWIM thinks ott must have had pure or fresh seeds or something.

anyway SWIM will give this xylene boil a go and see if it works. SWIM will also save the product that dissolves in the xylene and try to analyze it if swim has some free time.