In my experience, shrooms can give DMT-like breakthroughs if taken in the right amounts. There are differences though. Shrooms feel less confronting somehow, less intimidating. I find that compared to shrooms, DMT has a deeper psychological impact.
On the other hand, i find that breakthrough doses of shrooms are visually more powerfull. They are a little more colourfull, visually.

I've been meaning to ask you about this, Polytrip- what shrooms do you recommend for this?

SWIM has shied away from shrooms after a (psychologically) strong cubensis experience when he felt tired and couldn't stop his eyes closing, but he was seriously worried that if he fell asleep he would cease to exist- he thought if he lost consciousness he might not regain it ever again, as if existence itself may depend on his consciousness. He knew nothing. A friend had to talk him through it. This completely puts him off going deep with shrooms- the thought of hours and hours in a hyperspace state, but without the DMT loveshower, and instead with that shroomy freaky know-nothing edginess instead. He can imagine deep shrooming becoming hours of psychological hell on earth. A couple of friends have locked themselves in toilets on shrooms, another ran deep into the jungle to cry and scream! Shrooms seem to not agree with some people. Given SWIM's previous bad experience, would you recommend him just staying away from shrooms? Or will his subsequent aya, DMT, salvinorin A and cactus experiences have prepared him better for mindmelt? He has taken cubensis three times and Thai twice... cubensis always had an undercurrent of unnerving freakiness in between the laughs.

I voted yes because it was the same in terms of intensity and submergence but as we all know mushrooms are a very different animal. It was on one of those complete death trips aroud the sort of time you think "ok, this is it" then before I know it there are angels all around me, bathed in white light, but they were made up of a collage of everything that I would miss in my everyday reality. My memory of the whole thing is quite sketchy, but it was a very profound life changing experience. It's so interesting to reveal your dying thoughts to yourself

That's odd. i find shrooms always to be friendlier then DMT. The reason i like DMT is that it's so deeply confronting and mercyless, but that's also why i have a deep respect for it and why i wouldn't use it too often.
Maybe this is different for other people.

Anyway, i find the p.azurescens the best for mindblowing journeys and most of the cubensis strains less apropriate for real breakthrough experiences.
The cyanescens is also very good.

These two shrooms are named after a colour of blue, wich is not a coincidence. I guess that basically, the more a type of shroom turns blue when touched, the more potent it is.

Thanks. Maybe one day in SWIM's life he'll try a full-on p.azurescens experience... if he can pluck up the courage!

I voted no but you can discount it if you like as SWIM hasn't eaten the right shrooms to date. SWIM hasn't found shrooms to be anywhere near as visual as DMT. He took 23g of fresh cubensis when he had the bad experience, is that a lot or a little?

A high dose of mushrooms put me in a very similar space to DMT, and is my favourite teacher plant/chemical experience I have so far encountered...only much softer, warmer and friendlier than the 'unrelenting, ferocious, beautiful terror' of a pure DMT flash...interesting ohayhoco that this is the opposite of your experience (but we are all individuals and react differently to these things I guess). I think DMT use has made me, if anything, slightly more sensitive to the visual aspects of mushrooms.

Cubensis mushrooms are actually, weight for weight, some of the least potent/visual mushrooms going...its just they are so damn easy to grow. However they can be unreliable in terms of the experience they provide, in terms of potency (don't retain potency well when dried), and some people tend to get more physical and mental side effects than with other species...compared to thers I have tried, I would say cubensis give quite a muddy, cloudy high...

Very different to cubensis is the much more potent Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens...my favourite species so far...gives a very powerful, visionary, 'tropical' colourful experience...very crystalline and clear, clean and lucid...straight to the point. Despite their potency, I have never had a weird experience with these...cubensis can be a bit darker and more unpredictable, and can sometimes really get their tendrils into the emotional centres of your brain. The only time I have encountered one of the infamous entities, and encontered a state very much akin to nirvana, has been on these mushrooms.

Other good species include Psilocybe semilanceata (native here in the UK, so you can pick your own), and ones I have yet to try...Psilocybe mexicana, P. azurescens and P. cyanescens. And with mushrooms, I have definitely found (where feasible) fresh is best.

But they certainly aren't for eveyone...some people just don't click with the fungus.

SWIM did enjoy the fungus much of the time, he's just concerned about going deeper because of that one experience, and the overall freaky undercurrent that tells him it could easily happen worse again. Shrooms are not relaxing!


So, I guess from what you guys are saying, shrooms are most like DMT when there's a ratio of between roughly 4:1 and 3:1 psilocybin : psylocin? Actually, p.semilanceata has virtually no psilocin, so if that's like DMT as Banconoma says too then maybe its just psilocybin that does it, and maybe you want as little psilocin as possible? Cyanescens which you guys say is DMT-like hardly has any baeocystin in it whereas azurenscens has quite a bit so that chemical doesn't seem to affect whether the shroom is DMT-like or not? By comparison, cubensis has a ration of 1:1 psilocybin : psilocin (and very little baeocystin), and is not considered good by you guys and SWIM thinks is more mental than visual. Banconoma says that cubensis is indeed edgier, so could it be the psilocin that doesn't agree with SWIM, and that he would like semilanceata (liberty caps) the most?

Which in this list are the Thai ones (the ones that they serve you in an omlette on Ko Pah Nang, big brown ones)?

[EDIT: haha, but Erowid says psilocybin is metabolised into psilocybin, so what's the difference what the mix is? And how much baeocystin seems to not make a difference if cyanescens are considered good, so is the variety of mushroom irrelevent towards achieving a DMT-like state and is it really just down to dose? Or are there other chemicals at work that people who write lists like the one above overlook?]

Each type has it's own character. All the alkaloids play a role in the total mixture. But apparently it's more complex then just relating quality to one peticular substance.

I also think that there might be other, non-tryptamine mycotoxins in some type of shrooms like the cubensis, that make the experience just less pleasant. Some people, inlcuding myself experience (a little)nausea with cubensis, but not with other types.

And maybe there are just more psychedelic tryptamine's in them then we know of.

Psilocybin is indeed metabolized into psilocin, but as it has to go through that metabolic route, the onset of psilocybin is a bit slower than that of psilocin.

Psilocybin can not even enter the brain, as the phosphate group makes it too polar to penetrate the blood-brain-barrier.

So when you eat shrooms, the psilocin hits you first, and the psilocybin hits you later after it gets metabolized into psilocin. Thus, mushrooms with high psilocin content have a faster onset.

We also have to remember that there might be tons of other alkaloids in mushrooms which may contribute to the trip, despite not being active by themselves. And all the different mushroom species might have different mixtures of these alkaloids. Who knows. The differences in the subjective effects of mushrooms certainly gives reason to assume so. But one also has to remember that set & setting and individual differences, mental and physical ones, play a huge part in the effects of all psychedelics.

I can relate so much to this.
I must say though, and i think many people on the nexus will understand this, that it is exactly that 'unrelenting, ferocious, beautyfull terror' you mention, that makes DMT so incredibly valuable, psychologically.
Shrooms are more suitable if you just want to have a good time. DMT is too mercyless for that.

True. But overall, I would say the mushrooms have been more valuable to me, personally. They can be very playful, and very serious at times...but they are very interactive, unlike DMT, which I like.

IME rue gives the mushroom trip more depth and spirituality. Try taking 5g rue with 7-10g dried cubensis and see if you can find that "beautiful terror"...

I voted yes. I love mushrooms and experienced many psilio breakthroughs before ever trying spice. I read mckenna all the time and would take large doses with another friend at night in the dark all the time. I think psilocybin is the most visual substance I have ever experienced..I am in love with spice, and it's been a while since I have eated mushrooms, but I think that the visuals become apparent at lower doses with mushrooms whereas with DMT I dont get anything near the complexity of closed eye mushroom visuals until I get into a higher dose..then spice is amazingly visual..but also has more of a dissociated/mindwarp feeling..

It seems we have quite a few experienced shroomers on this thread and so i think it would be a good place to ask a question which i have been wondering about recently.

Can any of you tell me of expereinces youve had where there was a "dialogue" between you and the mushroom.
This is something i have heard of but have not experienced myself.
Just wondered if there was a paticular variety that are easier to "talk" to, or whether it only occurred at higher doses or whatever.
A friend has suggested that to prehaps increase the likelihood of "contact" that I should consume them in a dark quiet room. This shall be my next experiement : )

Well, this is a personal thing. I have not felt such a contact myself. But i have also never felt such a contact with the mescaline spirit or cactus spirit, while this is apparently a common thing.

I have "communicated" with the mushroom. They don't directly "talk" to you in their head. They seem to manifest thoughts in your head, so that you have thoughts that do not feel your own...

That was gonna be my next question.
So, if you ask a question, it will answer it, but in your own thoughts?

Last time SWIM ate mushrooms the visuals seemed to resemble that of a DMT trip, more so than any other mushroom experience he has ever had. He ate 2 grams of Thai Cubensis, along with 40mg of sublingual THH. He was staring into the sky, which had become an interactive Alex Grey painting.

I absolutely love shrooms and have had countless trips both bad and good. But mostly good ones
But I have only tried the Liberty Caps 'cause they grow in abundance around where I live every fall (actually the season is just about to start here )
The Lib Caps have a high amound of baeocystin so I'd like to try some strain that is very low in baeocystin to see the difference and what role baeocystin play's in the trip.

I'm planning to grow some other strains soon to check the difference.

A study by MAPS that may be of interest;

Listening for the Logos: a study of reports of audible voices at high doses of psilocybin;

http://www.maps.org/news...ters/v07n1/07112bea.html