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wow oh wow bufotenine success!! Options
 
jamie
#221 Posted : 11/24/2009 1:10:03 AM

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Ok so I have been studying the traditional recipes alot today...and apparently the strongest yopo in the amazon is a mix of the seeds, caapi power and it is all based with ashes from the bark of tress..

So I cant find any calcium hydroxide..I tried to get pickling lime before and I just get strange looks..Eventaully I will get to china town and find some.

First I want to try it the way it is done traditionally. So I can either have a campfire and burn shells I guess or I can use plant ashes..so if I take a bunch of mugwort and burn it all down to ashes would that be sufficient?..I want to experience what the natives experience..so this seems the best way to do it..

I kinda think its cool anyway making my own natural source of calcium hydroxide..I know it's not pure calcium hydroxide but all I want to know is if this should be sufficient..like does is matter that the ashes I am using are from a different plant than the amazonians?
 

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69ron
#222 Posted : 11/24/2009 11:26:42 AM

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damiana wrote:
^Why not just use calcium hydroxide?

Quote:

I think calcium butotenate was proven to not exist..it only exists in solution..once out of solution it does not exist.

I dont believe it exists..the reports, including this one describe EXACTLY how it goes when I smoke freebase bufotenine.

This is what freebase bufotenine is like for me when I get a real good dose..


I read that thread and it would seem to point to the possiblity that the stage two compound is actually 5-O-DMT and not calcium bufotenate.

First lets look at the quote in hand.

Quote:
The 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine) react with the calcium hydroxide, to form a compound Ca + 5 O-DMT (calcium bufotenate), but splits in the acetone solution leaving 5-O-DMT in solution'
So basically calcium bufotenate only exists in solution' or as of when Bufotenine is in physical contact with calcium hydroxide' as a compound'

Calcium Bufotenine/nate is only existent within the reaction'

The end product is 5 O-DMT'~


69ron quote from dehydrobufotenine thread.
Quote:
His friend says that before being exposed to pH 12, freebase bufotenine is soluble in acetone, but after being exposed to pH 12 for 24 hours, the result is a compound that is no longer soluble in acetone, but very soluble in alcohol or water. It is also insoluble in non-polar solvents and can't be turned back into bufotenine by the addition of any acids. His friend is unable to verify that it is transformed into dehydrobufotenine, but believes this to be the case.


Maybe if the reaction between bufotenine and calcium hydroxide lasted only 6 hours or so the 5-O-DMT would be created and just stable enough to not further break down into dehydrobufotenine (which is inactive when smoked and is supposedly created when bufotenine is reacted with calcium hydroxide for 24 hours).

69ron from earlier in this thread.
Quote:
What he knows is that 24 hours is too long and converts the bufotenine into a non-vaporizable compound. 15 minutes is not enough and just freebases it. The time needed is somewhere between 2-6 hours, and seems to vary every time. The safest reaction time is 2 hours. That seems not to be enough time to get to the third reaction stage. And if it doesn’t work, and just freebases the bufotenine, and then you can do another 2 hours and it will usually work.


What do you think?


I wish someone would look into this reaction with calcium hydroxide.

I can tell you guys that there IS a stage 2 compound, and its effects are NOT those of bufotenine. Its structure is unknown. I think this is where the "calcium bufotenate" idea comes from. People have stumbled on this stage 2 compound accidentally, were amazed by it, and didn't know what to call it so the name "calcium bufotenate" was being used to describe it. There is a stage 3 compound and that is most likely dehydrobufotenine. The stage 2 compound that's created by reaction with calcium hydroxide will BLOW YOU AWAY. If you succeed at making that, your jaw will drop and you'll be thanking God above. It is the best psychedelic there is. SWIM has made it a few times. It's stable once it's made, but getting to stage 2 without going to stage 3 is hard. If the reaction isn't long enough, you just have freebase bufotenine (stage 1).

Freebase bufotenine and the stage 2 compound are very different from each other. No one would ever think they were the same psychedelic. For SWIM, the stage 2 compound is the best psychedelic there is, bar none. It's the most visual psychedelic there is, with no "mind fuck". In that way it's similar to bufotenine, but it doesn't feel anything like bufotenine. Visually it's like DMT, and totally unlike bufotenine. It's like a version of DMT that lasts 3 hours, is super euphoric, and doesn't cause any mind fuck. It's the perfect psychedelic. It works orally, but causes nausea orally.

Anyway, if any of you guys try it and succeed at it, you'll be shocked. For a while SWIM was trying hard to come up with a technique that always created the stage 2 compound. He tried and tried and tried. It seems to be sort of a random occurrence that SWIM can't nail down. The stage 2 compound happens somewhere between 2-6 hours of mixing with calcium hydroxide. You just have to do it many times and eventually, it will happen and you'll get the stage 2 compound. Right now SWIM has some of the stage 2 compound in a vial he made long ago. He also has pure white bufotenine crystals to compare it with. It is NOTHING like bufotenine.

I really wish someone would look into this.

All this playing around with freebase bufotenine is great, but once you've tried the stage 2 compound, you'll be amazed at just how much better it is. It's got no side effects (unless taken orally, in which case it causes nausea). It lasts as long as bufotenine does. It causes no mind fuck. It's extremely visual. It's extremely euphoric.

If SWIM knew how to make the stage 2 compound 100% of the time, he'd be one happy guy, and he'd be buying Vilca all the time. But as it is, making the stage 2 compound consistently is tough. There is no tech out there that I know of that makes it successfully all the time. I wish there was.
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damiana
#223 Posted : 11/24/2009 2:21:09 PM

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Doesn't it make sense that the stage 2 compound would be 5-O-DMT? SWIM tried to get freebase bufotenine but mostly failed. He will hopefully get some using a different tek, when he does he will experiment with calcium hydroxide. If the stage two compound is a good as it sounds, SWIM will be trying all he can to get a tek that could make it. This will be fun.

On a side point, to increase the effect of bufotenine, can the ~95% pure THH be active through smoking? If so what weight would make it active. Thanks.
PEACE
 
soulfood
#224 Posted : 11/24/2009 3:15:30 PM

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Possibly, but why not just try 40mg sublingual dosing?
 
damiana
#225 Posted : 11/24/2009 3:23:37 PM

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Hassle with the taste and all, when one could just add it to the freebase bufotenine to smoke.
PEACE
 
soulfood
#226 Posted : 11/24/2009 3:36:34 PM

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Well I haven't tried it myself, but I've read a report of someone getting strong effects from smkoing THH.
 
jamie
#227 Posted : 11/24/2009 4:36:53 PM

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there has to be something about the way that the natives prepare it...they use calcium hydroxide but not pure calcium hydroxide..they use ashes and burned shells etc..could the less impure form be helping them to create 5 O-DMT more reliably?..not hitting that third stage?
 
Phlux-
#228 Posted : 11/24/2009 5:32:08 PM

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hehe - made me think of the sumerian story of the creation of the solar system where things in the xtal petri dish werent working until some clay was added.

not what i was looking for but "
The birth of the human prototype
Belet-Ili asks that somebody brings her the purified clay.
Anunnaku immolate an Igigu to extract the spirit of his blood.
Belet-Ili kneads the clay in the blood of the God Igigu We.
Belet-Ili models the human prototype.
Belet-Ili distinguishes the man from the woman.
Gods give to men tools and the rumor of pullulation.
End."
antrocles wrote:
...purity of intent....purity of execution....purity of experience...

...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.


Quote:
‹Jorkest› the wall is impenetrable as far as i can tell


Quote:
‹xtechre› cheese is great


He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.

 
69ron
#229 Posted : 11/24/2009 7:23:44 PM

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fractal enchantment wrote:
there has to be something about the way that the natives prepare it...they use calcium hydroxide but not pure calcium hydroxide..they use ashes and burned shells etc..could the less impure form be helping them to create 5 O-DMT more reliably?..not hitting that third stage?


It’s possible. I think one key thing might be the pH. Maybe if the pH is just right, it can only take the conversion to stage 2 (unknown active alkaloid) and not stage 3 (likely dehydrobufotenine).

SWIM tried making the stage 2 alkaloid with sodium carbonate. It could not take it to stage 2 or 3. It would not work even after mixing for 24 hours, only freebase bufotenine remained. Sodium carbonate takes the pH to about 11.4 while calcium hydroxide takes the pH to about 12.4.

SWIM never tried sodium hydroxide (he doesn’t have it in the house for safety reasons).

Maybe a mix of calcium hydroxide and calcium carbonate would work better. It could be that at pH 12, it reaches stage 2, and doesn’t get to stage 3.

One problem is that I don’t know what’s actually happening to the bufotenine. No one seems to know. That makes it hard to figure out how to get it to stage 2 without going to stage 3. Is 5-HO-DMT becoming 5-O-DMT and then dehydrobufotenine? I have no idea. Shulgin believes that bufotenine becomes dehydrobufotenine when exposed to highly alkaline environments, so at least one professional chemist thinks this happens, so there’s a good likelihood of this part being correct. I’ve not seen any professional chemist talk about 5-O-DMT.

Maybe the stage 2 alkaloid is actually dehydrobufotenine and the stage 3 alkaloid is decomposed dehydrobufotenine?
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burnt
#230 Posted : 11/24/2009 8:03:15 PM

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what are the conditions for making the suspected stage 3 (dehydrobufotenin) alkaloid again?

SWIMs SWIM can give this another go at ID when there is time.
 
69ron
#231 Posted : 11/24/2009 8:13:43 PM

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burnt wrote:
what are the conditions for making the suspected stage 3 (dehydrobufotenin) alkaloid again?

SWIMs SWIM can give this another go at ID when there is time.


Mixing 200 mg of calcium hydroxide, 100 mg of freebase bufotenine, 10 ml of water, and 10 ml of 99% IPA for 24 hours makes the stage 3 compound. I don't know if the IPA is needed though. That's just how SWIM does it.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
jamie
#232 Posted : 11/25/2009 4:39:24 PM

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I had my best bufotenine experience yet last night. This batch was different..for one thing I really toasted the hell out of it in the last toast on the resin..until it was bubbling and vapor was comming off..and I doubled the ratio of maoi's compared to my last batch.

The excessive taosting made it seem like I could smoke more of it without barely any side effects..like maybe 1/3 the side effects I usually get..and I think the maoi's made it much more psychedelic mentally. This experience was very psychedelic mentally, and very visionary..almost identical to psilocybin..I have only drank aya with chaliponga so I cant really make the comparison there..maybe it was like aya with chacruna though..

The only way I could distinguish it from mushrooms was that with eyes open there was some flickering..but the body effects/mental effects and CEV were the same.

I had this really amazing visionary experience where I saw these things..these things that cannot exist here..like super technological hyperspcae toys..there was this one that I can't even really describe..it was spinning in some parts and shimmering with these jeweled and neon spirograph patterens..like some sort of circus toy..but there were many levels to it and it was almost like a ride..

As I was looking at this thing I was experiences very powerful waves of euphoria sort of comming off of it hitting me and shooting through my body and making me laugh quietly to myself incomplete ecstacy..like a cosmic orgasm..These objects are sooo out of this world..I kept thinking that I was actaully having something real similar to mckenna's trip..

At some point I became aware of another black and white striped/grid pattern to the right and behind me..I was not seeing it with my eyes but I knew it was there..and I could feel these shadowy beings in this pattern sort of playing trying to get my attention..this was very weird.. as I focussed on it the space literally opened up to me and what happened astonished me..I was seeing in full 360 degrees!

I could see this whole space behind me moving and pulsating with geometry and this other space infront of me..like a corridor going off to the front of me and another to the back of me..but thee was no more front and back..my mind was trying to make sense of this but couldnt..

Eventually I opened my eyes in the dark becasue this 360 degree vision was getting really weird, and it stopped when I opened them..

I went back in with eyes closed and saw some more really amazing things..these strange liguid memranes moving through hyperspace and into me, encoded with all sorts of intricate overlayed patterns within them..this went on for about 20 minutes at least accompanied by etreme bliss and euphoria..

One I got up and switched on the the light about an hour after dosing I realized that I was still quite gone..everythingn was clear and shimmering and I was very euphoric..and I kept spacing out and becomming confused..this sort of concerned me at first but I just came tot he conclusion that the added maoi's must have added an extra mental distortion to the expereince, and that I had been able to take such a high dose because I hadn't felt much side effects at all.. and I really started enjoying it..for the next hour I sat there feeling identical to the way psilocybin makes me feel..I had some nice profound thought and felt really good about everything..full of love.

The mental effects of this trip were really ideal..much more psychedelic than bufotenine at lower dose and without the higher dose of maoi's..it really was right up there with psilocybin..the euphoric mental effects in the second hour were perfect..beats anything I felt on acid, mescaline, MDMA, morning glories..even ayahuasca brews..I have only had 1 ayahuasca trip that compares..I need to drink with chacruna though still..

I hope that these effects are due to the ratios of maoi's to bufotene of this batch..becasue this is the perfect psychedelic for me..right up alongside DMT and psilocybin..these 3 are all I would ever need.
 
Crisp
#233 Posted : 11/27/2009 3:57:51 AM
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Hi Fractal Enchantment, could you please do me a favour and outline the exact steps that you are using to get to your final product, with times and temperatures, etc?
Also, how necessary is the MAOI?
Thanks
 
jamie
#234 Posted : 11/27/2009 5:56:41 AM

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I would definatily use an MAOI with it..the tribe that is known for making the strongest yopo always uses cappi in their yopo prep..they are known by all the neighbouring tribes for being master yopo makers.

Check the Wiki..jorkest wrote it up here..
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m..._and_Bufojam_Changa_Tek

The only thing I dont do is add any DMT to the mix, becasue I am exploring bufotenine as is traditionally used along with caapi right now..If I feel I need to go deeper I just take more bufotenine..but I have smoked DMT along with it before and it was quite powerful.
 
jamie
#235 Posted : 11/28/2009 5:47:01 PM

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I tried a bit of a variation on the iso tek yesterday..

I toasted 40 seeds, ground them to a powder..

Instead of freebasing and toasting again I did 2 boils in water and vinegar on the seeds for 30 minutes each, strained and reduced..poured the infused, reduced water out on a plate in front of a heater and when it was getting sort of thick I added some sodium carbonate and stirred..

I also took the remaining seed powder and put it in a jar(without freebasing it) and covered it in 99% iso to do 1 iso pull on it..and I will freebase that after.

The stuff I poured out on the plate I scraped up this morning and it seems to have pulled out way more stuff than when I do just iso pulls..like alot more..I am not sure how much of it is sodium carbonate but I know I got more out of the seeds than usual. I next pull bufotenine from this stuff with iso..and then add the other iso pull to that after I base it..then evap it all and do the rest of the tek like normal..

I know for sure that the iso tek was not pulling all the bufotenine with only 2 or 3 pulls becasue I pulled from seeds that I had already used and still got bufotenine out of them..so maybe 6 pulls would do it but it seems a waste of iso to do all that if I can get more by doing a acid water boil first..

I did the same with the caapi as well..a acid water boil first, reduced and freebased and evapped, and then 1 extra iso pull on the caapi..and I will freebase the stuff from that pull, add it to the evapped and based tea and pick it all back up with iso..

I wont be testing it till next week becasue I am still not finished yet and have some left from my last batch but I have a strong feeling that it will be alot stronger than what I was getting before..


 
jamie
#236 Posted : 12/2/2009 2:39:59 AM

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Shocked Shocked Shocked ...I think I did it this time..god I'm happy to even be alive this time!

I think I overdosed on bufotenine!...this was a new batch..and it was a different prep..the one I posted above..

I smoked 3 full bowls in about 3-4 minutes..like an idiot because I wasnt feeling much right away..I should havve known better..

I lay back and closed my eyes and instantly was having crazy intricate lazer beam style spirograph like visuals filling up my visual field..and then swirling and then I felt like I was moving through hypespace and I got extremely dizzy..but not like the vasoconstriction dizzy, this was similar to times when I ate 5 grams of more of mushrooms..

I sat up because I couldnt handle it..and opened my eyes but there was no relief..the visuals were literlly rebulding my room in the dark..my walls becoming flashing and vibrating geometric symbols..it was frickin amazing but I was afraid..it was everywhere and I felt like I was getting sucked out of my self very literally in a way I have never felt with any other tryptamine..and I thought I was dying..I dunno why panick mode set in, my heart was racing and I had the worse feeling of impending doom, pure dred..

I told myself to shut up and go with it..so I lay back down and closed my eyes and got sucked away into the geometry..luckily the intense overwheling part only lasted about 3 minutes and then died down to a controllable feeling that was pleasant with some real interesting visuals and some visions. I saw this veil I cannot really describe other than it was liquid, a few inched thick maybe and had shimmering geometric symbols moving inside of it, some morphing mandalas and other alien like things I can only call machines...

The after glow is niceWink
 
soulfood
#237 Posted : 12/2/2009 3:44:29 AM

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That certainly sounds a lot like jumping in at the deep end.

I guess it speaks well for your methods at least Smile

again?
 
jamie
#238 Posted : 12/2/2009 3:56:31 AM

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yeah I think I just smoked too much at once..it was like being hit by an unexpecting tidal wave..

It's much smoother when I wait a bit longer inbetween doses.
 
damiana
#239 Posted : 12/2/2009 4:05:40 AM

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So would you say the newer tek has less nausea? Also was the new tek (after the final IPA pull) pulling lighter (in color) bufotenine as the end product? Did the new tek have a baking step, or did the boil count as a bake? Would you say the new tek was more potent? Or would you say you may have smoked more maoa and bufotenine?
PEACE
 
jamie
#240 Posted : 12/2/2009 4:26:52 AM

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I think it was a bit more potent..not alot though..

It wasnt any lighter in the end..I did toast the seeds yeah and and the evaporation but I skipped the 3rd toast I was doing before..I dont think there was less nausea..about the same.. well there was lots of nausea on this lst trip from taking it all at once..but it was more "cyber sickness" fral the fast moving visuals and I felt like I was getting sucked into hyperspace..but no it had about the same ammount of side effects as the normal iso tek.
 
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